[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by Shiv_1984

Well, I am forced to make one last (I promise) comment here.
Neither I am contradicting myself nor I am supporting you. The intention is not to be against you or for that matter anyone but to make my point clear.

Even if you mentioned you are not going to reply, I also will make my point clear. Moreover, we all are not against each other, but are part of this great community and just expressing our views. Isn't it?

Originally Posted by Shiv_1984

Do you think only Maruti and Hyundai make good cars and other don't ?

Ofcourse not. But why maruti is not able to sell ritz in good numbers nowadays? Why wagonr and celerio is a success while estilo and a-star failed? Why hyundai struggling with old i10? Why the same honda who sells city in 5k+ per month is struggling with most other models?

Originally Posted by Shiv_1984

Totally agree but when you don't have the brand value and you don't have the reach as your competition, you are not competing at all.

Take the example of Renault Kwid. Even without the brand value of Ford and with small reach, it is competing successfully with the so called 'superbrands'! Why?

As I mentioned, the recipe for success of a model is usually a combination of many things. If it is just brand and reach, all the models from those 'superbrands' should sell, and all models from 'minorbrands' should not sell. That is my point.

If there is a single recipe for success, it is the looks. Can it be combined with a 'no competition' scenario? It will be a super success.

[VRPAI]

Originally Posted by Shiv_1984

I may not have an as educated automotive mindset as other members here but I am surprised to see this Figo twins bashing for no reason. What are we crying for ?

1. Steering being too light ?
2. Bad on road manners ?
3. Not as expected Built Quality ?
4. Less features ?
5. Pricing or VFM ?

Let's take the best seller from the segment. The SWIFT..

To summarize, Figo twins are excellent products and do they deserve better numbers? Hell Yes.

Cheers.. Shiv

What you've said is true. They definitely do deserve better numbers.
And ironically the reasons you said work against the Figo to be honest. The figo is now similar to the Swift and not similar to the Ford's of yesteryears or the Ecosport. Yes the figo is better than the Swift, does it stand out from the competition like the old figo?,maybe not.
Certain cars sell for their USP and the figo doesn't have that USP anymore. Imagine if Fiat launched a car similar to the blockbuster Swift, no one would even consider it and may sell lesser than the Punto itself You buy a Fiat for their USP's, I guess it's the same for the Ford's. "If your car is similar to the mass product makers, wouldn't it be a safer bet to buy the established brands?", I guess this would be the way the people must be thinking.


Just my two cents

[drhoneycake]

Drove my friend's new figo and I must say its an absolutely brilliant car. Well packaged, VFM, great handler (compared to the competition) and a terrific Diesel engine. But what it lacks with respect to the competition is features like auto folding mirrors, dimming IRVMs, projector headlamps, smart looking alloys and dreadful interiors (what most people are looking for in a new vehicle).

Why it doesn't sell as much as Maruti and Hyundai is all the above reasons that you guys mentioned plus the lack of interest in the ford guys to sell their car. I feel that would be the primary reason. Terrible showroom experience and the lack of willingness to sell their product. I have seen this even when I was looking to buy a C2 segment sedan. 1 test drive of the fiesta diesel and I was sold.

Too bad they weren't a least bit interested in selling the car to me, they kept pushing the ecosport despite my firm demands that I wanted a Fiesta TDCi. Did not follow up my requests and ultimately I had to move elsewhere (Read: Maruti and Hyundai).

They've got to improve their sales and marketing if they want to compete with Maruti and Hyundai. Since their cars are great, I guess their sore point would be sales and marketing.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Team-BHP

[drsingh]

Its the Baleno effect. It has messed up a lot of rivals' plans.

A slight premium paid for the Baleno will be made up by higher resale value.

Ford needs to come up with fantastic finance options ( low interest /interest free EMI'S), Service packages, etc.

And a stronger marketing push. There just seems to be no effort. I see Maruti canopies in the suburbs all the time. Or in front of bank branches in small towns. The new Ford dealership in my area has done nothing in comparison. No billboards of the new car around the town either.

It seems like Ford is happy with exports for now.

[RaghuVis]

Thanks a lot for the numbers Aditya! Was out of town for a week and had no access to Internet.
The number drop for Alto is a double edged sword for MSIL. While it allowed the production numbers of Brezza and Baleno to go up, it brought the numbers game with KWID to a realistic competition which they have not allowed till now. Since MSIL total production has not suffered much, am sure they are laughing their way to bank since the profit from Baleno/Brezza is always much higher than Alto. With the Gujarat plant still far from commissioning, tough days ahead for MSIL to balance the production. The problem with MSIL is that most of their cars are selling quite exceptionally well with the exception of one or two. Take any other car maker, they have cars whose production can be cut considerably to accommodate a car in demand. MSIL has 14 cars where the only cars selling below average numbers is Gypsy/Ritz. The next in line car maker Hyundai has only 10 cars and there are at least 3-4 cars which are not selling well. Apart from Swift/Dzire/Alto, MSIL cannot afford to reduce production of other cars be it Ciaz/Ertiga/S-Cross/Wagon R. I think MSIL has played it very well with reducing production of Alto since there is a new version coming soon so they can afford to sell less numbers. They just have to make sure that their numbers don't reach close to Kwid.

[jpcoolguy]

Just realized that Maruti's market share gone beyond 49% and to my knowledge I think this is the first time in the last 4-5 years. They have been assaulting all the brands with their new launches and all have been success stories till now.

I think once the Ignis hit the roads, Maruti will be having more than 50% of the market share and will maintain that in the future as well - undisputed market leader.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by jpcoolguy

I think once the Ignis hit the roads, Maruti will be having more than 50% of the market share and will maintain that in the future as well - undisputed market leader.

There is a major threat for Maruti - in the form of Kwid. If Renault increases the production of Kwid to, say, 15K per month, the Alto numbers will fall again, and the extra numbers they are getting from Baleno, Brezza and Ignis need to make up for this fall, IMO. So, a sudden surge in Maruti's market share is a distant possibility.

[adityadeva]

While tata tiago has a 0 number of cars sold in march , 3200 units have been sold in april, its is not even listed in top gainers in the top spot. Why, the same was not included. the omission seems deliberate!!!

[RSR]

Originally Posted by adityadeva

Why, the same was not included. the omission seems deliberate!!!

Relax! The most probable reason is that the Tiago was treated as a new introduction in the month of April. A new addition would not be put in the top gainer's list as the base (previous month's sales upon which the gains happened) is zero for a new launch. The MoM gain % would tend to become infinity for all new additions, as the denominator is zero.

I guess this is the reason why Aditya doesn't include new launches in the top gainer's list.

Of course, the question would then arise as to why the Tiago was counted as a new introduction in April when dispatches started back in February. This is because Tata dispatched Zicas to dealers back in February, but completely stopped the dispatches in March due to the re-naming process (Zica --> Tiago). Hence, for all practical purposes (including the 0 dispatches in March) the Tiago was considered as launched in April.

This is also indirectly spelt out in Note no. 2 below the tables and charts:

Only cars that sell 500+ units (and thus, the relevant ones) have been included in the gainers & losers chart.

[shobhitk]

Thanks Aditya for the wonderful analysis and presentation. It always provokes all of us to have a closer look at the health of the automotive industry.


In last few years, there has been great activity in automotive industry with frequent launches of new cars as well as updated models of the existing cars, with certain added benefits in terms of performance.


Interestingly, on one side, many existing models like i20, Eon, Bolero, Scorpio, XUV 500, Alto, Dzire. Swift, WagonR, Omini, Ertiga, Innova etc. kept their firm grip on the market despite new launches and on the other side many recent entrants like EcoSport, Creta, i10 Grand, Kwid, Celario, Xcent, KUV100, Baleno, Vitara Brezza etc. made their presence felt in the overcrowded auto market.


Curious is the case of Ritz, which long back, at the time of the launch, was received in the market with great welcome but the apathy on the part of Maruti has wilted/dwarfed this amazing car. Despite the step motherly treatment to this car by Maruti, this car refuses to bow down. While all the car makers still make all out efforts to popularise their cars, Ritz hardly finds any place in the Ad-Blitz launched by Maruti.


Just one glance at the table below makes it clear that despite Maruti maintaining a low profile towards Ritz, it is still doing so well as compared to many great new and old established cars.




Ritz is definitely a very comfortable and pushy car. Maruti must realise that:-

• Ritz is still preferred, more than many other famous cars.
• Ritz is the only car which despite being a hatchback, gives a feel of mini-SUV on account of its unique design.
• If it is not properly upgraded, other cars struggling to have a foothold in this segment will fill-up the vacant slot.
• Ritz has been able to do so well despite ZERO efforts/publicity by Maruti.
• Unceremonial departure of such a great car would send wrong signals even for the new cars launched by Maruti.

Maruti, I hope you are listening.

[jpcoolguy]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

There is a major threat for Maruti - in the form of Kwid. If Renault increases the production of Kwid to, say, 15K per month, the Alto numbers will fall again, and the extra numbers they are getting from Baleno, Brezza and Ignis need to make up for this fall, IMO. So, a sudden surge in Maruti's market share is a distant possibility.

I do think that the Alto's drop in numbers are may be due to impending facelift, rather than Kwid's effect. Renault need to expand their dealer network in the Tier 2/3 cities if they have to de-throne Alto.

So, if Alto goes back to 22K levels from next month, there is a good possibility that Maruti may breach the 50% market share.

[shobhitk]

Originally Posted by autobahnjpr

Toyota has been respected for their out of box strategy and product and market placement. They pulled out Qualis when it was a runaway success and replaced it with costlier Innova. But if there was a critical time for them in the Indian Market, it is now. Toyota has been a leader in D and above segments with a clear lead. With time, cars have become expensive. And both the top sellers of Toyota are now entering with new versions and in costlier avatar. Innova starts at appx. 14 lakhs and goes upto 20.7 lakh and new Fortuner would be upward 30 lakh+ is my guess.
So, will the taxi segment prefer a 15 lakh vehicle or an alternative?
And will Fortuner find buyers with its new pricing which is nearing the territory of German Luxury brands?

Maruti has made sure it has world class offering in the 3 lakh to 15 lakh range where the maximum buyers and maximum sales are there and the only worthy competitor is Hyundai. With Brezza, S-Cross, Ciaz and Baleno, Maruti has made sure that they are relevant for next 2-3 years.

Honda is staring at bad days ahead. Their products are not premium and their quality is not rock solid. I am skeptical of success of BRV going by the past experience of Mobilio. The only shining start is City and it is only because of the past success and brand perception of the model. Their all new launches have not been successful in the long run be it jazz or mobilio.

good assessment.
praising a costly, feature rich car is one thing and buying it with your hard earned money is some thing different. Maruti had realized their mistake when they had launched Versa at higher price. right pricing of Brezza is the correct strategy to challenge Ecosport and Creta, the current favorites.

The presumption that there is no place for any new brand or a car maker 'with not so large' base of service network, is no longer true. Kwid makes every car maker realise that the consumer is always attentive and receptive to 'new' and 'consumer friendly' initiatives. Now it is for Renault to live up to the expectations of the people.

[VRPAI]

Originally Posted by shobhitk

Unceremonial departure of such a great car would send wrong signals even for the new cars launched by Maruti.[/list] Maruti, I hope you are listening.

Do you own a Ritz by any chance?

The Ritz, am sure has a lot of practicality going for it and that's sadly where it ends . The newer cars are better built, offer better safety(arguable in case of Maruthi) and definitely better looking.
Mini-SUV ? No way bro!. It's just a tallboy hatchback. Going by that analogy, the Santro,the old i10, the Wagon-R are all mini SUV's which in my opinion is incorrect.

Coming to the sales
1.Realy sad to see a figure of 11 Abarth cars. That's realy a shame for such an awesome car. Hope someday Fiat gets their act together.
2.How on earth does Hyundai manage such sales for Creta and i20?!. I guess people do indeed look at quality these days and Hyundai at the moment are at the top of their game.
3.Maruthi just makes cars and people buy them. Whatever the argument is on about their safety and their build quality-"If it's a Maruthi it'll sell".Sad to see this to be honest. I am still someone who doesn't like their build quality
4.What's with the Bolero figures going down a bit?. It's the car of choice for many in tier 2 cities,rural areas and construction firms. They just love their Bolero's.
5.Sad to see the figures for the Figo, but Ford just skipped on the "Ford"-Ness of the figo twins I guess.Still a brilliant proposition in the segment to be honest.

Pretty sad to see Fiat and BMW not doing well. BMW seems to be in the right direction now, and hope something dramatic happens at Fiat cos they make beautiful and lively cars.

Just my two cents

[shobhitk]

Originally Posted by VRPAI

Do you own a Ritz by any chance?

Nice assessment. Anyways, Fiat is doing so well by selling their STAR ENGINE to Maruti. Maruti through some hard work, some amazing assessment of the people's choice and some hard built reputation is using best use of the Fiat engines.

[SPARKled]

I own a Maruti Ritz Vdi and IMHO it is a nice reliable car but nothing beyond that. I really don't understand the Maruti mania in India. Yes the dealers are scared of Maruti and a single complaint there has them scurrying and calling you up to resolve that, but beyond that all Maruti ASCs atleast the few here in Navi Mumbai are always full and more often than not, just too crowded and gives me a bhaji market feeling where I am just another customer and there is no valued customer feeling and to get a service adviser attention out of line is a huge chore. Yes touch wood I haven't had to get anything major repaired or touched but I can imagine that in all that rush where its tough to get even a weekend slot for servicing, any major work to get done will be challenging.

Compared this to my Ford dealer, where they are ready to listen and accommodate me on a weekend service slot and even the few times that I just went to get rid of a noise or get something adjusted, I was well served. On top of that my Figo TDCi has cheaper maintenance bills than my Ritz and is such a wonderful drive.

I really don't understand the mass hysteria of Maruti products. they are all competitive but nowhere as good as the numbers seem to suggest. Just IMHO.