[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Customer : hey, I wanna buy a Polo.
SA : Sure Sir. We have[list][*]Polo 1.2[*]Polo 1.5[*]Polo GT TSi[*]Polo GT TDi[*]Polo Allstar[*]Cross Polo[*]GTi[*]Polo 1.4 TSi

I guess VW in not ready to do major investment in Indian market. Not to forget about Ameo, Vento and Rapid too on sale which is based on the same platform ( around 8 years old).

VW is lazy to get new products, but very enthusiastic to keep tweaking the existing line up.

Fiat is not even serious about selling cars and after sales support. Indian market is mature now and cannot be taken for granted. Get a good product combined with after sales support, Indians are ready to put their money ( Innova Crysta for example).

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by d_himan

As an enthusiast, I’d rather have 4 engines across 1 vehicle than 2 engines across 8 vehicles! The same old K Series 1.2 and 1.3 DDiS in Swift, Dzire, Ritz, Ertiga, S Cross, Baleno, Ignis, Ciaz with “special variants” limited to decals, seat covers, door foot sills and door mats anyone?

I guess you forgot to add the latest sensation; the mighty tighty 'Vitara Brezza'

So this way, we have a single block doing job in 9 vehicles. When it comes to numbers, it should come out to be around 10 lac examples of this block being installed into some 'S' badged car in India per year.

Any ways, this may sound a bit too optimistic, I guess there is a probability of a manual transmission too. GT badged cars can be automatic and Polo badged ones to be manual. Being a 5 door Polo, there is a possibility of minimizing production costs by part sharing and using the 1.4 TSi + manual box. This will be a perfect enthusiast's machine by being:
1) Quick
2) Reliable (No DSG)
3) Affordable (as compared to GTi)

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I guess VW in not ready to do major investment in Indian market. Not to forget about Ameo, Vento and Rapid too on sale which is based on the same platform ( around 8 years old).

VW is lazy to get new products, but very enthusiastic to keep tweaking the existing line up.

I don't think it's laziness inasmuch as VW's inability to meet certain lofty expectations and unrealistic goals that they had set for themselves.

VW had addressed the press and categorically stated that they had failed to make the impact that they had hoped to make and had also failed to meet their targets. After having invested large sums in setting up manufacturing units/assembly lines, they assumed that they'd dance with the big guns (Maruti and Hyundai).

VW is presumably not inclined to invest large amounts as they'd done before. Ergo, the MQB Polo may never come to India and what we'll get is a heavily revised/reskinned Polo based on the current platform. Not the worst thing, IMO.

Coming back to the topic, the 180 TSI may just be the new iteration of the 1.2 TSI. Since the current 1.2 TSI is being phased out and imports have stopped (a member had made this observation in another thread), the replacement 1.2 TSI may be labelled '180 TSI'.

Why? Well..

One could assume that the naturally aspirated 1.2 MPI engine is also being shown the door and the new 1.0 3-cylinder TSI engine may replace it. Accordingly, the nomenclature for that will be the torque-figure on paper.

It is unlikely that this is the '180 horsepower' TSI as the suspension will have to be heavily revised and the battery will have to be relocated, not to mention larger brakes, bucket seats, et al. All of this will be too much of an investment for VW and will also destroy any hope of them trying to sell the GTI.

[reignofchaos]

This actually might be the 81kW/112ps 1.2 TSI DOHC engine. It makes exactly 180Nm of torque.

Don't get your hopes too high folks! This engine is probably just a replacement for the existing GT TSI.

[rageshgr]

If it is going to be the 1.4 TSI with even 140-150 BHP, I am really excited about it. It will be a worthy competitor to the Abarth. The same engine as the Jetta/Audi A3/Audi A4 in a 12 lac bracket! Now that is quite something. But, I really doubt if VW will croud the Polo line up with 3 TSI's.

Guess what, I have even bad news. The 180 TSI has even a variant less poweful than the current GT TSI. It produces 160 Nm and 90 PS

Check out this link http://www.vw.com.hk/en/models/new_p...res_specs.html

So it could be current GT TSI's replacement or even the 1.2 MPI's replacement

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by rageshgr

Guess what, I have even bad news. The 180 TSI has even a variant less poweful than the current GT TSI. It produces 160 Nm and 90 PS

So it could be current GT TSI's replacement or even the 1.2 MPI's replacement

This probably might be the most sensible explanation. The car does look like the normal polo from the alloys not the GT. So maybe this engine is destined for the petrol manual polo.

[rageshgr]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

This probably might be the most sensible explanation. The car does look like the normal polo from the alloys not the GT. So maybe this engine is destined for the petrol manual polo.

Yes and we could have:
180 Nm/112 PS engine for the GT TSI
160 Nm/90 PS engine for the normal petrol

This will solve the long looming Achilles heal of the petrol Polo. Engine not being powerful enough. Also they need to maintain the hardware for only one engine, just like the diesel range. Only the mapping and minor components will be different

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

This actually might be the 81kW/112ps 1.2 TSI DOHC engine. It makes exactly 180Nm of torque.

Don't get your hopes too high folks! This engine is probably just a replacement for the existing GT TSI.

Originally Posted by rageshgr

Guess what, I have even bad news. The 180 TSI has even a variant less poweful than the current GT TSI. It produces 160 Nm and 90 PS

Check out this link http://www.vw.com.hk/en/models/new_p...res_specs.html

So it could be current GT TSI's replacement or even the 1.2 MPI's replacement

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

This probably might be the most sensible explanation. The car does look like the normal polo from the alloys not the GT. So maybe this engine is destined for the petrol manual polo.

Originally Posted by rageshgr

Yes and we could have:
180 Nm/112 PS engine for the GT TSI
160 Nm/90 PS engine for the normal petrol

Well, this is exactly what I'd said:

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Coming back to the topic, the 180 TSI may just be the new iteration of the 1.2 TSI. Since the current 1.2 TSI is being phased out and imports have stopped (a member had made this observation in another thread), the replacement 1.2 TSI may be labelled '180 TSI'.

Why? Well..

One could assume that the naturally aspirated 1.2 MPI engine is also being shown the door and the new 1.0 3-cylinder TSI engine may replace it. Accordingly, the nomenclature for that will be the torque-figure on paper..

Will this '180 TSI' retain the GT nomenclature? The mules in the spy-shots don't have the 'GT' badges at the back.

[nakul0888]

I think this must be VW's take on Audi's way of naming cars based on performance like 35tdi, 60tfsi and so on.

[heydj]

If a question comes in exams about Polo I am sure to flunk, how many variations are going to be there.

VW must be quite bullish about premium hatchback market with people willing to spend 12+, maybe they have some statistics that we don't.

On a side note lets hope they do make some distinguishing characters on Polo to tell it apart from other variants.

[landcruiser123]

What is the badge is simply to mislead us?

I think the Polo 1.4 TSi has immense potential, provided it's priced well. VW just deserves an award for the maximum number of facelifts in any model.

[printh]

12 - 13 lakhs for the 150 HP machine is worthy, if it had better dynamics and brakes to cope with the power. I think the 180 TSI nomenclature is something for budget cars, like their recent nomenclature change based on acceleration/ G- force in premium cars.

Anyone has idea about launch of all-new Polo in India? I think it will not be before 2018/ 10 years of the existing model. Going by the S-Cross`s size, Golf in all kinds of existing power outputs will be good option to launch. VW brand image will be enough to pull customers.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Ergo, the MQB Polo may never come to India and what we'll get is a heavily revised/reskinned Polo based on the current platform. Not the worst thing, IMO.

The Polo of Theseus perhaps?

Never have an all new Polo but keep changing all its parts and pose philosophical conundrums to Indian car enthusiasts :P

[anshumandun]

We are seeing 2 extremes of how companies are trying to grow or increase sales.

One is this VW way where they keep one body type and keep adding or updating engine and transmission options. To an enthusiast, this is perfect. We get to experience new technology at relatively lower cost and VW builds a brand image of a technology oriented company that focuses more on development of engine than the outer body. But this comes at a cost: Reliability! With ever evolving technology, by the time an engine or transmission gets over its initial fiddles and become rock solid reliable, it is already near to getting replaced with something new.

The other is the Maruti approach as pointed out by d_himan. Take a tried and tested super reliable engine and use it across it’s range of vehicles. This will surely appeal more to the common man who looks for reliability and efficiency more than anything else. And then there is the option to get the engine in hatchback, sedan, MUV and SUV style. What more a common man can ask! Honda tried this approach with the 1.5 iDTec engine in Amaze, City, Mobilio, BRV but have not been so successful.

I am happy with the VW way of trying to make their niche in the Indian market. Had VW also tried to copy Maruti approach, we would have never gotten a chance to experience the fun of driving a TSI-DSG combination at a reasonable price in India (GT TSI)!

[avinash_clt]

As previously mentioned, most likely they are testing the EA211 series of 1.2TSI engines in the Polo (badged 180 TSI in some other markets).

Adding some info on EA211 series engines:

EA211 is a significantly different engine, which is lighter, smaller, more efficient and has many key differences compared to the EA111 series. The information provided from the Wiki page, pretty accurate too when checked with parts catalogues and diagrams

The EA211 engines are a completely new four-cylinder turbocharged and direct-injection TSI engines. Compared to its predecessor, the EA211 series is significantly more compact, with installation length 50 mm shorter, thus offering more interior space. The installation position of the engines has also been optimised. Just as in the diesels, the petrol engines are now mounted with the exhaust side facing backwards and tilted at an angle of 12 degrees. The weight of these petrol engines made of die-cast aluminium is only 97 kg for the 1.2 TSI and 106 kg for the 1.4 TSI. The crankshaft alone became lighter by 20 per cent; the connecting rods lost 30 per cent of their weight. In addition the connecting rod bearing journals are now hollow-drilled and pistons now come with flat bottoms, all of them optimized for lower weight. Regarding thermal management, the EA211 petrol engine is equipped with a modern dual-circuit cooling system. That means that a high temperature circuit with a mechanically driven cooling pump cools the basic engine, while a low temperature circuit flows through the intercooler and the turbo-charger casing. The cylinder-head circuit heats the cabin's interior. The exhaust manifold is integrated into the cylinder head, enabling the engine to warm up more quickly, in turn making heat available quickly for the passenger cabin. At high loads, the exhaust is cooled by the coolant, lowering fuel consumption

Additionally, the inter-cooler in EA211 is no longer the conventional air-to-air type, but rather an integrated unit part of the intake manifold and uses a air-to-liquid type construction.

Current EA111 series engine utilizations in India: Polo GT TSI / Vento TSI (1.2 TSI) and the Jetta (1.4 TSI).

Current EA211 series engine utilizations in India: Octavia Mk3, Beetle, Audi A4 (all 1.4 TSI).

Like previously mentioned, this 180 TSI caught testing (assuming it has the new EA211 1.2 TSI) could be just to replace the aging 1.2L NA 3-cylinder lethargic petrol motor in the Polo, as well as the unit on the current GT TSI / Vento TSI. Summarising what has been already discussed so far in this thread, soon the regular polo line up might have the following engine choices:

Petrol (EA211 1.2TSI): 90PS (regular variant), 110PS (GT variant)
Diesel 1.5TDI: 90PS (regular variant), 110 PS (GT variant).

They reduce the basic inventory to two engines (currently three), and can offer two states of tune in each of them.