why swift faster than esteem?

revvesteem · 29th October 2006, 23:51

hi everybody..
i ve been thinking about why does swift have marginally more top speed than an esteem? according to autocar, swift has a top speed of 174kmph while esteem has mere 165 . why does it happen eventhough esteem is more aerodynamic and has more power-to-weight ratio?

abhijit 2284 · 30th October 2006, 09:39

it seems to me that the swift should have taller gearing ,enabling it acheive a better top speed and it definately has a better drag coeffecient .

Atlest thats my personal opinion, anybody facts to support or disprove my ideology are welcome

goldie_malhotra · 30th October 2006, 09:44

Perhaps it could be that people are scared to take the esteem beyond those speeds - at least I would be.

Vid6639 · 30th October 2006, 09:54

I believe the gearing for the 2 cars are different as well as the engines are tuned differently.

Also the tyre sizes for the 2 cars are different. The swifts being bigger.

n_aditya · 30th October 2006, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by revvesteem

according to autocar, swift has a top speed of 174kmph while esteem has mere 165 . why does it happen eventhough esteem is more aerodynamic and has more power-to-weight ratio?

I dunno how much of this is really true but you can't believe everything you read...

btw my stage 1 esteem does 160 in III gear

ravibhat · 30th October 2006, 10:02

Yes thats right vid6639. Swift is new design new car.

sreenivass · 30th October 2006, 11:04

I think its because of new engine design & tuning. Infact swift is a heavier car than Esteem.

Is it possible that Esteem wont be stable beyond that speed so manufacturer limited the speed despite having a capable engine ?

Iknowthisguy · 30th October 2006, 11:11

Swift engine is more refined & tuned ...one can see the output of the engine for esteem & swift
Also..Swift is more aerodynamic(from the looks of it) & its better planted on the road, maybe one is more confident of doing such high speeds on swift

IMO, esteem would give a "take-off" feeling on those stock tires

Cheers

yogesh sarkar · 30th October 2006, 12:50

swift = 87bhp @ 6000rpm & 113Nm @ 4500rpm

esteem = 85 bhp @ 6000 rpm & 110 Nm @ 4500 rpm

however swift weighs 80kgs more than esteem, i guess swift has taller gear ratio compared with esteem

theMAG · 30th October 2006, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by revvesteem

hi everybody..
i ve been thinking about why does swift have marginally more top speed than an esteem? according to autocar, swift has a top speed of 174kmph while esteem has mere 165 . why does it happen eventhough esteem is more aerodynamic and has more power-to-weight ratio?

Immediate factors are the

Swift | Esteem

Higher torque 113 NM @ 4500 rpm | 110 @ 4500 rpm
Higher BHP 87 | 85
Higher Compression ratio 9.0:1 | 9.0 +- 0.2
Taller gear ratios
Different ECU mapping etc.

Vid6639 · 30th October 2006, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by sreenivass

I think its because of new engine design & tuning. Infact swift is a heavier car than Esteem.

Is it possible that Esteem wont be stable beyond that speed so manufacturer limited the speed despite having a capable engine ?

The engine is the same as that of esteem It's only tuned differently. There will be many factors which can make the swift quicker. The Exhaust design, gear ratios, ECU mapping and other stuff will differentiate.

I dont think manufacturers put any restrictions just because the car wont be stable. there will be a limitation to performance only for better mileage.

revvesteem · 30th October 2006, 13:17

these factors (torque, compression ratio, ecu mapping) help to incerase bhp. so we shall only conseder the final output i.e BHP. but how can mere 2 bhp more can make the car faster by 9 kmph?
I dont think swift is more aerodynamic than esteem.

Vid6639 · 30th October 2006, 13:30

Torque and BHP are not the only factors. The bhp and torque figures are of the engine. So if the gear ratios and ECU mapping are different the preformance will vary.

Finally these numbers will not be accurate and will be exagerrated. No manufacturers actually give true speeds.
Even the mags ACI and OD will have different numbers.
Dont go by these numbers.

esteem_lover · 30th October 2006, 16:09

please do not believe everything the automags write. the swift sports a slightly modified esteem engine to compensate the extra weight of its body, thats all. i have done 165 on my 8 yr old esteem & stopped at that for fear of something coming off. Also my engine is not exactly fresh. so a newer MPFI esteem will certainly do more than 174. Or perhaps the speedo error in the swift is slightly more than that in the esteem.

hellspawn · 30th October 2006, 16:21

i think it has more to do with the gearing than anything else.for eg:swift
the esteem's 0-100 time is 11.43sec while the swift's 0-100 time is 12.xxsec.(as per autocar) but the esteem has a lower top speed than the swift.this shows that the swift has a taller gearing.
contrary to the first post i have touched 177 in my stock mpfi esteem.

29th October 2006, 23:51	#1
revvesteem Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: kochi Posts: 8 Thanked: 0 Times	hi everybody.. i ve been thinking about why does swift have marginally more top speed than an esteem? according to autocar, swift has a top speed of 174kmph while esteem has mere 165 . why does it happen eventhough esteem is more aerodynamic and has more power-to-weight ratio?
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 09:39	#2
abhijit 2284 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Aurangabad Posts: 206 Thanked: 113 Times View My Garage	it seems to me that the swift should have taller gearing ,enabling it acheive a better top speed and it definately has a better drag coeffecient . Atlest thats my personal opinion, anybody facts to support or disprove my ideology are welcome
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 09:44	#3
goldie_malhotra BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 757 Thanked: 12 Times	Perhaps it could be that people are scared to take the esteem beyond those speeds - at least I would be.
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 09:54	#4
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,732 Thanked: 43,495 Times View My Garage	I believe the gearing for the 2 cars are different as well as the engines are tuned differently. Also the tyre sizes for the 2 cars are different. The swifts being bigger.
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 10:02	#6
ravibhat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,256 Thanked: 37 Times View My Garage	Yes thats right vid6639. Swift is new design new car.
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 11:04	#7
sreenivass BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bangalore India Posts: 932 Thanked: 44 Times View My Garage	I think its because of new engine design & tuning. Infact swift is a heavier car than Esteem. Is it possible that Esteem wont be stable beyond that speed so manufacturer limited the speed despite having a capable engine ?
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 11:11	#8
Iknowthisguy BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 63 Thanked: Once	Swift engine is more refined & tuned ...one can see the output of the engine for esteem & swift Also..Swift is more aerodynamic(from the looks of it) & its better planted on the road, maybe one is more confident of doing such high speeds on swift IMO, esteem would give a "take-off" feeling on those stock tires Cheers
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 12:50	#9
yogesh sarkar BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 238 Thanked: 37 Times	swift = 87bhp @ 6000rpm & 113Nm @ 4500rpm esteem = 85 bhp @ 6000 rpm & 110 Nm @ 4500 rpm however swift weighs 80kgs more than esteem, i guess swift has taller gear ratio compared with esteem
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 13:17	#12
revvesteem Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: kochi Posts: 8 Thanked: 0 Times	these factors (torque, compression ratio, ecu mapping) help to incerase bhp. so we shall only conseder the final output i.e BHP. but how can mere 2 bhp more can make the car faster by 9 kmph? I dont think swift is more aerodynamic than esteem.
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 13:30	#13
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,732 Thanked: 43,495 Times View My Garage	Torque and BHP are not the only factors. The bhp and torque figures are of the engine. So if the gear ratios and ECU mapping are different the preformance will vary. Finally these numbers will not be accurate and will be exagerrated. No manufacturers actually give true speeds. Even the mags ACI and OD will have different numbers. Dont go by these numbers.
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 16:09	#14
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	please do not believe everything the automags write. the swift sports a slightly modified esteem engine to compensate the extra weight of its body, thats all. i have done 165 on my 8 yr old esteem & stopped at that for fear of something coming off. Also my engine is not exactly fresh. so a newer MPFI esteem will certainly do more than 174. Or perhaps the speedo error in the swift is slightly more than that in the esteem.
	() Thanks

30th October 2006, 16:21	#15
hellspawn Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: noida Posts: 1,686 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	i think it has more to do with the gearing than anything else.for eg:swift the esteem's 0-100 time is 11.43sec while the swift's 0-100 time is 12.xxsec.(as per autocar) but the esteem has a lower top speed than the swift.this shows that the swift has a taller gearing. contrary to the first post i have touched 177 in my stock mpfi esteem.
	() Thanks