[ajmat]

I was speaking to some senior executives of a major car company last week. They were of the opinion that the recent government U turn on Hybrids was the fact that the government was deceived by so-called weak hybrids - (Read SHVS and Micro-Hybrid variants) which have a very minimal impact and do not live up to the tax subsidy afforded!

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by ajmat

I was speaking to some senior executives of a major car company last week. They were of the opinion that the recent government U turn on Hybrids was the fact that the government was deceived by so-called weak hybrids - (Read SHVS and Micro-Hybrid variants) which have a very minimal impact and do not live up to the tax subsidy afforded!

Thank you Maruti Suzuki. Things like this and adding 80kmph buzzer are your biggest innovations. So much for being the leader.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by ajmat

I was speaking to some senior executives of a major car company last week. They were of the opinion that the recent government U turn on Hybrids was the fact that the government was deceived by so-called weak hybrids - (Read SHVS and Micro-Hybrid variants) which have a very minimal impact and do not live up to the tax subsidy afforded!

It is extremely common for "Sour Grapes" folks to blame. The point is that Suzuki did something that was legal and pioneered by Mahindra ( just not advertised).

[aniyo]

I see it differently. There is no political gain to be achieved by promoting hybrid or electric cars.
When it will have a political benefit for sure government will do a lot.
I don't believe that electric cars gained traction in developed countries because politicians felt the need, there was a public demand and this pressure led to policies.

[M00M]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

It is extremely common for "Sour Grapes" folks to blame. The point is that Suzuki did something that was legal and pioneered by Mahindra ( just not advertised).

It was not legal. it was a loophole that they exercised and abused a word "hybrid" there is nothing hybrid about micro hybrid or SVHS it is just plain marketing jingle creating hype and hoopla, any educated person who takes interest in technology and his new car can read and understand what is a true hybrid and what is marketing hoopla or jhumla as people are saying now a days.

Suzuki and maruti only care about making money and manufacturing thousands and thousands of cars it has never done anything pioneering except the original maruti 800. if you read their history they kept giving us one one car model every 10 years or so, only after hyundai and other other companies came aggressively into india did maruti start matching them and updating their cars and new launches.

This exploitation of the hybrid is what has caused the GOI to withdraw the subsidy under FAME. They shouldve rather tightened the wording of hybrid in their books and give subsidy to true hybrids but now such is the smartness of officials of GOI.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by M00M

This exploitation of the hybrid is what has caused the GOI to withdraw the subsidy under FAME.

I agree with everything that you have said except this line. As my company is part of ACMA and is up to date w.r.t. government thinking on this matter, I can confidently say, this is far from truth.

Actually, GOI has made some very agressive commitments to Climate control groups, which cannot be met by incremental steps like hybrids. EV / Fuel Cell is the only way to meet the same.

Additionally, CAFE norms are also going to come in place from around 2023, which is resulting in death of Diesels. To meet this stringent 2023 CAFE targets, usage of hybrids is inevitable until there is a major breakthrough in IC technology. So, GOI sees no reason to incentivise Hybrids. EVs are a different ball game as they are way more expensive and require lot of effort from GOI as well. So, there was talk of EV policy and not a Hybrid+ EV policy.

[M00M]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

I can confidently say, this is far from truth.

Actually, GOI has made some very agressive commitments to Climate control groups, which cannot be met by incremental steps like hybrids. EV / Fuel Cell is the only way to meet the same.

Additionally, CAFE norms are also going to come in place from around 2023, which is resulting in death of Diesels. .

Yes GOI has made aggressive commitments in the Paris Accord but lets put this into a little perspective. We say lets stop buying petrol diesel and use electricity. To make this electricity we need coal or diesel and also increased usage of electricity will cause electricity demand and so increased coal and diesel usage and also all our individual electric bills will shoot up like 3 fold on average.

So yes emissions may reduce but expenses wont.

Secondly I feel that electrics are too expensive. So a complete shift is not as easy as Modi and Gadkari have projected. Good electrics like Tesla are not in India yet and even if they come they may start at 1 cr which will be out of reach of most. Also just wanted to say that Auto industry though gives employment to thousands of people has never received the kind of support it has always asked the GOI whether BJP gov or Congress gov. Infact SIAM has been asking for clear cut taxation and future roadmap policy but there is no clear cut policy at all. Just hap hazard updates now and again.

What do you feel for Diesels ? Should someone buy a diesel car right now or not ? Considering price of fuel and heavy usage diesel is still cheaper than running a petrol currently.

[shortbread]

Electrified transport is completely possible in places where it is needed most, the polluted cities of India (no offence). The grid is available and there are multiple possibilities in installing charging points, residential buildings, shopping malls, government offices, educational institutions, offices etc..etc..It is not rocket science, creating a charging grid is not the most difficult of endeavours.

Hybrids are losing parlance the world over with improved and more affordable battery technology. Hybrids add more sophistication than pure electric, this is not desirable in a market like India. Apart from the issue of range Hybrids provide no benefit over pure electric.

The biggest issue for the government will be disciplining Hybrid application in India. Manufacturers like Maruti will use every possible loophole to extend existing the life of IC technology by using electric parallel power simply for the sake of passing norms. Minuscule batteries that have no real world relevance can provide limited zero emission range good enough to pass a pollution check. The government will simply play catch up having to pass one regulation after the other.

Maruti will be the biggest loser if the government discourages Hybrid tech, because that is one arena where Toyota the technology provider is strong at. They rule the roost in hybrids and Maruti will have ready-made access to the same. This move by the Indian government quells all such hopes and rightly so. If Maruti wants to take advantage of this revolution then the Japs better spend the big bucks and set up massive battery manufacturing plants, no more hand me downs.

If India needs to be at the cusp of cutting edge automotive technology then we need to jump a generation and go pure electric. It will be a big leap but there well be demand to support widespread electric manufacture. Volumes will increase affordability.

[srishiva]

In my office in California there are hundred or so of pure electric cars. They come and plug in the free charge provided by the company. Most of colleagues use their cars for commuting to office mostly. They have multiple cars and don't use pure electrics for long rides.
Plus there are now hybrids of most of the cars and SUVs. You can see them in more numbers with plug in hybrids also being introduced by most. Are developed countries ready for widespread use of pure electrics ? No.

I think plug ins give the confidence and also help in saving fuel. They are little complicated but have lesser pure electric range just to make them little cheaper. Having petrol plugins will take care of pollution to a great extent. Most people here cannot afford to have multiple cars. We still have power outages and will have no car to drive in the morning.

If the govt really wants to say that we need to jump to pure electrics, let them improve the electric grid by order of magnitude first. Without that its just empty talk. Even if they do, I am not sure charging infrastructure will be good enough when we have no parking spaces in this country. Even on highways, it will be difficult and waste of travel time.

[theredliner]

Brace yourselves. Another cess bomb coming soon!

Govt may levy another tax on fossil fuel cars, SUVs to drive electric vehicle growth

To discourage buyers of new car powered by petrol and diesel engines, the Centre is believed to be contemplating slapping a cess on all fossil fuel cars and SUVs that will be used to incentivise sale of electric cars.
This move will help cut direct subsidy given by the government on purchase of fully electric and hybrid vehicles, including two and three-wheelers, under the Faster Adoption and Manufacturing of Electric and Hybrid Vehicle (FAME) scheme.

Source