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Old 27th October 2020, 00:54   #31
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

Whenever Honda launches something it is either the case of:
1. A cheap product based on the Brio-Amaze platform.
2. A nice product which is overpriced and has got underwhelming powertrains.

The City is the only car which doesn't seem to fit in these categories. (Thankfully!)
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Old 27th October 2020, 01:54   #32
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
Whenever Honda launches something it is either the case of:
1. A cheap product based on the Brio-Amaze platform.
2. A nice product which is overpriced and has got underwhelming powertrains.

The City is the only car which doesn't seem to fit in these categories. (Thankfully!)
Actually, the City fits both descriptions. The car we get is no longer based on the international Jazz/Fit platform. The underpinnings are very similar to those of the Amaze if not identical.

And the car IS overpriced. I bought my 2014 iDTEC V for about 11L on road. The equivalent model today for what is essentially a facelift with the same engine costs 17L. The car is simply not worth 17L. And then, the power trains are far from the best. The iVTEC for all its high rpms is outpaced by the new turbo petrols. And the diesel is completely sub par in every way against the Hyundai engine.

The position of the new City today very much reflects everything that is wrong at Honda. And I totally share your apprehensions about whatever Creta rival Honda India eventually comes up with.
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Old 27th October 2020, 02:10   #33
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

A facelift with the same engine? You must be talking about the Ciaz or Verna. Facelifts don't involve rework of engine internals and rework of chassis components. Try fitting the 2014 City panels onto the 2020 City to test this.
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Old 27th October 2020, 02:11   #34
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
And the car IS overpriced. I bought my 2014 iDTEC V for about 11L on road. The equivalent model today for what is essentially a facelift with the same engine costs 17L. The car is simply not worth 17L.
Assuming a 7% avg. inflation rate, 11L in 2014 is ~16.5L in 2020. From that measure, seems like the prices haven't changed significantly. Also it's likely that the 2020 model packs in a few extra features.

The fact that real wages (or perceived real wages) not keeping up with inflation makes us feel that cars have gotten more expensive. However, Honda can't be blamed for that.
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Old 27th October 2020, 03:00   #35
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

Whatever Honda is planning to launch, it should be

1. Good looking
To beat "The Seltos" its going to take the Honda designers to work hard.
2. Premium
Quality and features wise, as main competitors, Seltos, Creta, Venue and Sonet, each is more than loaded.
3. Well Priced
Hondas were always overpriced, there was time when it was justified. But, gone are those days.
4. Spreadout Variants.
Honda needs to come up with choices that would work out for the customers, careful placement of features and a proper pricing is needed in each variant. Basically, learn something from KIA.


ELSE, Honda can simply just give competition to Maruti's Brezza, Ertiga, where they wont be able to crunch any better numbers than Maruti for sure.
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Old 27th October 2020, 09:02   #36
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

This thread was started in 2018. 2020 is nearing end and Honda is still readying. Seems Honda cannot see beyond the City. "One hit" wonder is a term used for artists who only have one massive hit in their entire life time. Guess it applies to Honda. (In case of Toyota, well they had 2 hits Innova/Fortuner). Time to wake up Honda, stop dreaming now.

I hope they have something substantial. Frankly I am tired of seeing manufacturers the level of Honda/Toyota/Suzuki giving us the step-motherly treatment. It's the Koreans and the Chinese who are actually giving the Indian customer the car he/she really wants while the Japs are busy trying to sell us the vehicles that they want to sell and not what the customer wants. That's the difference between the Japanese and the Korean/Chinese manufacturers.
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Old 27th October 2020, 10:19   #37
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnt. View Post
Assuming a 7% avg. inflation rate, 11L in 2014 is ~16.5L in 2020. From that measure, seems like the prices haven't changed significantly. Also it's likely that the 2020 model packs in a few extra features.

The fact that real wages (or perceived real wages) not keeping up with inflation makes us feel that cars have gotten more expensive. However, Honda can't be blamed for that.
It doesn't always work like this. Tech gets cheaper through the years, so does the manufacturing processes. One time fixed costs get recovered over the years and depreciation on assets/machinery practically makes a decade old factory running for free now.
Cars these days are overpriced, whichever way you look at it. This is not specific to Honda though. But simple inflation calculation to justify prices does not cut for me.
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Old 27th October 2020, 13:13   #38
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

At no point does manufacturing cost reduce for a manufacturer. Not even if someone is using a decade old chassis like Skoda is doing. Factory workers wages, rise in raw material costs, electricity costs, transport costs are all factored into annual increments. Doubt any of us would work at a workplace that does not annually revise our pay. And that extra pay comes from our employer upping the price elsewhere.
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Old 30th October 2020, 08:45   #39
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

Honda's new CUV spied , this time seen along with the FIT.

Is this the ZR-V that will rival Hyundai's Creta and Kia Seltos?

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Quote:
Looking at the wide body style, it seems that there is no doubt that it will be numbered 3 like the current model, and by adopting the new generation Honda architecture, a wide & low coupe SUV is expressed.

And the overhang of the roof spoiler is considerably more noticeable than the new Fit 4, and although it is an urban SUV, it seems to be a combination of sportiness, but the inside of the car seems to be quite narrow.
Quote:
By the way, the derivative car of the new Vezel reported by Magazine X is "located between CR-V and Vezel",
Quote:
The development vehicles of the new Vezel (temporary numbers are "Mie 10-04" and "Mie 10-05") are lined up next to the Fit 3 and the new Fit 4, respectively, but when they are lined up in this way The impression was that the new Vezel that was said would not be that big, but rather the overall height is the same as or slightly lower than the new Fit 4, so maybe the "derivative car of the new Vezel"

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Therefore, the body size is 4,450 mm in length x 1,790 mm in width x 1,650 mm in height, which is exactly the same size as the new Vezel, but the total height of the new Fit 4 is 1,515 mm to 1,565 mm, so the coupe SUV is close to this height
Quote:
By the way, the new Vezel (or derivative car) with a triple temporary number is completely the first time, but the design of the rear tail lamp, the rear hatch glass that seems to be laid down, the horizontal reflector, the rear quarter glass that can be seen a little, the pillar mount door handle, And the shape around the license plate is exactly the same as the new Vezel that has been spy shot so far.

Link

Last edited by volkman10 : 30th October 2020 at 08:47.
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Old 30th October 2020, 12:12   #40
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

The lethargy that Honda has shown towards India, frankly, does not merit too much discussion and speculation. Lets comment on the product when we actually see one on the roads in India, after being officially launched. I am sick and tired of this HRV/ZRV hullabaloo. Even Honda's dealers know this. I sensed a palpable frustration from the Honda dealer in Pune when I was discussing options from the Honda stable recently. There is a big 20 lakh rupee hole from the WRV all the way till CRV. I think competitors have better products and plans in general.

Last edited by fhdowntheline : 30th October 2020 at 12:14.
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Old 20th January 2021, 22:52   #41
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

Now that Honda stopped CRV, there is no SUV for Honda except WRV.

Initially I felt WRV was a stop gap till the full blown SUVs would be launched.

Now sadly WRV is the only SUV(cross JAZZ) from Honda India.

Not sure what is going on with Honda India, at least they should create some enthusiasm in the form of news and plans.
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Old 11th October 2021, 13:08   #42
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

Mini Honda BR-V planned for launch in H2 2022, to be named WR-V. Could be replacing the current WR-V in India?

Honda Indonesia has also teased what might be the upcoming rival to the Toyota Raize at the end of the all-new BR-V's launch.
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Honda has another model in store to compete against smaller SUVs like the Kia Sonet and Toyota Raize.

Quote:
More or less in the second half of 2022, Honda will introduce a car with such criteria. And most likely using the same platform as the All New BR-V
Quote:
The project, called NESS, uses the same engine as City HB and the All New BR-V. But it will have a more compact dimension
The WR-V is currently sold in Latin America, South Africa, and India but this next-gen model is likely due to arrive in Southeast Asian markets including Indonesia and Malaysia.


Link

Last edited by volkman10 : 11th October 2021 at 13:09.
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Old 11th October 2021, 16:46   #43
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

Am a little pessimistic on Honda India prospects here. looking at this thread too, Honda has been "preparing / launching / testing / looking at best options" in compact / sub-compact SUV space. This is akin to something we say in my office - "people strategizing and planning the whole day with nothing in action is equal to Day Dreaming".

Most forum members as well as other people in general (in my circle) whom I have spoken to have little recall of Honda outside the City and in some cases Amaze. Just nothing from coming Honda India.
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Old 18th October 2021, 10:53   #44
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Default Re: Honda readying two new SUVs for India - A Creta rival & a sub-4m SUV

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
The lethargy that Honda has shown towards India, frankly, does not merit too much discussion and speculation. Lets comment on the product when we actually see one on the roads in India, after being officially launched. I am sick and tired of this HRV/ZRV hullabaloo. Even Honda's dealers know this. I sensed a palpable frustration from the Honda dealer in Pune when I was discussing options from the Honda stable recently. There is a big 20 lakh rupee hole from the WRV all the way till CRV. I think competitors have better products and plans in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_anup View Post
Am a little pessimistic on Honda India prospects here. looking at this thread too, Honda has been "preparing / launching / testing / looking at best options" in compact / sub-compact SUV space. This is akin to something we say in my office - "people strategizing and planning the whole day with nothing in action is equal to Day Dreaming".

Most forum members as well as other people in general (in my circle) whom I have spoken to have little recall of Honda outside the City and in some cases Amaze. Just nothing from coming Honda India.
IMO, Honda can still use this opportunity to launch cars which are-
  1. As safe as Tata/Mahindra
  2. As reliable and cost-effective as Toyota/Suzuki
  3. As feature-rich as Hyundai/Kia

While MG has done all of this with the Astor, the Chinese link will be a concern for many.

There is no first-mover advantage in the auto sector. With introductory competitive pricing and feature-loaded vehicles (to gain traction and sell more). Honda can still win the race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
The lethargy that Honda has shown towards India, frankly, does not merit too much discussion and speculation. Lets comment on the product when we actually see one on the roads in India, after being officially launched. I am sick and tired of this HRV/ZRV hullabaloo. Even Honda's dealers know this. I sensed a palpable frustration from the Honda dealer in Pune when I was discussing options from the Honda stable recently. There is a big 20 lakh rupee hole from the WRV all the way till CRV. I think competitors have better products and plans in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_anup View Post
Am a little pessimistic on Honda India prospects here. looking at this thread too, Honda has been "preparing / launching / testing / looking at best options" in compact / sub-compact SUV space. This is akin to something we say in my office - "people strategizing and planning the whole day with nothing in action is equal to Day Dreaming".

Most forum members as well as other people in general (in my circle) whom I have spoken to have little recall of Honda outside the City and in some cases Amaze. Just nothing from coming Honda India.
IMO, Honda can still use this opportunity to launch cars which are-
  1. As safe as Tata/Mahindra
  2. As reliable and cost-effective as Toyota/Suzuki
  3. As feature-rich as Hyundai/Kia

While MG has done all of this with the Astor, the Chinese link will be a concern for many.

There is no first-mover advantage in the auto sector. With introductory competitive pricing and feature-loaded vehicles (to gain traction and sell more). Honda can still win the race. Tata and Mahindra have already made customers aware of safety concerns. Skoda/VW would have been successful with the Kushaq/Taigun until their reliability took a hit.
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