Toyota's next car

rahul_intlad · 16th February 2007, 18:54

Speaking to DNA Money earlier, TKM vice-chairman Vikram Kirloskar had said that Toyota’s Indian operation was still not “competitive” enough on the cost front, compared to other Toyota operations worldwide.Reports from Tokyo on the company’s small car plans make it clear that it is still in the process of getting its cost equation right, while maintaining the quality benchmark......

“We have to get competitive compared to other Toyota operations worldwide. On the cost index of manufacturing, India is still above one, which means other Toyota operations such as Japan, Thailand and Taiwan are far more cost competitive than us. We are struggling with costs in India,” he had said.
Even the design and positioning of the small car have not been frozen yet. Chucking conventional wisdom, which dictates that any small car entrant should come up with a no-frills, low-cost vehicle (a hatchback) to exploit the mass market, Toyota may be mulling launch of a sedan instead. Such a product would be suited not just to India, but other BRIC markets as well.
“What suits India may not fit the needs of Brazil and China. Toyota is doing research on how to develop a single platform for the small car venture and crank out more than one type of car from this platform for the BRIC markets. In the end, the company may develop both - a hatchback and a sedan - on the same platform and the hatchback may not necessarily be the first of the two,” says an auto industry expert.
Experts feel Toyota’s sedan would most likely be in the B+ segment, where prices range upwards of Rs 5 lakh. At present, this price category comprises entry-level sedans besides premium hatchbacks Swift, Getz and Aveo UVA.

Source:
DNA - Money - Toyota’s low-cost car may take on Maruti, Tata - Daily News & Analysis

MaserQ · 16th February 2007, 19:52

Quote:

All this data is enough to show that the VIOS will do well even in India. Isint this enough info to convince Toyota to stop thinking and launch the damn thing. They have been talking on and on about this for years.

This car should have made it to India by now. Or is Toyota waiting for the next gen VIOS/Yaris to yank the old dyes out of other asian factories and get it into India. (like they did with the Qualis)

Quote:

Latest Toyota vios for thailand,is actually the Toyota Belta.With the relations toyota india has with Thailand this car could also be a possibility as the vios for India too.

That is the Yaris in mild disguise. It would make sense for Toyota to introduce this car in India, provided they get the costs right. The Yaris could give the NHC a run for its money, assuming that its launched soon. A 1.5 diesel should seal the issue.

Quote:

Speaking to DNA Money earlier, TKM vice-chairman Vikram Kirloskar had said that Toyota’s Indian operation was still not “competitive” enough on the cost front, compared to other Toyota operations worldwide.

First, they introduce a outdated MUV in India by literally transplating their Indonesian operations to India. They sell a zillion of those in India, then introduce a 10lac+ saloon in India, which is not doing badly. Then comes the new MUV, which is a class leader in its own right. They havent resorted to introducing an 'India specific' car (plenty of investment needed)

So, does this mean that they are not 'competitive' or is it just that TKM is not making enough money out of Indian operations..?

agspins · 16th February 2007, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasadee

I was hoping they would launch something similar to the Aygo in India. I love the Aygo, they have launched it in almost all the european countries. A 5 door small car should give them the great volumes. I am not sure when they will realize this.

absolutely right if toyota wants to get into small car battle they should definately bring something aygo based..

JUELZ 41 · 19th February 2007, 07:26

TOYOTA...the second largest manufacturer of cars in the world, its indian operation is seeing a slight dip recently. the corolla and innova sales are going down. if this is the situation then it wont have a high brand value in india. it needs to do some major re-organizing. it should have a presence in every segment. it needs to launch a small car (maybe the aygo/yaris) asap. this is the segment where they can break into big volumes. it needs to get into the small sedan segment with the launch of the vios. if priced correctly, it can give the honda city and the ford fiesta something to worry about. since the corolla is gonna be phased out worldwide, they need to launch the new redesigned one not too long after its worldwide launch. ever since the civic entered the market, the corolla sales have been going south. this can give the civic some serious competition and corolla can regain its top position in this segment. the small suv segment has been dominated by the Honda CRV. if the fortuner is launced and priced around nearly as much as the CRV, then toyota mught be the new leader in that segment. the camry is a beautiful and very sophisticated car. in the international market, it competes and is priced alongside the honda accord/ford mondeo/nissan altima/hyundai sonata. in the indian market where the accord is dominated that segmant, it is priced about 3-4L more than the accord b/c it is sold as a CBU. if it starts assembling SKD kits, the pricing can change for this beauty and it will give the accord some sleepless nights. the prado is just doin its thing right up there.

it should also consider bringing in the lexus brand to the country. the competition in the luxury segment will get more brutal since BMW and Audi are here now to join M/B. jaguar, volvo and aston martin and just around the corner to take on the big BENZO.

thainogkok · 19th February 2007, 13:10

forget the Aygo.
under agreement between Toyota and PSA group
The Aygo can be manufacturor in Europe (Czech Republic )only.
so, import Aygo from Czech Republic?
No..

srishiva · 19th February 2007, 13:19

Toyota seems to have some problems in India and China in that they are not able to apply the Toyota Way effectively management wise. This might he hampering their ability. But knowing about Toyota, they are always in for the long run. Hope they start cranking sooner.

carCrazy25 · 19th February 2007, 21:58

@srishiva.
Problem Toyota says in launching a Small car in India is paper thin Profit margins.
They also say they are not able to bring down the cost and also keep up their world class quality!!! GO FIGURE!!!!

But some of the complaints ppl here have is, they say that the Quality of their products and customer service is going down, bcos they have become too big!!!

srishiva · 20th February 2007, 14:27

The way Toyota works is they stress a lot on manufacturing efficiency which saves them money which they put back into the car to improve the quality. So for them its not just about the car but how they build it.

rahul_intlad · 24th February 2007, 14:00

Things are beginning to get in place :

Quote:

Toyota Kirloskar to open Pune warehouse

With Pune supplying a major chunk of automotive components for Toyota Kirloskar Motors (TKM), the company has decided to establish a warehouse in the city to cater to the needs of its suppliers. A team is currently in Pune scouting for possible locations. The warehouse is likely to come up at Chakan which is also home to factories of Volkswagen and General Motors.

The company has similar warehouses in Manesar and Bangalore and the Pune warehouse would cater to the needs of the western region.

source:
Toyota Kirloskar to open Pune warehouse

askicode · 2nd May 2007, 17:26

This month's Overdrive issue talks about Toyota's plans to bring in the Vios which would be directly pitted against the Honda City. They have also mentioned this car to come out by the end of this year or latest by early 2008.

anandpadhye · 2nd May 2007, 18:20

Vios...unless it's the Belta version, the looks are ordinary...like the Aveo...

I am disappointed with Toyota in India...they started off with an amazingly ugly looking (and amazingly outdated) Qualis and I will not forgive them for that.

Look at Honda - they launched their standard looking City, sleek Accord, cute CR-V, then followed up with NHC which had futuristic looks (not everyone liked the looks, but everyone talked about the car) and now the ultimate Civic (this one - everyone liked the looks and everyone is talking)...

Above all, i like Honda for graciously respecting India as an important market rather than a dumping ground.

vasudeva · 2nd May 2007, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahul_intlad

The new vios is really speaking not that old that we can call it some sort of a leftover.

From what I have heard the Vios is more of a drivers car than the NHC[no direct experience so far].It should give good competetion to the NHC and thats where we should have some fun.

If Vios is going to be launched soon (in 2007 in India), then going about Toyota's present production capacities in India, it could be a completely built unit or even a CKD. That would make it more expensive than City or in the segment it will compete. taxes and duties for Indian made cars add up to around 50-60% of final sticker price, and for imports/semi-assembled it is more than 100%. Even Camry right now is imported and that explains the high price. Maybe Vios may be a holding strategy till Toyota launches a India-made or at least semi assembled car in the 4000-4500 mm segment. This is not likely in the next 2 years.

vasudeva · 2nd May 2007, 19:31

I am disappointed with Toyota in India...they started off with an amazingly ugly looking (and amazingly outdated) Qualis and I will not forgive them for that.

Above all, i like Honda for graciously respecting India as an important market rather than a dumping ground.[/quote]

Sorry friend. Toyota did use Qualis but that sold a lot. The present Toyota's offerings in India are the same as sold eveywhere (OK, new Corolla has been launched in Japan, but is not in the US and India). The Indian Corolla is the one sold almost everywhere else. Innova is the same.

The crown for biggest long term dumper in the Indian market mus surely go to Maruti. O Suzuki of Suzuki is often referred to as Osamu Scrooge, and his penny pinching ways make even Toyota look wasteful.

BUSA · 2nd May 2007, 19:51

Quote:

Innova is the same.

Innova is being sold with a 2.7L petrol engine elsewhere, we dont get it, here.

vasudeva · 2nd May 2007, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUSA

Innova is being sold with a 2.7L petrol engine elsewhere, we dont get it, here.

With all due respects, as you would know, engine choice, capacity, and its fuel (petrol/diesel/CNG) is a function of local markets. That is why there is a global platform but many variants. By that logic, even the Civic being sold in India is outdated. Worldwide it sells the most in 1.8L, and is the same as in India; but in US it also available as 2litre/6speed manual, and 1.8L automatic CNG. Suzuki SX4 is available as 2L. Optra (also sold as Suzuki Aerio/Forenza) has 2L engine in US. CRV is available as 2WD and 4WD. Camry is sold as 2.4L and 3.5 L, while Civic, Accord, and camry have all hybrid versions. Most of the cars sold in India and the US, have automatic versions available in the US, but except for Toyota/Honda and Optra, only manual versions in India. Does that mean that the models of these cars sold in India are obsolete.

16th February 2007, 18:54	#31
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,579 Thanked: 4 Times	Speaking to DNA Money earlier, TKM vice-chairman Vikram Kirloskar had said that Toyota’s Indian operation was still not “competitive” enough on the cost front, compared to other Toyota operations worldwide.Reports from Tokyo on the company’s small car plans make it clear that it is still in the process of getting its cost equation right, while maintaining the quality benchmark...... “We have to get competitive compared to other Toyota operations worldwide. On the cost index of manufacturing, India is still above one, which means other Toyota operations such as Japan, Thailand and Taiwan are far more cost competitive than us. We are struggling with costs in India,” he had said. Even the design and positioning of the small car have not been frozen yet. Chucking conventional wisdom, which dictates that any small car entrant should come up with a no-frills, low-cost vehicle (a hatchback) to exploit the mass market, Toyota may be mulling launch of a sedan instead. Such a product would be suited not just to India, but other BRIC markets as well. “What suits India may not fit the needs of Brazil and China. Toyota is doing research on how to develop a single platform for the small car venture and crank out more than one type of car from this platform for the BRIC markets. In the end, the company may develop both - a hatchback and a sedan - on the same platform and the hatchback may not necessarily be the first of the two,” says an auto industry expert. Experts feel Toyota’s sedan would most likely be in the B+ segment, where prices range upwards of Rs 5 lakh. At present, this price category comprises entry-level sedans besides premium hatchbacks Swift, Getz and Aveo UVA. Source: DNA - Money - Toyota’s low-cost car may take on Maruti, Tata - Daily News & Analysis Last edited by rahul_intlad : 16th February 2007 at 18:56.
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 07:26	#34
JUELZ 41 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bombay/Philadelphia/Atlanta Posts: 32 Thanked: 0 Times	TOYOTA...the second largest manufacturer of cars in the world, its indian operation is seeing a slight dip recently. the corolla and innova sales are going down. if this is the situation then it wont have a high brand value in india. it needs to do some major re-organizing. it should have a presence in every segment. it needs to launch a small car (maybe the aygo/yaris) asap. this is the segment where they can break into big volumes. it needs to get into the small sedan segment with the launch of the vios. if priced correctly, it can give the honda city and the ford fiesta something to worry about. since the corolla is gonna be phased out worldwide, they need to launch the new redesigned one not too long after its worldwide launch. ever since the civic entered the market, the corolla sales have been going south. this can give the civic some serious competition and corolla can regain its top position in this segment. the small suv segment has been dominated by the Honda CRV. if the fortuner is launced and priced around nearly as much as the CRV, then toyota mught be the new leader in that segment. the camry is a beautiful and very sophisticated car. in the international market, it competes and is priced alongside the honda accord/ford mondeo/nissan altima/hyundai sonata. in the indian market where the accord is dominated that segmant, it is priced about 3-4L more than the accord b/c it is sold as a CBU. if it starts assembling SKD kits, the pricing can change for this beauty and it will give the accord some sleepless nights. the prado is just doin its thing right up there. it should also consider bringing in the lexus brand to the country. the competition in the luxury segment will get more brutal since BMW and Audi are here now to join M/B. jaguar, volvo and aston martin and just around the corner to take on the big BENZO.
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 13:10	#35
thainogkok BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Some where i belong Posts: 189 Thanked: 3 Times	forget the Aygo. under agreement between Toyota and PSA group The Aygo can be manufacturor in Europe (Czech Republic )only. so, import Aygo from Czech Republic? No..
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 13:19	#36
srishiva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,375 Thanked: 2,256 Times	Toyota seems to have some problems in India and China in that they are not able to apply the Toyota Way effectively management wise. This might he hampering their ability. But knowing about Toyota, they are always in for the long run. Hope they start cranking sooner.
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 21:58	#37
carCrazy25 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 76 Thanked: 0 Times	@srishiva. Problem Toyota says in launching a Small car in India is paper thin Profit margins. They also say they are not able to bring down the cost and also keep up their world class quality!!! GO FIGURE!!!! But some of the complaints ppl here have is, they say that the Quality of their products and customer service is going down, bcos they have become too big!!!
	() Thanks

20th February 2007, 14:27	#38
srishiva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,375 Thanked: 2,256 Times	The way Toyota works is they stress a lot on manufacturing efficiency which saves them money which they put back into the car to improve the quality. So for them its not just about the car but how they build it.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2007, 17:26	#40
askicode BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 174 Thanked: 73 Times	This month's Overdrive issue talks about Toyota's plans to bring in the Vios which would be directly pitted against the Honda City. They have also mentioned this car to come out by the end of this year or latest by early 2008.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2007, 18:20	#41
anandpadhye Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 3,054 Thanked: 3,313 Times	Vios...unless it's the Belta version, the looks are ordinary...like the Aveo... I am disappointed with Toyota in India...they started off with an amazingly ugly looking (and amazingly outdated) Qualis and I will not forgive them for that. Look at Honda - they launched their standard looking City, sleek Accord, cute CR-V, then followed up with NHC which had futuristic looks (not everyone liked the looks, but everyone talked about the car) and now the ultimate Civic (this one - everyone liked the looks and everyone is talking)... Above all, i like Honda for graciously respecting India as an important market rather than a dumping ground.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2007, 19:31	#43
vasudeva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 2,221 Thanked: 212 Times	I am disappointed with Toyota in India...they started off with an amazingly ugly looking (and amazingly outdated) Qualis and I will not forgive them for that. Above all, i like Honda for graciously respecting India as an important market rather than a dumping ground.[/quote] Sorry friend. Toyota did use Qualis but that sold a lot. The present Toyota's offerings in India are the same as sold eveywhere (OK, new Corolla has been launched in Japan, but is not in the US and India). The Indian Corolla is the one sold almost everywhere else. Innova is the same. The crown for biggest long term dumper in the Indian market mus surely go to Maruti. O Suzuki of Suzuki is often referred to as Osamu Scrooge, and his penny pinching ways make even Toyota look wasteful.
	() Thanks