Toyota's next car

sgmuser · 3rd May 2007, 05:05

"...From what I have heard the Vios is more of a drivers car than the NHC[no direct experience so far].It should give good competetion to the NHC and thats where we should have some fun..."

As I have driven both, I will say, in terms of build quality, i "believe or felt" Honda is better. the iDSI i drove was a bit sluggish as it is tuned to give better mileage. Even auto gives around 15kmpl. Vios in the other hand, is a peppy car with reasonable package (abs/airbags/cd etc). But the interiors like seats are of lousy color and it looks really ugly. Designwise, Honda's dicky ...makes me feel like vomitting!

But, I see Vios like ants here...when comparing with City, as its one of the cheapest. low spec, manual, goes for as low as 4,94,000 equi in indian rs.

There is one more car in this range which i felt is better than these two, is latio from nissan. i have been seeing this in singapore from 2002 onwards, even before vios. looks like Vios drawn few design ques from latio i believe!

btw, the Vios has simply copied the new HC/Camry's grills/design and new Accord's back!

better looking surely.

maxbhp · 3rd May 2007, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by vasudeva

I am disappointed with Toyota in India...they started off with an amazingly ugly looking (and amazingly outdated) Qualis and I will not forgive them for that.

Its funny but if you check the used car market in south India, you will find that Qualis is in very high demand. One of my friend recently bought a 87000Km run 2000 Model Qualis for 5.7 lacs.
In 2000 he might have paid around 7.5 lacs

Seeing resale values of Similarly priced cars :

Ford IKON - 2.5-2.7 lacs
Fiat Sienna- 1.2-1.4lacs

Take anycar for that matter.......now tell me , do you still hate Toyota for bringing out Qualis ? The car maybe bad to look at but its one helluva performer. According to my mechanic Lancer Diesel and Toyota Qualis are the only two cars (now dont tell me Qualis is not a car and its a UV) that can take anything upto 2lacs on ODO without a problem.

vasudeva · 3rd May 2007, 09:47

Originally Posted by vasudeva

I am disappointed with Toyota in India...they started off with an amazingly ugly looking (and amazingly outdated) Qualis and I will not forgive them for that.

Sorry friend that was not my quote but of our colleague in post no 44. I was only replying to that quote but some computer illiteracy on my part has led to it appearing as my post. I have driven a Qualis, sat in a Qualis, own a Corolla, and know why Qualis was such a favourite when it appeared and is in such demand in the used car market, and why Qualis sold in the first place, and why Innova is selling more than 4000 units per month. Even now if you want to hire a SUV for outstation, at least in North India, Innova is the preferred choice followed by Safari/Scorpio. In April 2002-March 04, there were around 85000 qualis sold in India. Considering around 30000 sold in April 04-March 05, and around 35000 in 2000-March 2002, that is a lot of Qualis population and many of the Qualis are still running as they used to.

anandpadhye · 3rd May 2007, 10:09

Well, look at it with this perspective - All Toyota cars are built to last. Will do more than 2 lakh KMs without an issue. If one has such a range of highly reliable cars, why launch the ugliest one as the first model entering a new market?

And they got away with it because the sumos, commanders, armadas, trax's, gamma's were horrible to drive and maintain.

Customers will always choose "ugly but reliable" over "ugly and unreliable".

And if I need to taxy 8 people around India with their luggage, I can't think of buying Ford ikon or Fiat Sienna. Can I?

BTW, I remember test driving the diesel lancer around 4 years ago. I thought it was damn smooth for a diesel and was impressed. But the very thought of having to deal with Hindustan motors scared me away.

Toyota definately is in a league much higher than the tatas, birlas, firodiyas, doshis and mahindras who fooled us for years, but then the expectation from them is also high.

In the US, corolla was my car as it is a poor man's car in the US.
I hurts me to see it sells as a luxury sedan here. The HC version sells for around 10 lacks with no audio player in it!!!

Toyota, we respect you. please respect us.

khanak · 4th May 2007, 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Toyota, we respect you. please respect us.

No offence but I dont think Toyota is really treating India that bad. The very fact that they stopped production of the Qualis which was doing really well and launched the Innova speaks a lot about their attitude towards India. A lot of cars that are so called "common cars" in the US are luxury cars in India.

Coming back to the topic, I hope Toyota launches the Yaris in India sometime soon. I really like the way it looks and Im sure ittl give tought competition to the Getz and the Swift. However going by the discussions here I guess the Vios is comming next. Seems like an ok car but nothing that really excites you.

vasudeva · 4th May 2007, 11:12

[quote=khanak;428746]No offence but I dont think Toyota is really treating India that bad. The very fact that they stopped production of the Qualis which was doing really well and launched the Innova speaks a lot about their attitude towards India. A lot of cars that are so called "common cars" in the US are luxury cars in India.

Yes what is common in US is luxury in India. But see the difference in per capita GDP and the historical evolution of the Indian car market. I am confident nearly all of US have gone through the 800 route and many are now going through that route. Regarding pricing, Corolla sells for 9-13 lakhs in India, but at around US$15-18 K in US. How much of months salary does it take. In the US, Camry is what perhaps a 5-6 lakhs car in India would be. camry sells for around US$20-25K in US but more than 20 lakhs in India. Why is that so, and say for nearly all cars. For that, you need to ask the Government and the domestic auto industry as to why import duties exceed 100%. Know that auto manufacturing is a very capital intensive business, with no certainty of demand, and setting up an auto plant is after years of planning. Worldwide and in India, an auto plant is viable at more than 0.2 million per annum of capacity. In comparison, the Indian market is only 1.3 million. There are only 3 companies with more than 1 lakh volume-Maruti, Tata, and Hyundai. Honda sold 61325 in FY2007, Toyota 51343, Ford 41798, etc. With these kind of volumes and the kind of growth expected, it would still not make sense for many plants to be set up or plants to be set up only of small capacity.

If a company produces and sells from India, the tax component on a car is more than 50% in India. If it imports, it is more than 100%. That explains to a large extent the difference in prices between India and abroad. Here are some reasonable estimates of car prices in US:
all in US$
Accord 24,000
Camry 21000-22000
sonata 22000-23000
Acura 33000-34000
BMW325i 36000-37000
Merc C230 34000
BMW 530i 55000
Civic 19000
Corolla 18000
Verna 12000-13000

Ajay · 3rd April 2008, 10:40

Folks,

Today while passing through the Toyota plant area, saw the Hilux and the new corolla. The convoy (in total 6 cars)had stopped little further away from the plant, do not know for what..

Spoke to one of the drivers and he said that the hilux was being tested from the past 6 months or so and they had already driven them for a couple of lakh kms or so in total (all test mules included).
The hilux interiors are replicative to that of the Innova, a five seater with good leg space at the rear and also was very very noisy at start.Asked them about the fortuner and they said that it might go into production end of this year or so.

Sorry folks could not take any pictures they were not complacent and left immediately.

fx45 · 3rd April 2008, 14:25

good scoop update there ajay..

nitinchawla · 3rd April 2008, 14:49

Great scoop Ajay

. Did you get any information on the new Corolla as well? Does it look the same as the one launched in other South Asian markets?

Ajay · 3rd April 2008, 15:17

Nitin,

I did see the new Corolla. It looks no different than the Altis present in the SE Asian markets and this one was a diesel.

Cheers

BAKIYA_2K12 · 23rd May 2008, 00:56

Fortuner is not coming this year could be expected next year mid. got this information from a important source

lancer_rit · 23rd May 2008, 23:21

[quote=vasudeva;428919]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khanak

If a company produces and sells from India, the tax component on a car is more than 50% in India. If it imports, it is more than 100%. That explains to a large extent the difference in prices between India and abroad. Here are some reasonable estimates of car prices in US:
all in US$
Accord 24,000
Camry 21000-22000
sonata 22000-23000
Acura 33000-34000
BMW325i 36000-37000
Merc C230 34000
BMW 530i 55000
Civic 19000
Corolla 18000
Verna 12000-13000

All of these cars IMHO are available in price ranges that largely overlap for competition in the same category. Camry can go up to $27k-28k and so can Accord. It depends on trim, engine options, leather seats, music systems etc etc. Of course, as you said, in India they all cost much much more (and even more if CBU like Camry)

GTO · 24th May 2008, 12:41

This discussion is over a year old, and there are most recent threads on Toyota's next car. Please continue the discussion over on those.

Thread closed.

3rd May 2007, 05:05	#46
sgmuser BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 755 Thanked: 1,124 Times View My Garage	"...From what I have heard the Vios is more of a drivers car than the NHC[no direct experience so far].It should give good competetion to the NHC and thats where we should have some fun..." As I have driven both, I will say, in terms of build quality, i "believe or felt" Honda is better. the iDSI i drove was a bit sluggish as it is tuned to give better mileage. Even auto gives around 15kmpl. Vios in the other hand, is a peppy car with reasonable package (abs/airbags/cd etc). But the interiors like seats are of lousy color and it looks really ugly. Designwise, Honda's dicky ...makes me feel like vomitting! But, I see Vios like ants here...when comparing with City, as its one of the cheapest. low spec, manual, goes for as low as 4,94,000 equi in indian rs. There is one more car in this range which i felt is better than these two, is latio from nissan. i have been seeing this in singapore from 2002 onwards, even before vios. looks like Vios drawn few design ques from latio i believe! btw, the Vios has simply copied the new HC/Camry's grills/design and new Accord's back! better looking surely.
	() Thanks

3rd May 2007, 09:47	#48
vasudeva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 2,221 Thanked: 212 Times	Originally Posted by vasudeva I am disappointed with Toyota in India...they started off with an amazingly ugly looking (and amazingly outdated) Qualis and I will not forgive them for that. Sorry friend that was not my quote but of our colleague in post no 44. I was only replying to that quote but some computer illiteracy on my part has led to it appearing as my post. I have driven a Qualis, sat in a Qualis, own a Corolla, and know why Qualis was such a favourite when it appeared and is in such demand in the used car market, and why Qualis sold in the first place, and why Innova is selling more than 4000 units per month. Even now if you want to hire a SUV for outstation, at least in North India, Innova is the preferred choice followed by Safari/Scorpio. In April 2002-March 04, there were around 85000 qualis sold in India. Considering around 30000 sold in April 04-March 05, and around 35000 in 2000-March 2002, that is a lot of Qualis population and many of the Qualis are still running as they used to.
	() Thanks

3rd May 2007, 10:09	#49
anandpadhye Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 3,054 Thanked: 3,313 Times	Well, look at it with this perspective - All Toyota cars are built to last. Will do more than 2 lakh KMs without an issue. If one has such a range of highly reliable cars, why launch the ugliest one as the first model entering a new market? And they got away with it because the sumos, commanders, armadas, trax's, gamma's were horrible to drive and maintain. Customers will always choose "ugly but reliable" over "ugly and unreliable". And if I need to taxy 8 people around India with their luggage, I can't think of buying Ford ikon or Fiat Sienna. Can I? BTW, I remember test driving the diesel lancer around 4 years ago. I thought it was damn smooth for a diesel and was impressed. But the very thought of having to deal with Hindustan motors scared me away. Toyota definately is in a league much higher than the tatas, birlas, firodiyas, doshis and mahindras who fooled us for years, but then the expectation from them is also high. In the US, corolla was my car as it is a poor man's car in the US. I hurts me to see it sells as a luxury sedan here. The HC version sells for around 10 lacks with no audio player in it!!! Toyota, we respect you. please respect us.
	() Thanks

4th May 2007, 11:12	#51
vasudeva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 2,221 Thanked: 212 Times	[quote=khanak;428746]No offence but I dont think Toyota is really treating India that bad. The very fact that they stopped production of the Qualis which was doing really well and launched the Innova speaks a lot about their attitude towards India. A lot of cars that are so called "common cars" in the US are luxury cars in India. Yes what is common in US is luxury in India. But see the difference in per capita GDP and the historical evolution of the Indian car market. I am confident nearly all of US have gone through the 800 route and many are now going through that route. Regarding pricing, Corolla sells for 9-13 lakhs in India, but at around US$15-18 K in US. How much of months salary does it take. In the US, Camry is what perhaps a 5-6 lakhs car in India would be. camry sells for around US$20-25K in US but more than 20 lakhs in India. Why is that so, and say for nearly all cars. For that, you need to ask the Government and the domestic auto industry as to why import duties exceed 100%. Know that auto manufacturing is a very capital intensive business, with no certainty of demand, and setting up an auto plant is after years of planning. Worldwide and in India, an auto plant is viable at more than 0.2 million per annum of capacity. In comparison, the Indian market is only 1.3 million. There are only 3 companies with more than 1 lakh volume-Maruti, Tata, and Hyundai. Honda sold 61325 in FY2007, Toyota 51343, Ford 41798, etc. With these kind of volumes and the kind of growth expected, it would still not make sense for many plants to be set up or plants to be set up only of small capacity. If a company produces and sells from India, the tax component on a car is more than 50% in India. If it imports, it is more than 100%. That explains to a large extent the difference in prices between India and abroad. Here are some reasonable estimates of car prices in US: all in US$ Accord 24,000 Camry 21000-22000 sonata 22000-23000 Acura 33000-34000 BMW325i 36000-37000 Merc C230 34000 BMW 530i 55000 Civic 19000 Corolla 18000 Verna 12000-13000
	() Thanks

3rd April 2008, 10:40	#52
Ajay BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: B'lore Posts: 147 Thanked: 5 Times	Toyota Hilux Folks, Today while passing through the Toyota plant area, saw the Hilux and the new corolla. The convoy (in total 6 cars)had stopped little further away from the plant, do not know for what.. Spoke to one of the drivers and he said that the hilux was being tested from the past 6 months or so and they had already driven them for a couple of lakh kms or so in total (all test mules included). The hilux interiors are replicative to that of the Innova, a five seater with good leg space at the rear and also was very very noisy at start.Asked them about the fortuner and they said that it might go into production end of this year or so. Sorry folks could not take any pictures they were not complacent and left immediately.
	() Thanks

3rd April 2008, 14:25	#53
fx45 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,823 Thanked: 384 Times	good scoop update there ajay..
	() Thanks

3rd April 2008, 14:49	#54
nitinchawla BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 43 Thanked: 0 Times	Great Information Great scoop Ajay. Did you get any information on the new Corolla as well? Does it look the same as the one launched in other South Asian markets?
	() Thanks

3rd April 2008, 15:17	#55
Ajay BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: B'lore Posts: 147 Thanked: 5 Times	Nitin, I did see the new Corolla. It looks no different than the Altis present in the SE Asian markets and this one was a diesel. Cheers
	() Thanks

23rd May 2008, 00:56	#56
BAKIYA_2K12 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CHENNAI Posts: 190 Thanked: 4 Times View My Garage	Fortuner is not coming this year could be expected next year mid. got this information from a important source
	() Thanks

24th May 2008, 12:41	#58
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,546 Thanked: 300,789 Times View My Garage	This discussion is over a year old, and there are most recent threads on Toyota's next car. Please continue the discussion over on those. Thread closed.
	() Thanks