Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th September 2018, 22:24   #16
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dark.knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Beans Town
Posts: 1,840
Thanked: 8,164 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Wasn't there a news about a leak in the Telematics system in Honda thus resulting in the total outing of the customers trips, details etc? Seem to remember reading it somewhere, in fact it may have been BHPian Smartcat's own experience about getting someone else's car habits in his feed.

Precisely why I will draw the line with technology outside of a laptop or a smartphone. Any data can be hacked/leaked/modified. I surely do NOT want a tablet computer that talks to me or tracks me or even stalks me without my knowledge. All technology takes in more than you get out of it and I want no part of it. The day smart cars come in, is the day I'll walk. I don't need to know the fuel usage, service reminder (a form of harassment, this may well be implemented in all cars in no time), digital service feedback (for what it is worthless anyway). If my car gets stolen, so be it and as for "share my location".. holy moly. Yes I don't want it even if it is for my own safety, no in-built Siri/Alexa for my car.
dark.knight is online now   (4) Thanks
Old 7th September 2018, 22:36   #17
Team-BHP Support
 
SmartCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 5,330
Thanked: 29,553 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
Wasn't there a news about a leak in the Telematics system in Honda thus resulting in the total outing of the customers trips, details etc? Seem to remember reading it somewhere, in fact it may have been BHPian Smartcat's own experience about getting someone else's car habits in his feed.
Here you go:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4408933 (Honda Connect data leaked! Personal details of thousands of Indian customers compromised)

"My car" was apparently 476 km from where I was - while actually, it was parked securely in my garage.

Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?-screenshot_20160819155807.jpg

Last edited by SmartCat : 7th September 2018 at 22:38.
SmartCat is online now   (6) Thanks
Old 8th September 2018, 09:26   #18
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 14,971
Thanked: 52,881 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunramaswamy View Post
So yeah I would never buy a car that comes with "connectivity" even if it means settling for alternatives.
The pace with which its progressing - I doubt there will be any 'alternatives' five years down the line. Everyone is jumping into this game - and you know the industry is up for a change when Maruti Suzuki jumps in too! Like I mentioned in the opening posts, companies like MSIL believes that 100% new cars will be connected in the near future, within another five years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJM1214 View Post
The car connectivity feature in Tesla cars impressed me. Along with monitoring car's performance, Music and media streaming is one of the major parts of Tesla's car connectivity feature.
Have read that Tesla can also send vehicle updates directly to the car. Now thats a level or two above the connected platforms we currently have in the market.

There was this news where Tesla updated cars real time for unlocking more power from the battery, to help out those trying to flee Hurrican Irma out of Florida - https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/10/1...del-s-x-60-60d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermodynamics View Post
Amazon, Google and Microsoft were talking about cloud computing. Back then, I just could not get the concept in my head nor could foresee the potential
True. Advances in Cloud Computing, Internet of Things, BigData Processing and Machine Learning technologies made this suddenly possible. And its only going to grow exponentially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
I am an user of the Skoda Connect platform on my Skoda Karoq.
Thank you. Very useful post. A part of the service is very useful indeed, but soon they might also evolve to a higher level of services like the Tesla one mentioned above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
I feel that it will all eventually become cheap after telematics becomes a norm
Nothing ever really becomes cheap, do they? Could just be that the companies will find that the data collected from us users is worth more money, than the subscription fees amount! Like Facebook offers its services 'free' to users, yet makes truckloads of money off it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
Please read my post fully before classifying it as OT.

Therefore, IMHO, a large bulk of the Indian car customer do not care or are not ready for these features yet. We are miles away from such things influencing their buying decision.
Your post in not only bang on topic - is one of the questions too. Clearly user demand did not drive the huge growth in this field, as you agree. But then, users will not be having another option few years down the line too. So potentially - the driver for growth in car connectivity is something else - probably the potential of all that 'data'.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 10th September 2018, 07:02   #19
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chennai
Posts: 63
Thanked: 50 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

My clear answer is Nay! I don't want to give out data about my car, my travel route and current position to 'secure' cloud where anyone can hack it. This trend is being forced on consumers to profit from both the subscription and data. This is a lucrative additional revenue stream for the car companies. We should collectively put up a strong resistance to this trend. The only problem is, I have no idea how it can be done! Personally, of course, I can probably use a GPS spoofer, but how to stop this trend of telematics? Any suggestions?
rselva is offline  
Old 10th September 2018, 09:46   #20
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 60
Thanked: 45 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rselva View Post
My clear answer is Nay! I don't want to give out data about my car, my travel route and current position to 'secure' cloud where anyone can hack it. This trend is being forced on consumers to profit from both the subscription and data. This is a lucrative additional revenue stream for the car companies. ....
One of the most neglected aspect of connected cars/telematics is privacy. One of my colleague recently bough a Maruti Suzuki. It was already 'connected'. All he needed to do was pay some money and access his 'own' data.

I am not sure if the data is pulled directly via built-in OBD(ish) device using bluetooth or some non-internet connected mechanism or if its getting sent to Maruti Suzuki servers and then pulled into the app via internet. If its the latter mechanism, it raises a major red flag. Maruti Suzuki, without owners's consent, is collecting car data, some of which can be easily PII (Personally identifiable information). I tried searching for it, but was unable to find a privacy policy that outlines usage of this data. In absence of such document, I have almost no doubt this data is either already sold to insurance companies or will be in future. And this doesn't even begin to account for location data that is tagged along with this car data.

And as far as I can work out, this can't turned off.

Last edited by needmorebhp : 10th September 2018 at 09:47. Reason: Formatting
needmorebhp is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th September 2018, 10:11   #21
BHPian
 
ank.nsit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 620
Thanked: 311 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORPION View Post
...

They have not understood the Indian market well enough. And am surprised Maruti hasn't either.

A different thought to this discussion.

Show-off is what is making this feature thrive in Indian market.

If a Jazz owner takes out his mobile and shows the Honda connect system to his peers (even though he hardly would be using it), the Baleno owner might feel low about his car.

Maruti - I feel will never loose out to its competitors on such low hanging features that hardly increase its costs.

Last edited by ank.nsit : 10th September 2018 at 10:12.
ank.nsit is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th September 2018, 10:13   #22
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 14,971
Thanked: 52,881 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rselva View Post
My clear answer is Nay! I don't want to give out data about my car, my travel route and current position to 'secure' cloud where anyone can hack it.
FYI - This is already compromised if you use Google maps. Infact, they even know which shops you stopped at, what are your food preferances, where is your home, work etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by needmorebhp View Post
And as far as I can work out, this can't turned off.
Unlike Honda and Toyota's OBD based solution, Maruti Suzuki seems to have a Telamatics based one. So there is a dedicated TCU which is communicating with NEXA servers whether you are viewing the data or not.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline  
Old 10th September 2018, 12:58   #23
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chennai
Posts: 63
Thanked: 50 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
FYI - This is already compromised if you use Google maps. Infact, they even know which shops you stopped at, what are your food preferances, where is your home, work etc. ...
That’s true. However, I believe, my Google data is protected by international privacy protection laws and cannot be sold to third parties. Also the data resides in relatively more secure servers than ‘secure’ Maruti cloud. Moreover, I can chose not to use map or I can use the offline version. TCUs can’t be switched off and the SIM card is integrated into the hardware, so the connected car owner has no control over the data transmission.
rselva is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th September 2018, 13:51   #24
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: India
Posts: 14
Thanked: 29 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Regarding privacy concerns for all these connected platforms, I think something similar to incognito mode has to be implemented on all these cars.

Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?-img_20180622_175152.jpg

^^^Incognito mode in Ather's S450 scooter...

These along with data privacy norms similar to EU GDPR are required to alleviate qualms related to connected vehicles.
arpanguha is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th September 2018, 14:30   #25
Distinguished - BHPian
 
BoneCollector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: BIHAR
Posts: 2,461
Thanked: 6,630 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Nice thread. I had raised a question in this thread

Link (Maruti to introduce ‘Suzuki Connect’ in India soon. EDIT: Now launched)

My question is regarding privacy concerns like many here, what if our data is leaked? I know nearly everything is available online. Still I would like to know the security of our data.

Another thing that I'm unable to comprehend, do these connected features let us immobilize the car in case it's been carjacked? It's not mentioned anywhere. I would like a telematics solution to keep me informed about my car's health as well as it's geographical status. It doesn't help if an alarm triggers after the car is already out of reach. Moreover, it should be integrated in such a way that if anyone tries to remove it, the car should get immobilized. In Maruti Nexa cars, it's being put up inside the dashboard as evident from images online. The thieves can very easily access it and remove it. This system doesn't immobilize the vehicle so it's better to get a proper telematics solution than a half hearted one.

I had an experience wherein the thieves were unaware of the telematics device's location and the vehicle was tracked easily. Link (White Bolero stolen. And then RECOVERED using GPS Tech!! Screenshots inside)

Last edited by BoneCollector : 10th September 2018 at 14:45.
BoneCollector is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 10th September 2018, 14:48   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,045
Thanked: 3,506 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

I am sorry, I am an old school student here and do not get convinced with this concept.

1. We get 100 calls from dealership asking to book an appointment since the service is due. This app will become another one in addition to those 100 calls. Will I decide my car purchase based on the number of calls I receive as reminders ? Personally NO

2. Regarding diagnosing the issues in the car proactively and remotely
When the dealers / mechanics or systems in those dealerships are NOT able to resolve the problems /complaints even after repeated visits of the car / owner to the dealership, how can this connected system diagnose the problem remotely by connecting to mobile ? This is just a joke. Even assuming that the app identifies the issue, what is the benefit that I get from these alerts? Another Intermittent visit to the dealership service centre and another hole in the pocket? And dealer might make money by saying some part has been replaced even if the app has given false alert. Honestly, our cars are anyway giving alerts and symptoms to the owners in terms of some change in sound, change in driving comfort, some change in the behavior, even without these alerts. So, I do not see any benefits personally

3. What is the use of 100 reminders that keep coming on your mobile about your car service, trips, etc when you are enjoying your time with family and friends. it is rather annoying than a useful feature in my opinion

I would rather avoid such apps and love to enjoy my time with family and friends AND a CAR that is most reliable rather than a unreliable car with all these alerts on my phone when I am sleeping peacefully.

Last edited by gkveda : 10th September 2018 at 14:51.
gkveda is online now   (3) Thanks
Old 10th September 2018, 14:51   #27
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 6,467
Thanked: 29,811 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

No, not one bit.

As it is I would distrust any and all automotive IT stuff. Even here in Western Europe too many mechanics don't even begin to understand the very basic of electronics and integrated system such as a connected platform.

There are of course, those that are very very good, but they are far and few between all dealers I know.

Just one example on how appalling current Car Companies are when it comes to dealing with IT stuff on cars. Our company has a large fleet of leased cars. Currently we have some 40 Ford Focus running around. Ford has not been able to upgrade the maps in these cars for the last one year. They have given excuse after excuse. Twice they informed us they had got the solution. On both occassion the first driver that went to the Ford Service centre reported it did not work. Compared to the complexity to a fully connected platform, upgrading a navigation system, in the workshop, with the mechanic standing next to it, should be easy. Not for this lot, shame on them!

So these guys still have a very long way to go, before I will let them remotely logon to my car and let them extract data, let alone change any data.

It's not that I am afraid of these sort of developments. In fact I am very much an early adaptor of this sort of stuff. It is just that the auto industry has proven itelf completely incompetent in making the necessary process, competence, attitude shifts.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 10th September 2018 at 14:52.
Jeroen is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 10th September 2018, 14:58   #28
BHPian
 
jailbird_fynix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: (ňÓ,)_\,,/
Posts: 465
Thanked: 3,028 Times
Default re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Although such technology in is still in its infancy right now, I see no reason why it shouldnt be a mandatory feature for all vehicles in the future.This is just like how we can expect all highway tolls to operate completely via fast-tag(now mandatory in all new cars) in the future.

Now when can we as owners find this useful?

- when it tells us "accurately" where our vehicle is.
- when it diagnoses a defect, notifies us and suggests viable solutions.
- when you need stats - driving analysis,trip,fuel efficiency,etc.

Alright,but all this comes at the price of privacy.As already mentioned in this thread, this is the major
fly in the ointment here.

Imagine a situation where after months of exhausting work, you decide to go for a solo long drive without a destination in mind.What excites you most about this trip is the fact that you're escaping from your daily worries and nobody knows where you're going.But if your car is connected you're probably being watched on someone's computer or mobile screen -figuring out where you're headed,recording each and every road you take,the places you halted,the tolls you crossed.("Big Brother is watching")

Atleast we have a choice now
jailbird_fynix is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 11th September 2018, 12:07   #29
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 14,971
Thanked: 52,881 Times
Default Re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
My question is regarding privacy concerns like many here, what if our data is leaked?
In the Indian context, I doubt nothing much would happen. As it happened with the case of Honda India - they just sent out a press mailer that they 'regret' leaving all the personal data out for public view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneCollector View Post
In Maruti Nexa cars, it's being put up inside the dashboard as evident from images online.
My understanding is that (and I could be wrong) the device installed in the dashboard is only the consumer integration part of their unit. They speak of a dedicated TCU which is already present in cars, the unit you buy only enables you to view that data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkveda View Post
I am sorry, I am an old school student here and do not get convinced with this concept.
Lets hope then that these systems remain optional for a bit longer than current industry estimates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
It's not that I am afraid of these sort of developments. In fact I am very much an early adaptor of this sort of stuff. It is just that the auto industry has proven itelf completely incompetent in making the necessary process, competence, attitude shifts.
Thanks for that post. Agree with your points. I think the main problem till date was that automobile companies were deep rooted in their century old traditions and were half heartedly embracing technology only to keep themselves afloat amidst competition.

However - the potential of a huge disruption by the likes of Tesla and even Uber seems to have woken them up. Customers in the western markets seem to be moving towards shared mobility and enhanced cabin experiences.

Since you take Ford as an example - it is interesting how reluctant Ford were earlier, but since early this year - they have jumped into the world of technology with full force. They established a subsidiary called Ford Mobility Services LLC, made more than a couple of company acquisitions, and even established a separate R&D division (Ford X) outside of both traditional Ford and the new Ford Mobility divisions.

I guess most of the realize that the only way forward is to embrace the change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jailbird_fynix View Post
I see no reason why it shouldnt be a mandatory feature for all vehicles in the future.
Could be a part of a future regulation as well - SIAM could lobby the government about drivers becoming more responsible and fuel efficiency conscious after using the apps.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline  
Old 11th September 2018, 13:52   #30
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 61,629
Thanked: 209,932 Times
Default Re: Connected car platforms: Do they influence your car purchase decisions?

Frankly, nothing that these apps do is of interest to me. Most of the stuff has novelty value, some of it is 'good to have', but nothing is 'must have'. I'd say that car makers should focus on making Android Auto & Apple CarPlay standard as that will benefit almost every owner of their cars.

Equally, I might add that this is just the initial implementation of connected car apps. Am sure they will evolve with time and manufacturers will find a way to pack more useful stuff in them. As things stand today though, I couldn't care less about them.
GTO is offline   (4) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks