[Latheesh]

My 2 Paisa
- Because Toyota owners are used to paying high price more than it's worth.
- Most luxury car households have a people mover as a beater car and it is mostly an Innova/Fortuner
- May be I should buy a Liva now upgrade to a Lexus in few years!

Their current dealership locations are New Delhi, Gurgaon, Mumbai, and Bangalore. So 40-50% of sales coming from NCR region is not surprising at all. I did not even know their Bangalore dealer location until now.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Their current dealership locations are New Delhi, Gurgaon, Mumbai, and Bangalore. So 40-50% of sales coming from NCR region is not surprising at all.

True that! Didn't cross check that they only have four dealerships. Surprised, since I thought you would have easily expanded thanks to Toyota dealerships wanting to have Lexus network as well!

Secondly - It would be surprising if Delhi - NCR count is equal or less than Mumbai - Bangalore count. The fear of diesels being banned in future regulations is much worse in the NCR region than down south!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by androdev

I would be curious to know if most of them would be Toyota owners who also own German luxury cars.

An excellent point! Most German car owners I know have an Innova in the house. Even BHPian Mad Monkey - who owns an E-Class as well as a Land Rover - has an Innova which his dad loves to be chauffeur-driven in. IIRC, BHPian Sahil (who owns an S-Class) has either an Innova or a Corolla or both.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I'm interested to know the overall sales figure too

It's so poor that they won't even report it.

Originally Posted by nik_kapur

Saw the new ES in person a couple of times and its bling level next.

Saw one in Andheri and man, it is seriously a rapper's car!

Originally Posted by ashlil

Statistics are useless unless the sample size is big enough. It is like saying, 100% of the people in my room are scientists (my room essentially housing me alone).

[Axe77]

Frankly, this makes perfect sense. With a Lexus hybrid you have more confidence from the standpoint of adverse policy shifts too. Delhi most people have long distances and they have suffered Diesel bans. Buying a hybrid makes that much more sense over a petrol.

If I had to flip my diesel BMW into another luxury car, I would seriously consider a Lexus sedan as a petrol hybrid purchase.

Another point is I would be much more confident buying a 1-2 yr old Lexus 2nd hand with a 7-9 year ownership outlook over other Germans.

My only small grouse is I feel the Lexus is just a tad overpriced (but then who isn't) - IMO about 7-8 lakhs cheaper would have been a sweeter price point but then these things can be very subjective.

PS: On a side note the all new next gen Camry looks a lot plusher. If the price delta is attractive enough, it may poach some potential Lexus owners into the Camry fold. I did feel the Camry back seat is actually a tad more comfortable than the Lexus ES.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by GTO

An excellent point! Most German car owners I know have an Innova in the house.

I am almost done with BMW, have sold all except an X5 which should also go shortly. Everything new is from Toyota only. Would have loved to pick the LX or LS but for the abnormal prices. ES will surely get them numbers especially here in North due to the Hybrid factor and I have also seen some NX being driven by Ladies here.

For some reasons I had to visit Toyota Gurgaon dealership which handles the Lexus as well, these guys are seriously overloaded and despite a large setup, just getting in your car at the Bay can take hours. They have the workshop on the 3rd Floor. Sooner or later, they will have to invest in a separate Lexus workshop, BMW workshops were much better comparatively. Even the tools and the overall cleanliness or the equipment at BMW appears to be better. So as the volumes grow, they have to build infrastructure.

They want to have a different sales experience with Lexus and that's the reason they have not given Lexus dealership everywhere, Chandigarh being the exception where they don't have anything for Lexus but they are doing some numbers because of the demand and overall goodwill of their local dealer.

[vinit.merchant]

The reason why overpriced Toyotas and Lexus cars sell today is the same, that was 20 years back when people bought overpriced mercs. Reliability.

I seriously do not understand why this logic is not thrown into the picture when comparing with the big 3 Germans. The big 3 Germans would, no doubt, be very good cars, but they have a shelf life as far as reliability is concerned. I do not know what number to put here for them. 3 years? 4? I wont go beyond 5 years, I personally feel that is the max.

This was discussed in some other thread too. And the conclusion was more or less the same there. With a 6 year old big 3 and a 6 year old Swift in the garage, not many would pick the german for a 1000 kms drive.

But 20 years back, people paid a hefty premium for reliability of the W123's and a few other models from their stable. Safe, reliable, comfortable. (some of these beauties are still running quite well)

And people will continue to pay this premium for this quality, brand notwithstanding.

[TallBoy]

They now have one in Hyderabad too.

Originally Posted by Latheesh

My 2 Paisa
Their current dealership locations are New Delhi, Gurgaon, Mumbai, and Bangalore.

[Latheesh]

^^
As per website Hyderabad, Chennai, Chandigarh, and Kochi have just service centers.

[Vulken Auto]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

^^
As per website Hyderabad, Chennai, Chandigarh, and Kochi have just service centers.

Nope there is a lexus showroom near my house in hyderabad. Film nagar a.k.a jubilee hills.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

The reason why overpriced Toyotas and Lexus cars sell today is the same, that was 20 years back when people bought overpriced mercs. Reliability.

But 20 years back, people paid a hefty premium for reliability of the W123's and a few other models from their stable. Safe, reliable, comfortable. (some of these beauties are still running quite well)

And people will continue to pay this premium for this quality, brand notwithstanding.

Thank you vinit.merchant. You put it very well. As a Lexus and Camry owner I was almost scared to write here that the premium has a reason lest I get thrashed for scurrilous writings.

We often times find posts complaining about Toyota/Lexus's arrogance and their cheek to charge a hefty price. But I don't hear many Toyota/Lexus owners trading that complaint. Our Camry (stays in the office as the official hack) has done 200k + over about I think 12+ years and the performance remains flawless and other than parts being replaced on schedule at the service periods it has needed absolutely nothing. And of course Toyota's A.S.S, remains helpful and courteous. If we paid a few lakhs extra on day one that extra has been recovered several times over not just in cost but availability, downtime and hassle factor too. It all boils down to Rs 3 to 5 lakhs more on Day 1 or Rs 10 lakhs more over the next 10 years and some aggravation to go with it.

Now I only wish Toyota and Lexus convert their excellence in engineering reliability to excellence in looks

[landcruiser123]

I'm sure a lot of these owners will have an Innova or Fortuner. I sure hope he didn't mean that there are so many people who upgrade to a Lexus from a Toyota.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Lexus would have been happy if 80% Toyota owners bought a Lexus.

That would not make Lexus owners exclusive right?
Imagine all those cabbies lining up in front of a Lexus showroom

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by R2D2

But then I am a bit concerned about a hybrid car's battery life.

Should be the least of your worries. Remember, its a Toyota. The technology today is an evolution of their first hybrid that hit the market 20 years ago. No other company has had the success of Hybrid power trains as much as Toyota.

As ugly as a Prius is, the fact that it gives almost 900km on a tankful gas is an achievement. Every time I sit in one of these or even a Camry, I am always looking at that funky display that shows if its the IC only, IC+Electric Motor or Electric only mode. The way the engine seamlessly kicks in is to be experienced.

Want S5 thrills from a Lexus. Get a GS F. 5l. V8. Rear wheel drive. There are some weird things about it like the funny tail pipe set up and the front end that does not have too much a fan following apart from the Lexus camp (I kinda like it). Not to forget, it will never ever let you down.

A Lexus will never trump a German. There is a different appeal to a Lexus that I can't explain. You have to experience it for yourself.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

We often times find posts complaining about Toyota/Lexus's arrogance and their cheek to charge a hefty price. But I don't hear many Toyota/Lexus owners trading that complaint.

I was indeed just smiling reading all the comments on this thread and wondering exactly this. Toyota owners never seem to complain about the prices as most are past customers and others are there after getting feedbacks from their family and friends regarding the brand ownership experience. Call them ugly, featureless or overpriced, the owners seem to love the ownership experience and most Innovas are replaced with Innovas only. The same is going to rub off on the Lexus. Only problem is that the luxury car market is still not the volumes market in our country. Also traditionally people here have known only the brands like Mercedes/BMW/Audi and that is the reason other brand struggle to sell. A Volvo XC40 will not sell as much as a BMW X1 even though the former ha cutting edge technology and what not. Change the badge to a BMW XC40 and it may just do wonders.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I was indeed just smiling reading all the comments on this thread and wondering exactly this. Toyota owners never seem to complain about the prices as most are past customers

Well said Dr.

I think most Toyota Owners are ordinary folks for whom a car is an instrument to get from A to B reliably, safely and comfortably and with minimum mind space taken up by A.S.S. issues and dealer attitudes. They prize different attributes than those who may buy the German brands. Different priorities - both with their own place in the sun.

Also traditionally people here have known only the brands like Mercedes/BMW/Audi and that is the reason other brand struggle to sell.

Till the early-1990s the only luxury car the average rich owner in India recognized was the Mercedes. Same way today the mind set is focused on the German-3 by and large. For a rich buyer who doesn't understand cars too well and is looking for a luxury car buying a German-3 is a safe bet as that is what all his friends and neighbours are buying. The German-3 get credit for converting well heeled Indians to spending so much on a car and creating this market for luxury cars. In 10 years I suspect the mindset will change. Only challenge Toyota has is that because their cars run reliably forever one is not encouraged to buy a new one too often. Lexus, I don't think is in any hurry. They will trot along at their own pace for some time till they feel ready for a big push. They wont reduce prices beyond a point too. What their logic is I don't know. Nor do I know if someone who is willing to pay 60L will he hold back spending 70L. A customer would be happy if they aren't selling in thousands, for now at least - gives some exclusivity for a little while longer.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

I think most Toyota Owners are ordinary folks for whom a car is an instrument to get from A to B reliably, safely and comfortably and with minimum mind space taken up by A.S.S. issues and dealer attitudes.

You can also add folks who got fed up with tantrums of Germans

For a rich buyer who doesn't understand cars too well and is looking for a luxury car buying a German-3 is a safe bet as that is what all his friends and neighbours are buying.

Agree, recently I proposed ES to one of my colleagues in Kolkatta but that guy does not even want to look at Lexus/ Toyota and is keen only to buy a 5 or E.

The German-3 get credit for converting well heeled Indians to spending so much on a car and creating this market for luxury cars.

I will say, this is due to change in the earnings, global exposure and overall certainties in the life/ work for many Indians. And this is visible everywhere, not just in the luxury cars.

Only challenge Toyota has is that because their cars run reliably forever one is not encouraged to buy a new one too often.

It actually works both ways, Toyota normally does not change their models so fast either, They have changed Innova and Fortuner only once in the past decade.

Lexus, I don't think is in any hurry. They will trot along at their own pace for some time till they feel ready for a big push

I doubt they will go for the numbers until they have CKD operations, even then given the way they operate, I don't see any major difference.

They wont reduce prices beyond a point too.

Agree, like they have so many spare capacities for the Liva twins, they won't discount or compromise on the quality and produce more.

What their logic is I don't know. Nor do I know if someone who is willing to pay 60L will he hold back spending 70L.

It works when there is no competition like in Fortuner, no matter how they price, there will be customers. Same holds good for Innova too. Mahindra's and Tatas had a chance to become Toyota's of India but they do too many compromises on Quality.

A customer would be happy if they aren't selling in thousands, for now at least - gives some exclusivity for a little while longer.

with the newer ES I bet.