Wagon-R Vs. Estilo.. Is Wagon-R crowding the portfolio?

nikhil3456 · 5th January 2007, 22:25

Ever since i heard & saw the Estilo launch, I have been wondering do we need the Wagon-R anymore? The prices are almost the same. After the test-drive, I observed that the Estilo looks better, feels better, has better aerodynamics
and due to its reduced weight (in comparison to its boxy cousin) it will have better fuel efficiency.. Then why would people want to buy the Wagon-R?

One theory I have is:
I heard Mr. Khattar say that by the end of this financial year, we can expect a diesel version of the Estilo, but Maruti doesnt have plans to release a LPG version of it.. Whereas Wagon-R has LPG.
So i guess, they'll market the 2 cars in the non-petrol segment this way:
You want LPG? Come buy the Wagon-R..
No? You prefer diesel? Fine! Estilo is the car for you!!

I would like to hear others opinions on this matter..

CrAzY dRiVeR · 6th January 2007, 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhil3456

Ever since i heard & saw the Estilo launch, I have been wondering do we need the Wagon-R anymore? The prices are almost the same. After the test-drive, I observed that the Estilo looks better, feels better, has better aerodynamics
and due to its reduced weight (in comparison to its boxy cousin) it will have better fuel efficiency.. Then why would people want to buy the Wagon-R?

One theory I have is:
I heard Mr. Khattar say that by the end of this financial year, we can expect a diesel version of the Estilo, but Maruti doesnt have plans to release a LPG version of it.. Whereas Wagon-R has LPG.
So i guess, they'll market the 2 cars in the non-petrol segment this way:
You want LPG? Come buy the Wagon-R..
No? You prefer diesel? Fine! Estilo is the car for you!!

I would like to hear others opinions on this matter..

I hope, me being a wagonR owner doesnt affect my reply... Is the zen lighter than wagonR??? Even maruti site says zen estilo is 30 kgs more than the wagonR

My father had a huge liking for the zen brand... He wanted to exchange our wagonR for the estilo... Went and checked it out, but realised that it is too cramped... Ok, if i were to chose between santro and estilo, i'd go for estilo... But, after owning the spacious wagonR, dont feel like going back to a smaller car...

Also... The zens 1.0L engine was discontinued because it was a tight fit in the estilo engine bay... then how come, they can launch a diesel??? Source of info???

Now... Saying all these... if i were to buy a new car for me, i'd buy the estilo only, cause it more of a drivers car than wagonR, is new, and got a better feel to it... If i were to buy one for family, and comfort matters, i'd stick to the wagonR... (actually, thinking of going for a duo)

nikhil3456 · 6th January 2007, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I hope, me being a wagonR owner doesnt affect my reply... Is the zen lighter than wagonR??? Even maruti site says zen estilo is 30 kgs more than the wagonR

My father had a huge liking for the zen brand... He wanted to exchange our wagonR for the estilo... Went and checked it out, but realised that it is too cramped... Ok, if i were to chose between santro and estilo, i'd go for estilo... But, after owning the spacious wagonR, dont feel like going back to a smaller car...

Also... The zens 1.0L engine was discontinued because it was a tight fit in the estilo engine bay... then how come, they can launch a diesel??? Source of info???

Yup, you are right about the weight! The Maruti dealers have got their facts wrong. Estilo is 25kgs heavier than the Wagon R.

As far as the diesel version is concerned I dont have the Times of India clipping which has Mr. Khattar's statement. However, I found it in the Hindu online version. link: The Hindu : Other States / Rajasthan News : Diesel version of Zen Estilo coming

sreedotk · 6th January 2007, 09:05

Few reasons i can think of continuing with the Wagon R instead of replacing it is

1. To continue the loyal wagon R buyer crowds.
2. It is not that much more expensive to continue building the Wagon R with the Estilo
3. It increase the choice the customer has in the same segment( Case if i was going to buy a Wagon R, Estilo, Santro, Indica, segment car then Maruti would have more chances to convert a buyer as they have twice as many choices for the same car maker)

As for sticking in a diesel engine, the fiat multi get is said to be a really compact engine so it could possibly fit in to the engine bay.

Quote from wiki "At the time of the launch this was the smallest 4 cylinder Diesel engine available and is capable of remarkable fuel economy"

So it is possible

regards

rahul_intlad · 6th January 2007, 11:39

GM itself would be following a similar pattern with regards to the chevrolet matiz and the U-va.With the base price tag of around 4 lakhs for the U-va it would be competition for the higher end models of the matiz unless of course the matiz and the u-va share a similar platform/components and GM is able to achieve economies of scale with the U-va,thereby continue selling the U-va at a premium while passing on the lower costs to the matiz.

Maruti policy is, so long as the customer remains within the Maruti family who cares.

theMAG · 6th January 2007, 12:04

Irrespective of collective numbers, 2 or more similar USP models are too much of an overkill. The cleaner and better option would be to have 1 model of that category with multiple variants in that price bracket. And basically Maruti or any manufacturer in India would rather manufacture brooms than remove a model line without the customer demand falling .

ownerofazkaban · 6th January 2007, 23:39

Had been again to the showroom today.

Wagon R rear seat is better, more comfortable. Also the rear space is better even thouigh they share the same WB.

Wagon R will stay around for some time.

I Am getting so confused, even the width specified in the spec is no use and I couldn't get a measuring tape today. Next week am again heading back to maruti showroom with a tape... don't be surprised with the results. The rear seats has some interesting comparisions for swift, wagonR, estilo and M800.

Mpower · 7th January 2007, 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Also... The zens 1.0L engine was discontinued because it was a tight fit in the estilo engine bay... then how come, they can launch a diesel???

How do you know it was a tight fit. Maruti dropped the engine because it dosent make sense to have 2 different engines that are so close in specification. Before this they had 3 engines (M1000 engine). Besides the 1.1 is cheaper and torquier.

lamborghini · 7th January 2007, 08:21

Maybe Maruti hopes to get an increased no of sales.
Afterall, Maruti would be getting a chunk of Santro's sales and will lose some WagonR sales to the Estilo but the loss in the WagonR's sales will still stay in the Maruti family and the Estilo sales will increase as buyers who would have bought a Santro or an Indica would now buy the Estilo so for Maruti, this is an overall increase in sales.
Also, i read somewhere that 30% of Maruti WagonR sales have been for the Duo.
BTW, the Estilo comes with the WagonR's 1.1lt engine which is bigger than the zen's engine. I think Maruti probably discontinued it to gain from economies of scale by manufacturing only 1.1lt engines. Producing the 1.0 lt engine would have added to costs.
Cheers

CrAzY dRiVeR · 7th January 2007, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

How do you know it was a tight fit. Maruti dropped the engine because it dosent make sense to have 2 different engines that are so close in specification. Before this they had 3 engines (M1000 engine). Besides the 1.1 is cheaper and torquier.

Blame that one the ACI guys... Some of their earlier spy thingies had mentioned so... Anyway...

Its seems hyundai is going to do the same...

Santro against estilo...

New pa (Overdrive scoop... I think it must be kia picanto) against wagonR...

Getz against swift...

Equus · 7th January 2007, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahul_intlad

Maruti policy is, so long as the customer remains within the Maruti family who cares.

Absolutely! Sibling rivalry is perfectly fine as long as it doesnt affect much to the bottomline.

Buy whatever, the zen or wagonR or alto or the maruti stock :-)
But buy maruti!!!

mithun · 8th January 2007, 05:21

I don't think that WagonR needs to be phased out since it's a more practical car than Estilo. The only pros of Estilo is a marginally more engine refinement and good interiors.

And I think WR is a wise option for family usage than Estilo.

But if I want a more sportier option, I would just shell out some 60,000 more and get a Swift rather than fancying Estlio.

ownerofazkaban · 29th January 2007, 10:56

Wagon R has the same seats as Estilo, some more bad news... 16.5"x44"

Swift's rear seat is 3 inch wide and 2 inches longer thigh length. 19"x47".

so a 800 has better wider,longer seat dimention than wagonR, Estilo ?

khanak · 29th January 2007, 11:26

I guess more than anything else the customer is getting really confused...nd may find a solution outside the "maruti family" Plus having too very similar models cant be really helping economies of scale too much....I think they shouldnt have introduced the estilo or should have discontinued the wagon r nd made the estilo the new wagon r or somthing...

sbasak · 29th January 2007, 14:53

Maruti has a nasty habit of kicking out their own child (eg. Alto VX, now possibly WangoR) to promote some other of their children. I don't understand their policy of "eating into sales" because the car they kick out also belong to their own family. So, if they keep both Estillo and WangonR - they shouldn't lose any money.

But, if they do it, definitely it would be for purpose.

So, what can it be? More profit margin in Estillo?

I can't understand the strategy. Only thing I understand that more models in market, more choice for consumers, less price for used cars. Simple.

5th January 2007, 22:25	#1
nikhil3456 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 42 Thanked: 11 Times	Wagon-R Vs. Estilo.. Is Wagon-R crowding the portfolio? Ever since i heard & saw the Estilo launch, I have been wondering do we need the Wagon-R anymore? The prices are almost the same. After the test-drive, I observed that the Estilo looks better, feels better, has better aerodynamics and due to its reduced weight (in comparison to its boxy cousin) it will have better fuel efficiency.. Then why would people want to buy the Wagon-R? One theory I have is: I heard Mr. Khattar say that by the end of this financial year, we can expect a diesel version of the Estilo, but Maruti doesnt have plans to release a LPG version of it.. Whereas Wagon-R has LPG. So i guess, they'll market the 2 cars in the non-petrol segment this way: You want LPG? Come buy the Wagon-R.. No? You prefer diesel? Fine! Estilo is the car for you!! I would like to hear others opinions on this matter..
	() Thanks

6th January 2007, 09:05	#4
sreedotk BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 247 Thanked: 90 Times	Few reasons i can think of continuing with the Wagon R instead of replacing it is 1. To continue the loyal wagon R buyer crowds. 2. It is not that much more expensive to continue building the Wagon R with the Estilo 3. It increase the choice the customer has in the same segment( Case if i was going to buy a Wagon R, Estilo, Santro, Indica, segment car then Maruti would have more chances to convert a buyer as they have twice as many choices for the same car maker) As for sticking in a diesel engine, the fiat multi get is said to be a really compact engine so it could possibly fit in to the engine bay. Quote from wiki "At the time of the launch this was the smallest 4 cylinder Diesel engine available and is capable of remarkable fuel economy" So it is possible regards
	() Thanks

6th January 2007, 11:39	#5
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,579 Thanked: 4 Times	GM itself would be following a similar pattern with regards to the chevrolet matiz and the U-va.With the base price tag of around 4 lakhs for the U-va it would be competition for the higher end models of the matiz unless of course the matiz and the u-va share a similar platform/components and GM is able to achieve economies of scale with the U-va,thereby continue selling the U-va at a premium while passing on the lower costs to the matiz. Maruti policy is, so long as the customer remains within the Maruti family who cares. Last edited by rahul_intlad : 6th January 2007 at 11:44.
	() Thanks

6th January 2007, 12:04	#6
theMAG Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Avon, CT Posts: 7,217 Thanked: 1,807 Times View My Garage	Irrespective of collective numbers, 2 or more similar USP models are too much of an overkill. The cleaner and better option would be to have 1 model of that category with multiple variants in that price bracket. And basically Maruti or any manufacturer in India would rather manufacture brooms than remove a model line without the customer demand falling .
	() Thanks

6th January 2007, 23:39	#7
ownerofazkaban BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BLR Posts: 456 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	wagonR is here to stay. Had been again to the showroom today. Wagon R rear seat is better, more comfortable. Also the rear space is better even thouigh they share the same WB. Wagon R will stay around for some time. I Am getting so confused, even the width specified in the spec is no use and I couldn't get a measuring tape today. Next week am again heading back to maruti showroom with a tape... don't be surprised with the results. The rear seats has some interesting comparisions for swift, wagonR, estilo and M800.
	() Thanks

7th January 2007, 08:21	#9
lamborghini Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 6,113 Thanked: 5,760 Times View My Garage	Maybe Maruti hopes to get an increased no of sales. Afterall, Maruti would be getting a chunk of Santro's sales and will lose some WagonR sales to the Estilo but the loss in the WagonR's sales will still stay in the Maruti family and the Estilo sales will increase as buyers who would have bought a Santro or an Indica would now buy the Estilo so for Maruti, this is an overall increase in sales. Also, i read somewhere that 30% of Maruti WagonR sales have been for the Duo. BTW, the Estilo comes with the WagonR's 1.1lt engine which is bigger than the zen's engine. I think Maruti probably discontinued it to gain from economies of scale by manufacturing only 1.1lt engines. Producing the 1.0 lt engine would have added to costs. Cheers
	() Thanks

8th January 2007, 05:21	#12
mithun BANNED Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,195 Thanked: 268 Times	I don't think that WagonR needs to be phased out since it's a more practical car than Estilo. The only pros of Estilo is a marginally more engine refinement and good interiors. And I think WR is a wise option for family usage than Estilo. But if I want a more sportier option, I would just shell out some 60,000 more and get a Swift rather than fancying Estlio.
	() Thanks

29th January 2007, 10:56	#13
ownerofazkaban BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BLR Posts: 456 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	Wagon R has the same seats as Estilo, some more bad news... 16.5"x44" Swift's rear seat is 3 inch wide and 2 inches longer thigh length. 19"x47". so a 800 has better wider,longer seat dimention than wagonR, Estilo ?
	() Thanks

29th January 2007, 11:26	#14
khanak Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai/Toronto Posts: 2,799 Thanked: 268 Times View My Garage	I guess more than anything else the customer is getting really confused...nd may find a solution outside the "maruti family" Plus having too very similar models cant be really helping economies of scale too much....I think they shouldnt have introduced the estilo or should have discontinued the wagon r nd made the estilo the new wagon r or somthing...
	() Thanks

29th January 2007, 14:53	#15
sbasak BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CCU-LTN Posts: 608 Thanked: 14 Times	Maruti has a nasty habit of kicking out their own child (eg. Alto VX, now possibly WangoR) to promote some other of their children. I don't understand their policy of "eating into sales" because the car they kick out also belong to their own family. So, if they keep both Estillo and WangonR - they shouldn't lose any money. But, if they do it, definitely it would be for purpose. So, what can it be? More profit margin in Estillo? I can't understand the strategy. Only thing I understand that more models in market, more choice for consumers, less price for used cars. Simple.
	() Thanks