[doxinboy]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

Safari/Storme at 443 and Hexa at 280. Can we call this overrated van a sales dud now.

Interesting analysis sir, though shallow. I fail to understand why people worship similar looking German marquee as a SUV and fail to acknowledge when it comes to TATA. I agree the sales are dismal, but that doesn't make Hexa an overrated van.

[ayankm]

Originally Posted by trinity0114

Cars which sell much more than they deserve are overrated....

Absolutely agree with this statement. Look at the sales figure of Baleno, for eg. Maruti should ideally give a term life insurance for every Baleno that it sells. The quality of the body is the less said the better.

With respect to Hexa, I personally feel people were apprehensive about the product from Tata, although quality-wise its top notch. Hexa came at a time when Tata was still coming out of the Indica phase which was largely used as a taxi. If someone is putting in 15L in a car, why would he/she choose Hexa? It definitely was a product ahead of its time that the market was not ready to accept wholeheartedly. If Hexa was launched after/during the Tiago + Nexon success, it would have sold much more.

[motorworks]

One of the biggest disappointments in sales has been the Santro. It is present in a segment where volumes are very high and yet it is not able to hit at least 9-10k sales consistently, and sales of Santro are actually lesser than Creta, i20 and Grand i10.

I think Hyundai got the pricing wrong. The Santro does feel expensive for what it offers.
Just to quote an example, I was looking out for a car for my wife 3 months ago and we looked at all possibilities. The Top end Santro is priced at close to 6.5 lakhs on road in Bangalore. And the top end variant lacks features like alloys, ACC etc, so the mid variants of the Grand i10 actually make better sense than the top end Santro. Eventually we picked up an Elite i20 Magna for a very similar price.
Hyundai has to revise the pricing and variant list of the Santro to make some impact, plus they surely need to make dual airbags standard. Even the Kwid has them now.

[adithya.kp]

What will people who own a C2 sedan or a compact SUV (Creta/Duster etc) upgrade to?

(Elantra+Altis+Octavia+Tucson+CRV+Tiguan) = 628. This is shocking. I am not sure why the number is so low. May be the pricing. Here is the on road price in Bangalore. ( Petrol top variant. Except Tiguan which doesn't have a petrol)
(Elantra 23.85, Altis 25.57, Civic 26.63, Octavia 29.70, Tucson 29.96, CRV 35.15, Tiguan 39.80)

(Note: I haven't included Compass and Harrier. These may not feel like an upgrade. Even their sales number is not impressive)

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

Safari/Storme at 443 and Hexa at 280. Can we call this overrated van a sales dud now. It stands no where near its competition be it XUV or Innova. Tata unnecessarily portrayed it as SUV, it is a tweaked Aria with some decent interiors. I am happy this product failed and Tata should at least now consider to revamp the Safari with AT and interiors like Hexa.

Hexa is an underrated SUV, not certainly anything like you claim. Perfect example of an overrated and over priced van is the innova, no matter the sales number.
Regarding Safari it is a peice of crap, well relegated to automotive history. Safari was shoddily built, plastics and trim atrocious and ill fitted, squeaks and rattles galore and that crap tailgate used to rattle unless oiled every week.
Future likes in the likes of Harrier and it's longer siblings not in rust buckets like sumo, serria or safari

[Karthik Chandra]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

Safari/Storme at 443 and Hexa at 280. Can we call this overrated van a sales dud now. It stands no where near its competition be it XUV or Innova. Tata unnecessarily portrayed it as SUV, it is a tweaked Aria with some decent interiors. I am happy this product failed and Tata should at least now consider to revamp the Safari with AT and interiors like Hexa.

Underrated is the word. There are lot of other cars from other manufacturers that are overrated and sell way too much beyond their merits.

Ok, let's see manufacturer wise.

Fiat, after more than 2 decades of operations, is on the verge of closing down.

Chevy, one of the biggest manufacturer worldwide, shut down operations in a market with ~2.8 lacs monthly volume. Very sad.

VW isn't able to bring in next gen mass market products and pedals a ten year old car and it's booted sibling. Funnily enough VW adds 2 features every six months and names the edition.

Skoda, a company that handpicks rogues as dealers who take money and don't deliver cars, swap parts worth lacs, deliver a different product under disguise.

Renault-Nissan, world's biggest alliance, is churning out flop after flop and isn't able to revive the brand that made it big in India.

Honda churned out 3 products out of a failed hatchback and we all know their fate with the exception of Amaze. Is it lack of innovation or lack of commitment to the market??? Not to mention the dip in quality levels.

Ford, the American giant, isn't able to manage more than one successful product at any given time.

The mighty Toyota isn't able to crack the sub 10 lac segment and the C2 sedan space despite minting $$$ in UVs.

TATA were on the verge of shutting down their PV business at one point in time but thanks to Karl Slym, Guenter Butschek, Pratap Bose & many others, Horizon next strategy & Impact design language, the company has rediscovered itself and growing.

I've seen a lot of hatred towards TATA in the past and rightly so because their products weren't desirable and quality wasn't their forte. But even after, what would possibly be the biggest redemption in Indian automobile history, I see people dismissing TATA without even checking the products. I believe this uncalled for hatred is what keeps elevating TATA motors to achieve new heights.

TATA is able to crack the sub 10 lacs segment which Toyota couldn't, is able to handle multiple successful products unlike Ford, is launching new products on new platforms unlike VW, is studying the market and launching exciting & relevant products unlike Renault Nissan, is working on improving quality aspects and VFM products unlike Honda, is fighting it out unlike Chevy & Fiat.

I might sound like a fanboy, I'm not, I'm just excited to see the turn around TATA has made and irate at the way in which TATA is dismissed. Sorry for the rant but whatever I've stated are facts. I don't see any tangible reason why TATA Motors need to be looked down upon.

[pavi]

I was just thinking ‘who would be the go to manufacturer for the masses if Maruti shuts shop in India’. I think that would have given other manufacturers enough courage to introduce their best offerings in India as the success probability and volumes will be high. Just a wild thought, but I know Maruti/Suzuki won’t leave India as it’s their bread and butter or Indians will never leave Maruti/Suzuki.

[Mu009]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

Safari/Storme at 443 and Hexa at 280. Can we call this overrated van a sales dud now. It stands no where near its competition be it XUV or Innova. Tata unnecessarily portrayed it as SUV, it is a tweaked Aria with some decent interiors. I am happy this product failed and Tata should at least now consider to revamp the Safari with AT and interiors like Hexa.

I'll try to stay out of the underrated/overrated/van/SUV debate as much as possible for a passionate busybody like myself.

Here's what I've understood about the Safari. Assuming that even a marketing team as completely and utterly incompetent as Tata's would realise that a tarted up Safari - a macho, "proper looking" SUV with a cult following would do better than a tarted up Aria that no one wants to forget more than Tata, we are left with the question why? Why did they not give the Safari that treatment.

From what I've understood, it's that the platform is too old to waste time dressing up as the results wouldn't be satisfactory given the limitations of the platform - apparently, you just can't get those precision tolerances like in modern cars to give the car a sufficiently premium rattle-free feel. I think adding an AT wouldn't have been much of an issue.

Given that all LRs and RRs are now monocoques, I don't think we're going to see another BOF Tata PV - which is rather sad IMO. As many others have lamented more soulfully than me before, a 20 ex-showroom starting - 30L OTR top-end modern BOF Tata Safari with 4x4 (not AWD) would fill a rather glaring hole in the market.

IIRC, one of your posts post buying the Endeavour was along the lines of - everyone except the driver was generally happier in the Safari, primarily due to visibility and middle row comfort (ride and space). I completely feel your pain in a way I cannot sufficiently convey the depth of - sure, the Safari was old and prone to toppling, but the stadium seating and old-world platform visibility are something I am truly disappointed we shall probably never get again. Even now, whenever I look at the "awkward" shape, I seethe car for what it is - not a Tata, but a 30 year old discovery with a Tata engine in it.

Finally, FWIW, I somewhat agree with both sides of the Hexa argument. It is a severely underrated car, but an overrated MUV when called an SUV. That said, it is certainly more SUV than say, a Q7. It certainly gets a raw deal thanks to the van perception we can clearly see - SUVs are in, Estates and Vans are not - I don't see why we get rubbed raw when such an honest and pertinent opinion is expressed.

Brushing aside image issues and sales numbers, I see it a halfway house between a pansy crossover and a real BOF SUV - it's got AWD and a BOF, but not 4x4 , low-range or the requisite ADR angles to make it appeal to overlanders. In a country with the kind of roads we have, such a halfway house (especially one that is as comfortable, reliable and well put together as the Hexa) makes a lot of sense - but truly, in any developed nation, it is the prime example of why BOFs are being replaced with halfway capable and less bombastic crossovers - the off-road capability is similar (if not better) than the van-like Hexa, and is inline with what the market majority demands, and the rest of the package is way better in every way other than for prolonged and extensive rough road use.

Peace.

[octane_100]

While on Tata, Tigor is not doing good numbers while the old Zest is still able to occasionally match Tigor numbers. Also, size wise Zest is the more appropriate competition to rest of the CS in the market. Why not then do a Zest 2.0 with the diesel from Nexon? I always feel and believe that people at the bottom of the ladder should be more risk taking and experimental.

[krishnakarthik1]

Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy

ASS and the sales team that is a complete dud.

Says who my friend? How do you know? Do you own a Tata ? The same story being told for ages about ASS and its getting repetitive. There are so many of us sharing our countless experiences about how good the service is these days but unfortunately people like you come back to the same topic without proper knowledge.

We are no fanboys of Tata either. We just bought a beautiful vfm product and are happy with it. When you call a spade a spade it's correct and when we call a spade a spade it's not, is it? Say anything about the product or brand or pricing or numbers, its your personal opinion, lets respect that, but when something is being done properly give the due credit.

[soji]

Originally Posted by krishnakarthik1

Says who my friend? How do you know? Do you own a Tata ? The same story being told for ages about ASS and its getting repetitive. There are so many of us sharing our countless experiences about how good the service is these days but unfortunately people like you come back to the same topic without proper knowledge.

We are no fanboys of Tata either. We just bought a beautiful vfm product and are happy with it. When you call a spade a spade it's correct and when we call a spade a spade it's not, is it? Say anything about the product or brand or pricing or numbers, its your personal opinion, lets respect that, but when something is being done properly give the due credit.

I would choose to defer here. I have been to almost 4 TML dealerships in Bangalore over the last month and I can vouch the fact that the dealership's sales teams are pathetic no matter which dealership you go to. They lack basic customer service etiquettes right from the very first visit and requires you to follow up numerous times for any updates even if you choose to go ahead with the booking. It was only on my 4th attempt I finally found someone who understood "marketing/sales" and that's when I decided to book my car at that dealership.

I cannot comment on the After Sales Service because I have not been there, yet. But I did hear someone making a huge fuss just outside one of the dealerships mentioning that the service folks only added to more problem after service not fixing the original issue. I would refrain from mentioning the dealership details here.

I agree with you on the point that TML has put in a lot of efforts to refresh this brand over the years and it's the dealerships which fails to comply with the same. Their sales teams lacks training and this area is exactly where the focus should be since they're TML's fascia.

[turbowhistle]

Originally Posted by adithya.kp

What will people who own a C2 sedan or a compact SUV (Creta/Duster etc) upgrade to?

(Elantra+Altis+Octavia+Tucson+CRV+Tiguan) = 628. This is shocking. I am not sure why the number is so low. May be the pricing. Here is the on road price in Bangalore. ( Petrol top variant. Except Tiguan which doesn't have a petrol)
(Elantra 23.85, Altis 25.57, Civic 26.63, Octavia 29.70, Tucson 29.96, CRV 35.15, Tiguan 39.80)

(Note: I haven't included Compass and Harrier. These may not feel like an upgrade. Even their sales number is not impressive)

I had a Duster and that question used to come to mind more than often. Maybe pricing is the correct reason. I did not see myself spending 1.5 million on City/Verna because they did not make any sense and didn’t have the heart to put 2.5-3 million for Octavia ( love the car though)

I had started looking for pre owned Jettas but in the end I relocated to Germany for work and that’s how I got rid of the headache

[bf1983]

Originally Posted by krishnakarthik1

Says who my friend? How do you know? Do you own a Tata ? The same story being told for ages about ASS and its getting repetitive. There are so many of us sharing our countless experiences about how good the service is these days but unfortunately people like you come back to the same topic without proper knowledge.

We are no fanboys of Tata either. We just bought a beautiful vfm product and are happy with it. When you call a spade a spade it's correct and when we call a spade a spade it's not, is it? Say anything about the product or brand or pricing or numbers, its your personal opinion, lets respect that, but when something is being done properly give the due credit.

Sadly my experience with Tata has been pretty bad as well. I was looking out for a small car and had shortlisted Tiago, Ignia and i10. I put out my contact details on cardekho to see what offers I get for a 2018 model and within a few hours I got 2 - 3 calls from different Maruti dealers for the Ignis and 2 calls from Hyundai. No one from Tata bothered to get back to me.

Still I decided to finally call the Tata dealer near my house and no one picked up the phone when I called.

Afterwards my friend who bought a Tiago pushed me onto his dealer. I went to visit the dealer in Thane which is far from my house. He just gave me a quote and that was it. I had to ask for a test drive but he told me the car was out and no offer came to give me a TD later on.

The offer was quite good but it was for the later model which had the alloy wheels and two tweeters removed.

Once I removed the i10 from the list due to it being a bit over my budget I was trying to decide between the Tiago and the Ignis. But the whole sub par experience I had with the sales team of Tata I decided to avoid them and go for the Ignis even though it didn't feel as solid as the Tiago. In the end their sales guys did enough to push me away from buying a Tata.

After I paid the booking amount for the Ignis my local Tata dealer called me asking me if I was looking for a Tiago

[GTO]

Moderator Note: Enough with the discussion on the Hexa & Tata's after-sales / brand. Let's move on, guys.

[Carma2017]

The market is in a really bad shape with sales slowing down at almost all major manufacturers. The market expansion till date has been driven by Suzuki. With Suzuki slowing down and almost stalling for the past few months, expect things to get worse. New launches would be the only volume drivers this year and those don't bring profits. In short term, we can expect discounts to rule on existing models.