[karan561]

Toyota could have done so much to the Baleno to make it better;

1) Better/Stronger/Thicker Sheet Metal
2) New Bumpers (Front & Rear), New Fenders, New Mirrors, New Headlamps & Tail Lamps, Changes in Bonnet design/sculpture.
3) 1.5 L petrol Engine from the Yaris & 1.4 L D4D Diesel engine from the Altis.
4) Obviously Toyota Gearbox
5) New Interior Design

^ If above would have been done then Toyota would have some respect from the Enthusiast community & also the well informed car buyer.

The current job / attempt reflects Toyota's greed & attitude towards the Indian car buyer.

This is not a collaboration its a CON JOB !

[malgudi]

Toyota could have done a lot more. But we all know how Toyota operates in India. The management cares a hoot about the customers opinion on new cars and they rely solely on Innova and Fortuner.
In my opinion, if they had to do this with Baleno, they could as well have asked maruti customers to get their Balenos to Toyota service centres for service and as a complimentary gift swap their Suzuki badges with Toyota ones. They would have saved a lot of effort and money what with limited money that can be made on new cars versus the bulk being made in servicing the car.

[RoverX]

Great thread, Ajit sir. Apparently, badge engineering literally just means switching the badge, now! Toyota really deserves all the calling out on this stupid Baleno - Glanza move.

How stupid does Toyota think the average Indian car-buyer is? There is absolutely no novelty factor or technical differentiation to separate the Baleno from the Glanza (the name always cracks up my immature inner self ). The Baleno is doing excellent numbers on its own, and Maruti has already positioned it as a premium product by introducing it through the Nexa channel. Doesn't this badge-swapping (I refuse to glorify this asinine exercise by calling it engineering) negate all that effort? They could've at least plonked the sweet 1.5 petrol from the Etios to make it that much more desirable!

[Superleggera]

When Nissan Evalia was re-badged as Ashok Leyland Stile, even though AL is a newbie in MPV Space, they did a better job than Toyota. Its Toyota's attitude that sucks, they have the manpower, Technology and resources but they simply don't want to do anything more than logo swapping for "Cheap Indians"

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Superleggera

When Nissan Evalia was re-badged as Ashok Leyland Stile, even though AL is a newbie in MPV Space, they did a better job than Toyota. Its Toyota's attitude that sucks, they have the manpower, Technology and resources but they simply don't want to do anything more than logo swapping for "Cheap Indians"

Ouch, I was the guy who tested the Stile and I forgot about this. It was the Evalia with everything removed. It would have scored 3/6 as it had distinct looks, distinct variants and the Licensee frugal engineered the heck out of it!

[PrideRed]

Toyota can actually consider selling the grille and badge instead of the car. Will help to conserve some national resources, time etc. Glanza is going to be Grille/badge manufacturers dream. Toyota will hardly sell these but I am sure to see a lot more on road. Also I am curious to see how is Toyota planning to differentiate this from Baleno and what the USP is. This product would be a nightmare for me if I was a sales advisor at Toyota dealership .

[invidious]

Even within the same brand, they tend to use the same car from other markets. The early 2000s US specific Toyota Echo is eerily similar to the Toyota Etios launched much later in India.

Someone with better knowledge can also point to the Kia and Hyundai cars which while looking different might be based on the same platform.

[kubectl]

The latest and greatest Toyota Supra is also getting some flak for being a BMW Z4 under the hood.



This video explains it quite well -

https://youtu.be/4oC8cvUb0kI

It's not as blatant as the Baleno <-> Glanza badge swap, but falls somewhere in the badge engineering domain, I guess!?

[gauravanekar]

Although Toyota motor corp in Japan has a lot of cash, the Indian subsidiary is not in that much comfortable position. They have limited resources to reduce corporate average fuel economy. This is seen as the easiest route. But the problem is that everything depends on how many Glanzas are sold, if it's a sales dud, CAFE targets goes soup.
My wishful mind thinks why don't they completely re engineer Etios twins in and out to make it more desirable. All that is needed is new dashboard and a sharper front and rear, with some clever designing Etios is salvagable. The basics of that wonderful car is unquestionable.

[MaheshY1]

I'm myself confused about what value the Toyota and Maruti rebadging will add.

I really love Toyota's engineering for its longevity and reliability. I trust the automaker to look after my interests as a customer and make sure the dealers/service centers don't rip me off.

But, I can't decide if I want to take:
Maruti's engineering and Toyota's honest aftersales
OR
Toyota's engineering and Maruti's upselling service outlets?

[lamborghini]

I personally feel the VWAG has badge engineering nailed for most part.
From Seat to Skoda to VW to Audi - they have managed to create a good differentiator in the market and command a significant premium.

Similarly, I believe Kia and Hyundai would be able to do a similar job once launched in the market place.

Toyota on the other hand needs to rethink it's strategy.
Even with Lexus, they initially were able to create a difference (take the old camry hybrid v/s the ES as an example), but their newer models have closed in on the gap significantly IMO.

Globally this isn't a new concept - Honda and Acura, GM, Ford and Mazda, etc. have had a lot of successful runs with a diverse product line.

That being said, it is something that needs to be thought over in detail before executing. Often creating a new brand is not as easy if the other brand has already been established (Hyundai and Kia in India for example), and can prove to be an expensive task.

You have covered the points exceedingly well in your 6 point check-list, though to be fair IMO some points do carry a more weight - looks and distinct trims being key, along with incorporating respective manufacturer's traits.
For example: Toyota's are typically that much better built than Maruti's with a softer suspension and fewer rattles. Would the same hold true for the Glanza - only time will tell.

[aghate]

Wonderful thread Ajmat.

Regarding the Renault Duster's badge job I would say those are Dacia Cars(subsidiary of the French car manufacturer Renault since 1999). The Duster and Lodgy are from Dacia and are sold in India as Renault. Similar to the GM example you have shared. Yes, Nissan and Renault shared platforms with some of their cars but in the end they are not actually developed from respective manufacturers.

From an enthusiast perspective I would have loved to have the Renault Clio and Megane in India than the Pulse(rebadged Micra).

[redohabitat]

Originally Posted by shobhit.shri

Interesting thread! I think the same can be said about the Toyota/Nexus and Honda/Acura relationship.

Not true. Lexus and Acura are far advanced and much refined versions of their parent company products. A lexus base model has more features than that of a toyota's equivalent product.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by kubectl

The latest and greatest Toyota Supra is also getting some flak for being a BMW Z4 under the hood.

There is a big difference in that one is a cabriolet and the other is a coupe

[superbad]

It is clear from Toyota the amount of seriousness they've assigned to Glanza. I think it's intended nothing more than a "filler" till Toyota has something of its own.
To add a different perspective to this discussion, aside from attracting laughs & sniggers, I don't think Toyota has anything to lose because of Glanza. Look at it this way - the only resources used for development of this car were for the Toyota badge & advertisements. Thus the potential for RoI for Toyota on Glanza is very high.
The consumer has already done my research over the Baleno, so he knows it's a good car. Now Toyota, with next to zero efforts, is also on his radar. End choice will depend on the pricing & how much his brand preference is. But at least Toyota is within his consideration.