[HyperRetard]

Why does Tata continue selling the Sumo, Safari Storme, Bolt, Zest and the Tigor?
The Tigor was a half baked product that should have never been launched. The others should have been stopped ages ago.

And Tata, for the love of God, get a good brand ambassador for the Harrier, or just re-create that reclaim life ad (oh wait, no 4x4) :frustrati

[volkman10]

With a drop in market share in the UV segment, Maruti Suzuki is still the segment leader.




Link

[Sandeep500]

It's quite baffling to understand that if Kia motors can deliver about 6200 SUVs from their plant then why can't MG motors deliver such a number of their vehicles and clear their bookings hoping that they have equally big plant or the reason is that they are unable to get required quantity of engines and other parts from different manufacturers while Kia has their own engines and other parts.

[isldhn]

Originally Posted by Sandeep500

It's quite baffling to understand that if Kia motors can deliver about 6200 SUVs from their plant then why can't MG motors deliver such a number of their vehicles and clear their bookings hoping that they have equally big plant or the reason is that they are unable to get required quantity of engines and other parts from different manufacturers while Kia has their own engines and other parts.

Exactly. And I also believe that Kia has done their homework brilliantly in keeping inventory available when it matters. I have been getting calls from the local dealer asking if I want to prepone my purchase as I had informed them that I will take delivery of my HTX+ in mid October. This I agree is the way for a launch to be done because a launch is when you will generate maximum interest for the product. And you know in India how things go once a product is labelled as a dud, at or immediately after the launch. I estimate the September dispatches to match the August figures, even though there are Shradh days during September.

[motorworks]

Two points. One on the Seltos, these 6k numbers are initial dispatches and not really sales. And even if they were sales, it must be due to the consolidated bookings. Guess the real figures will be after 3-4 months. And to be fair, with limited presence, even if Kia does 2-3k per month consistently, and that too in this market condition, you should consider it as a success.

Second, the legendary and famed Civic clocks the same numbers that the Octavia does after all these years! Proves that the D segment sedan buyer is probably well informed! With less than half the showrooms in comparison, its a testament to the product that the Octavia is.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Sandeep500

It's quite baffling to understand that if Kia motors can deliver about 6200 SUVs from their plant then why can't MG motors deliver such a number of their vehicles and clear their bookings hoping that they have equally big plant or the reason is that they are unable to get required quantity of engines and other parts from different manufacturers while Kia has their own engines and other parts.

Kia make the engines, have access to Hyundai's supplier base and have a large capacity facility which was conceived 3-4 years ago.

MG import the petrol units, is dependent on Fiat for the Diesel engines. They need to forecast and place orders. The factory bought from GM might have had to be retrofitted and expanded.

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by ajmat

MG import the petrol units, is dependent on Fiat for the Diesel engines. They need to forecast and place orders. The factory bought from GM might have had to be retrofitted and expanded.

True, since their capacity is 3000 vehicles per month, they have to forecast probably every activity. The fixtures would have been modified on the pre-existing GM infrastructure.

[motorworks]

Sorry about another post in the same thread, but could not understand as to why the Marazzo is not doing so well. It seems to be well priced for what it offers and almost all reviews were of the opinion that it is a well engineered product all round. Is it the looks?
Mahindra seems to have a problem in their hands. Both XUV300 and the Marazzo have failed to take off the way they should have. In case of the XUV300, I think its the initial pricing and also the lack of boot space. Marazzo, well its a puzzle for me now.

[bmw_lover]

Below is an article from a guest author in Times of India on 17.9.19. I have deleted the off-topic parts.

Recipe For Recovery Arvind Panagariya (Professor of Economics at Columbia University)

Every crisis is an opportunity, so goes the saying. For Indian industry, it is an opportunity to lobby for a handout from the government at taxpayer’s expense. The auto industry’s case shows how far our industry leaders can cash in on this opportunity. Multiple representatives of auto industry have pleaded for help on the ground that this sector accounts for 50% of all manufacturing and has declined by 30%. Now, the latest press note on GDP by MOSPI reports that manufacturing as a whole grew 0.6% in the first quarter of 2019-20. Simple arithmetic show that this means that manufacturing other than auto grew a fantastic 31.2% during the quarter. Wow!

But let us give the auto industry some rope and accept that it is only human to exaggerate to attract attention in the midst of a crisis. Assume that the share of autos in manufacturing is not 50% but 30%, and that its sales fell not by 30% but 20%. Even then it follows that manufacturing other than auto grew a handsome 9.4% during the first quarter of 2019-20. Does anyone believe that?

A Reuters report also says that according to a senior industry source automakers, parts manufacturers and dealers have laid off 3,50,000 workers since April 2019. The same report also says, “Reuters was able to identify at least five companies that have recently cut or plan to cut hundreds of jobs, mainly from their temporary labour force.”

One would think that in a sector like auto in which employment is concentrated in large companies, it would be easy to pinpoint a large proportion of layoffs. Therefore, the fact that Reuters could only identify five companies with actual cuts or plans to cut hundreds, not thousands, of jobs and those too mainly from the temporary labour force, makes one wonder how the “senior industry source” arrived at the 3,50,000 figure. Could it be that actual layoffs are closer to a few thousand and not in hundreds of thousands?

The upshot is that the auto industry is simply not credible in its entreaties. It is building its case for relief on what appear to be concocted numbers. A crisis ought to be an opportunity for setting one’s house in order and restoring competitiveness. What the industry needs to do is seek relief from regulatory barriers that give undue power to bureaucrats, serve no public purpose and undermine productivity growth.

On its part, the government needs to view data provided by industry sceptically and subject them to careful scrutiny. More importantly, it must improve its own data gathering capacity and use effectively data that it may have at its disposal. For example, for assessing the employment situation, a good starting point would be the Periodic Labour Force Survey, which now publishes detailed industry-wise quarterly estimates for urban India.

I seriously think that there is no slump in the Auto sector. At least not as big as they are making it out. In fact it may just be a case of saturation. After all we have had more than a decade of increased disposable incomes, DINKs couples, easy credit availability, western consumerism due to which auto manufacturers have enjoyed double digit growth figures for quite some time now. And this kind of growth rate is not easy to maintain in any industry even in a fast growing economy. These growth rates were the sole reason why they developed the audacity to price their cars astronomically while skimping on features when compared to US products. C-class used to be around INR 30L when i was in college and now? Taxes alone can't be blamed especially for those who have manufacturing plants in India. If ISRO can manage Chandrayaan-2 in a budget that's just a 1/3rd of NASA's, surely the auto companies too can manage a lower build cost. So at best the products should be at par with the US models after accounting for high taxes. Auto sector crying out loud shall be a case of diminishing net profits due to slowness in growth rate via saturation and increased R&D expenditure in the new technologies which they are sort of forced to invest in. The new technologies are are proving so difficult that companies are rather going with acquisition route.

And for a moment lets divert to the success of Hector and Seltos. Do you think that MG or Kia would also be crying about this recession? Why hasn't the recession affected not just these 2 new products but 2 new companies altogether? Which by the way the majority Indian customer knows nothing about. I would dub this contrast situation as snob value of the established auto giants who are simply not aligned to what the Indian consumer wants. Their success proves that even if there is a recession the Indian consumer will put money on the table on relevant products. Basically he just won't allow the companies to take himself for a ride. The Indian consumer has matured which is hard to digest for the big firms. These brands are banking on their tried and tested strategies i.e. to provide minimum car for maximum profit which worked earlier because the Indian consumer in the 2000's was hungry, desperate rather malnutrition-ed for any semblance of a fancy thing and was willing to pay top dollar for it. In fact they need to re-invent, overhaul their Business strategy departments to maintain a healthy growth and also ground themselves to reality that now they just can't overcharge.

What say that the auto giants over a period of time have grown up to become the rich spoilt brat who wants that shiny new convertible on his 18th birthday at any and all cost!!

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by bmw_lover

And for a moment lets divert to the success of Hector and Seltos. Do you think that MG or Kia would also be crying about this recession? Why hasn't the recession affected not just these 2 new products but 2 new companies altogether? Which by the way the majority Indian customer knows nothing about. I would dub this contrast situation as snob value of the established auto giants who are simply not aligned to what the Indian consumer wants. Their success proves that even if there is a recession the Indian consumer will put money on the table on relevant products.

You make some great points. But, I will say this. These are early days for MG and Kia. Let us wait and see how they fare over the next 12 to 24 months. New products with their novelty factor always work in the beginning. But, only continued perception of value will work in the long run. A great example is the Marazzo. It created a nice splash about an year ago and pulled strong for a while. Mahindra even had the good sense to get a global NCAP rating for the car. But, look at how things have fared over the long haul.

Originally Posted by motorworks

... could not understand as to why the Marazzo is not doing so well. It seems to be well priced for what it offers and almost all reviews were of the opinion that it is a well engineered product all round. Is it the looks? ... In case of the XUV300, I think its the initial pricing and also the lack of boot space. Marazzo, well its a puzzle for me now.

This is just my opinion. But, I think the Marazzo is trending down because it is simply too expensive and not at all value for money. That safety rating is good. But, frankly, that one feather is not enough to justify the huge gap in pricing between the Marazzo and the others. The only way for the Marazzo to have won would have been to go head on with the Ertiga in terms of pricing and undercut it by at least 50k. Else, it is sayonara.

As it is, MPVs are family purchases where functionality and VFM quotients are huge factors. Mahindra needed to have recognized that and not priced a vehicle with a puny 1.5 liter engine at some 4 lacs above the competition citing some nonsensical premium factor, along with flawed reasoning that they are an offering a more VFM alternative to the Innova buyer.

Fact is that prospective buyers of the Innova with enough money in their pockets are simply not going to trade off their choice of car for another with a big drop in engine size and lots of other missing features, not to mention the absence of the Toyota brand. The Marazzo as an Innova alternative would only have worked if it had a comparable engine and an auto tranny. Conversely, Ertiga buyers are not going to fork our 4 more lacs for a Mahindra which is NOT a Maruti, in exchange for less features and functionality.

Here is a handy list.

• Marazzo has a last row that doesn't recline. The competition does.
• Marazzo has no petrol or AT options. The competition does.
• Marazzo has no push button start. The competition does.
• Marazzo has some worrying ergonomic issues in the driver's seat (that huge intrusive HB; the gearstalk that keeps hitting the passengers' arm rest; and a deep clutch travel are three issues that I have heard repeated by a few people). The competition largely does not have these issues.

The only big advantage for Marazzo is that 4 star safety rating. And we are seeing now that Indians will value safety only up to a point. After that it is all about utility and value.

I feel that the Marazzo is simply caught in no-man's land with no clear positioning to convince buyers about it's value. I think if Mahindra come back after April 2020 with a bigger BS 6 engine, an auto tranny, reclinable last row and a slightly larger boot, then they have a shot. And that too only if they slash prices by at least 1.5 lacs. It's a shame really; because it is otherwise a good vehicle.

Incidentally, I TDed the Marazzo and simply could not convince myself to move forward with a purchase decision for the above stated reasons. And by extension, I figured that if I could not see value in the car for its price, then in all likelihood neither could other prospective customers. In a sense, I think I saw this downward trend happening long before it did. I actually thought that the dip would start immediately after the new Ertiga made its debut. To the Marazzo's credit, it held on for a couple of months. But, after that, the inevitable happened.

P.S.

No offense meant to any Marazzo owners. This is purely my opinion based on the facts and numbers that are in front of us; and on my own experience as a person going through the process of shopping for a family car.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Sorry about another post in the same thread, but could not understand as to why the Marazzo is not doing so well. It seems to be well priced for what it offers and almost all reviews were of the opinion that it is a well engineered product all round. Is it the looks?

Yes it is the looks and the image. The general public scarcely gives attention to the technical merits of the vehicle. Just yesterday i was talking to a colleague in office who is in the market for a three row vehicle. When i suggested him Marrazo. He immediately rejected it because in his words it is not "desirable". Increasing number of Marrazo cabs is not doing it a favor either. Plus the lame marketing campaign being run by Mahindra at the moment. Just for comparison its sibling Scorpio with questionable safety and bouncy ride, priced even higher is doing much more numbers.

[srishiva]

Recently there was a whatsapp forward which was comparing a BMW made in germany and XUV500 made in India. The price of XUV is just 4 lakhs or so cheaper even after converting the Euros to rupees at existing exchange rates.

Considering the quality of components and most of all the cheap labor for components and total car (the labor was shown 32 times cheaper in India) cars should cost less if done completely in India. Even the MNC car companies that talk about 90% or 80% localization are not pricing them right.

[bmw_lover]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

New products with their novelty factor always work in the beginning. But, only continued perception of value will work in the long run.

You are absolutely right but my only aim was to give a sound reasoning as to why auto majors hue and cry can not be believed entirely or on face value before thoroughly examining the figures quoted by them. And don't you think it is the prerogative of the company to provide a product whose value perception continues beyond 24 months? After all it is them who will benefit out of such product.


Meanwhile to further bolster my viewpoint, a statement by secretary general of CAIT, Praveen Khandelwal in Hindu Business Line on 17.9.19

No slowdown in automobile sector: CAIT
PTI New Delhi

Traders’ body CAIT on Tuesday said there is no slowdown in the domestic automobile sector and the industry is making hue and cry only to get a package from the government.

The auto industry has been attributing the sales downturn to several factors such as high GST (Goods and Services Tax) rates, farm distress, stagnant wages and liquidity constraints.

“There is no slowdown in the domestic automobile sector. They are saying this to get a package from the government,” Confederation of All India Traders (CAIT) Secretary General Praveen Khandelwal told reporters here.

Citing an example of new vehicle launches, he said companies have received huge number of bookings, which do not reflect any slowdown in the sector.

[coolkurt]

I don't know about the established players, but I'm sure the new entrants MG and Kia will show positive number growth this month too.

MG should have around 3000 despatches as that's their plant capacity at the moment and Kia should hover around the 9-10k mark. All other auto manufacturers will continue to show declining sales.

Maruti's eyewash of Rs 5k discount shouldn't really be credited even if there is a sales jump post Oct.