[frewper]

Originally Posted by GTO

The Indian supply chain is vast and you get everything here - from "Rolex" level of quality to the really cheap stuff. End of the day, the manufacturer gets what he pays for. Some brands are just way too focused on driving costs down and will bargain with suppliers for 25 paise / piece.

Cannot agree more.
Another major reason why one can see lower levels of quality in localised car parts, if because of supplier and Procurement department 'friendship'. And I have seen this first hand, that too with one of the top five manufacturers in our country. Sending gifts during diwali is a nice gesture, though its always one sided. But when these gifts just turns out be the latest iPhone and other really expensive stuff, I really have wondered how other discussions might have worked out. Of course when a supplier is favoured because of these reasons, quality is bound to take a hit.

[SideView]

Absolutely no.

End of day car manufacturer has control if they aren’t satisfied it will not be part of car.

Like GTO mentioned we can get parts from wide spectrum from low quality to top notch in India. Is manufacturer willing to shell out the big bucks? Depends on their business strategy.

Expecting top quality at low price would be foolish.

[Flying Shadow]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

.

The biggest proof that localization doesn't have to mean lower quality is the fact that the same manufacturers have different standards for the cars they produce in India for India versus cars produced in India for the Rest of the world.

Exactly.
Car manufacturers themselves are the culprits behind most of the localized cheaper quality parts.
The suppliers provide what they are asked of, at the price and specs given by manufacturer.
In the price sensitive Indian market, for being competitive and running profitably, something has to be sacrificed. More often than not, it ends up being the quality of a component as the result of the budgeting.

Since, not all Indians are bothered by questionable quality when things are cheaper,this is deemed as the right approach for the market by the manufacturers.
For other more stringent global markets, they produce everything as required.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Maky

I think it's fairly simple.

It comes down to a manufacturers quality target for the vendor and then the QA followed up on said target(s) by the manufacturer.
If you are experiencing sub-par quality from an earlier model to a later higher localised model then it's either/or of the above points to blame.

This is what many people do not understand. The same alternator provided to manufacturer A may actually be far more reliable than the model supplied to manufacturer B.

Manufacturers have quality and cost targets. It is entirely possible to import junk, or get it from the local market. Junk is universally cheap and a very attractive option.

That said, I wish manufacturers gave an option to us to buy expensive quality version or cheap low quality version. Kind of like the same processor for 500$ or 300$ depending upon the bin which can hit 4GHz or the bin which will struggle beyond 3

[gururajrv]

I would say it really depends - but, certainly can make the difference out evidently. I own a Ninja 300 2019 edition and when I compared it with yesteryears ninja 300, engine cowl panels flex pretty much with thumb force vs the CBU panels are so tight and rock hard. Likewise, the tires I’m running on is MRF and it sucks big time which has a wobbly nature attached to it when I cross 60+ kmph Vs Metzellers or better soft compound tires on the previous models that had quite a wonderful grip.

Yes, I understand to keep the product competitive, ingredients going to it might have to be meddled with and it should pretty much be in the acceptable threshold and shouldn’t cause any safety issues.

Ninja 300 2018-19 ABS versions were recalled because of faulty front endurance brake calipers that potentially had chances of failing to brake that could’ve caused a lot of issues to the safety of the rider. Hopefully, manufacturers should pay more attention to the safety equipments to have highest standards on cars / bikes.

[sushantr5]

I will say yes, localisation in general will bring quality down. Even if same tooling and machinery used in production we will make sure quality is taken back stage over quantity. This boils down to practices and processes followed by certain vendor. I will go further and say this, quality is characterized by culture and social practices.

Let's take small example, a press machine operator, German and Japanese will make sure properly trained and experienced person is employed as an operator. Indian firm will try cheapest and easiest available person with less liability. Even the person seeking job of operation will not lie to get job in Other countries. But we are known to do all kinds of manipulation to land a job.

We don't know to say no. We accept every order even if we know we are stretched. This is true about every vendor in India. This hampers planning, scheduling, setting and execution of work order. Eventually quality becomes secondary. Minor deviations become acceptable. We try to justify this with obscure reasons.

Everybody in the chain behaves like this. So this comes from culture I guess. This lethargical approach is because of educational quality available in local. We see this behavior kirana shop to car service centers.

These are my observation based on working experience in various domains, from Automotive vendor to Enterprise software services and from India to Germany. I may be wrong but my observation is that we are not focused and committed to our work.

[Sebring]

If we take your own example of a press machine operator, does it require special talent to operate? Are there any calculations that Indian operators do 'jugaad' and get by? Any coding or software application? The 'tool setter' simply positions the workpiece and controls the machine. The Indian machine tool operator follows the same protocol as his German counterpart. Regarding, hiring the cheapest guy for the job - you think the Germans and Japanese hire the most expensive man for the job? Isn't 'costing' a part of their deal too? Cost of living has a bearing on how much salary one draws, and they have strong unions which get the best deal for their workforce. This is why units are set up in India, China, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand. Indians do use 'contacts' to seek a job, but that's human nature, and can be done anywhere. But what are the chances he will get/keep the job merely on contacts? Ponder over this. Indians are among the most hard working in the world, we have a great 'culture' that you dismiss so easily - and the westerner is always in awe as how the Indian achieves so much for much, much less salary and benefits. Lethargy is often shown the door, since there are thousands of contenders for the same job. If 'X' number of units are to be produced there will be no deviation. I don't know what Companies you have worked for, but this is 'ground-reality'. Would appreciate if you do not bring racism into discussions.

Originally Posted by sushantr5

Let's take small example, a press machine operator, German and Japanese will make sure properly trained and experienced person is employed as an operator. Indian firm will try cheapest and easiest available person with less liability. Even the person seeking job of operation will not lie to get job in Other countries. But we are known to do all kinds of manipulation to land a job. Everybody in the chain behaves like this. So this comes from culture I guess. This lethargical approach is because of educational quality available in local. We see this behavior kirana shop to car service centers.

[Torqueceptor]

I for one certainly believe that Localisation leads to cheaper Quality. I own a Skoda Laura AT 2011 model and believe it or not, got the brake pads changed at an odo reading of 76k. The car is absolutely self driven and sparingly used. Evn then, i was shocked. In fact I checked my car file as I definitely thought that this can't be the case and surely I would have got them replaced earlier. Compare this to my Vento TSI 2016 which has already got its brake pads changed at 32K.
So much for localisation.

[coolkurt]

Originally Posted by Torqueceptor

Compare this to my Vento TSI 2016 which has already got its brake pads changed at 32K.
So much for localisation.

Well brake pads are wear and tear items so even if the driving style hasn't changed, the brand and the type of pads, the weight of the car, the exact driving conditions, stress due to other failing components etc can lead to a different outcome.

For eg : I changed the clutch set on my Civic at around 90k kms. Original Daikin Exedy. This lasted all of 1,10,000 Kms. I got the clutch changed again at close to 2,00,000 Kms. After the car ran 3k kms, the bearing went kaput. My FNG guy told me you must be riding the clutch. But he was surprised as he knows I'm not one of those drivers. The clutch plates on all my cars last really long. Anyway, the bearing had damaged the plate so we had to replace everything.

Another 4k kms down the line, burning smell and the clutch bearing is burnt out again. We checked the pedals, changed the fluids , I went to Ghai spares to complain about their lot. Waited for a new lot to arrive. Mind you, it was an original Honda bearing. Got it replaced.

5k kms down the line, its looking good and then I start getting the burning smell again. Got it opened up, and the bearing was again on its way out. My FNG guy and I sat around with the entire mechanism, inspecting everything else.

Finally I decided to check the clutch master cylinder. The FNG guy was insisting that a CMC failure means the pedal will just fall flat. But owing to the experience on my Civic, the last and only time the CMC failed, at around 75k kms, there was just a lot of play in the pedal but it never entirely failed and fell flat.

We checked the CMC and we found the culprit. At times, the piston was getting stuck during release. This would have kept the bearing in place even after I've retracted my foot from the clutch pedal thereby leading to premature bearing damage.

It felt good that my reputation was redeemed and we finally found the answer, after three changes of the bearing.

Got the master and the slave cylinder changed and things are back to normal. Sometimes other components lead to stress on an already failing component leading to premature damage, which may or may not be due to the quality of the part in question.

[CARDEEP]

I have voted "No" as I don't think localisation results in poorer quality, rather it's the business stakeholders greed & ignorance/ stupidity of buyers that lets the former sell sub-standard products despite exporting better products from same factory.

[King_pin09]

Broadly, there could be no definitive answer to this question.

Most manufacturers resort to a philosophy called 'Sampling' to determine consistency in batches during product manufacture. Most manufacturing units in Europe, et-al are completely robotized and the chances of inconsistency setting in across the samples is highly rare.

In the Indian context, many manufacturers rely on human intervention at various levels and the factor of human contributions by way of individual competency, human errors, et-al creeps in. It is for this very reason as why two products with same specifications albeit made in different batches or different units or by different vendors tend to differ.

Keeping away from the social, economical and political perspectives, I believe that the localization in Indian environment definitely tends to alter the quality across batches and /or vendors.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by coolkurt

Another 4k kms down the line, burning smell and the clutch bearing is burnt out again. We checked the pedals, changed the fluids , I went to Ghai spares to complain about their lot. Waited for a new lot to arrive. Mind you, it was an original Honda bearing. Got it replaced.

We checked the CMC and we found the culprit. At times, the piston was getting stuck during release. This would have kept the bearing in place even after I've retracted my foot from the clutch pedal thereby leading to premature bearing damage.

Couldn't you notice the drop in mileage during these 3 clutch changes? Should have alerted you on every tankful that something seriously wrong.

[coolkurt]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Couldn't you notice the drop in mileage during these 3 clutch changes? Should have alerted you on every tankful that something seriously wrong.

That's the thing. There was no alarming drop in mileage and almost half of the 10k kms that I had this issue, I was doing highway runs, Delhi to Agra and back owing to work. So the mileage drop, even if substantial, didn't pinch as much as it was surely higher than the regular city drives.

[devsoftech]

Just happened to spend time with a 2019 GLC 300 in California. It was made in India. Quality was at par with the 2020 GLE 350 that I own. What hurts is export quality is always built to maximize profit at the cost of polluting the manufacturing country so why domestic market should theoretically get inferior quality if manufacturing costs are similar. Off topic but I did see that the VIN numbers for exporter Mercedes is German even though the door sticker says made in India, window sticker says final assembly plant is India.

[shankar.balan]

This is a good topic and thread.
Many of us who grew up in the 1980's are very familiar with the term 'Export Quality'.
The clear and stated detail here was that Export Quality was always 'Superior' since it was meant to cater to external markets.
And the unsaid implication was that we 'locals' were only deserving of 'local' quality at a cheaper price.

Now as an echo to some of the comments on this thread - I clearly remember there being a marked difference in quality between the early imported Maruti 800DX cars and the later ones which were fully made in India in terms of plastics and even leather upholstery!

Coming back to this day and age 35 years later, this difference very clearly does still exist.

In our brand new Toyota Glanza if one touches and feels the centre console especially around the plasticky bits and the slot in which the hand brake rests, one can feel and see the crude plastic finish.

My recently sold CKD Yeti's interiors were of such a markedly higher quality finish fit and finesse than any Skoda Rapid which was made in India.

Look at the Royal Enfield Himalayan and see the horrible weld spots all over it. I mean, thats just not ok.

I dont know why, but as Indians in general our manufacturers and other service providers, do have a tendency to fob off our our own brethren with sub standard quality and force the buyers to accept a compromise.

We just seem to have a tendency to take too many shortcuts and make compromises and jugaad efforts wherever possible. We lack that 'essential rigour'.