[Mat095]

It looks really good. However, I doubt that Hyundai would bring in the V6 here in India, if they do then the price is gonna be much higher then 45 Lakhs, I’m guessing north of 50 Lakhs (its a 291 bhp 3.8-litre V6) and that would be German SUVs territory. We could get the 2.2-litre diesel and that should be close to 40-45 lakhs ballpark, they’ll price it a little higher than Carnival. If this does become a success here then we can hope for the Genesis too!

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by arzala

I am a Product Guy, according to my research every brand has it's Price perception among its customers, that should not be crossed by them by heavy margin.

...
As far as brand and price perception is concerned, you are your first competitor.

Good post, makes sense.
In that sense I also agree with another poster who says that Kia has a cleaner slate than Hyundai for pricing.

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by low_rider

Bang on. Asian brands are not associated with "having arrived in life" by Indian buyers. Barring a few enthusiasts, an average Indian buyer would only consider the European brands in the luxury segment. ...
Palisade should be priced comparable to the Fortuner and Endeavour and Hyundai should not try to enter or even approach X3 territory.

Not sure I agree. Yes, Merc, BMW, Audi are luxury brands globally. But a Landcruiser would also be considered premium. It is not the origin but the brand positioning and the associated price band as discussed by Arjab that matters.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by arzala

I am a Product Guy, according to my research every brand has it's Price perception among its customers, that should not be crossed by them by heavy margin.

Sorry bud, but I completely disagree. The market is now "product driven", and not so much by price limitations of brands. The Mahindra XUV500 is one of the biggest blockbuster products of the last 10 years to break that "price barrier" perception. Who would have thought of Mahindra's success with a 15 - 20 lakh rupee XUV500? Or Ford selling 500 pieces a month of a 30 - 40 lakh rupee Endeavour? Or a completely unknown brand (Kia) doing 10,000 - 15,000 copies a month of an unknown product (Seltos)? Or the Chinese moving 3000 pieces / month of an unconventionally designed crossover that costs 20 lakhs?

Give a product with an unbeatable proposition in any price band and customers will come (irrespective of brand).

[arzala]

Originally Posted by GTO

Sorry bud, but I completely disagree. The market is now "product driven", and not so much by price limitations of brands.

I never said that only Price is factor to be hit or miss. Of-course product has to be "Product-Market" fit in terms of quality, demand, price etc.

Originally Posted by GTO

The Mahindra XUV500 is one of the biggest blockbuster products of the last 10 years to break that "price barrier" perception. Who would have thought of Mahindra's success with a 15 - 20 lakh rupee XUV500? Or Ford selling 500 pieces a month of a 30 - 40 lakh rupee Endeavour?

As far as I know Mahindra had always that 12-20 Lakh slot vacant to take advantage of because Scorpio was already there with lot of success around 10-12 Lakh segment. They also took right step by XUV5OO. Similarly they also rightly launched Alturas after XUV5OO, BUT there was big 8 years gap between XUV5OO and Alturas so Price perception of Mahindra which reached around 20 Lakh (because of XUV5OO) slowly waned around 10-12 Lakh again by constantly low volumes of XUV5OO after 2015. Alturas was 3 years late by that time. Here again Alturas is very good product.

Originally Posted by GTO

Or Ford selling 500 pieces a month of a 30 - 40 lakh rupee Endeavour?

This car was already there between 2009-2014 in price range of 18-25 Lakh, so better version of same car got success. So here again price perception was not jumped by huge margin.

Originally Posted by GTO

Or a completely unknown brand (Kia) doing 10,000 - 15,000 copies a month of an unknown product (Seltos)? Or the Chinese moving 3000 pieces / month of an unconventionally designed crossover that costs 20 lakhs?

When a Brand enters first time in any country, they have to do lot of user research to find out about "older brand memories (like fiat while re-entering), bad exp. anywhere in the world, emotional resistance about any brand (chinese brands are cheap), most demand in which market segment (sub 4m mini-suv is in most demand)" etc. Both Kia and MG did good homework before launching their products without failing into any area (right product, right price, right segment, right ASS, right marketing). They both got success and they have built their price perception: Kia 10-15 Lakh, MG 12-18 Lakh. It would be interesting to see what will be their next moves.

Originally Posted by GTO

Give a product with an unbeatable proposition in any price band and customers will come (irrespective of brand).

This can be applicable for new entrant but for existing brands this hypothesis does not work; for example when Duster was super-hit in price band of 8-12 Lakh, Renault rightly brought Koleos as proper full size SUV but they kept its price band at 24-28 Lakh instead of 15-20 that's why it flopped.

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by GTO

Give a product with an unbeatable proposition in any price band and customers will come (irrespective of brand).

But isn't "brand" a part of the proposition? Chinese or not, MG Rover had a clean slate in positioning - as did KIA.
(Many people did not know it was Chinese BTW - Brosnan and all)

Arjab's views resonated with me because I was searching for a sandwich maker in the morning. A Philips model at Rs. 2200 was in consideration, then we saw an Inalsa for Rs. 1800 with good features, but felt uncomfortable buying such a product from a "cheap" our brand.

[Nitrous Power]

Would you believe that top of the line Hyundai Palisade Limited version had 3 months of waiting in USA before COIVD struck? Also, dealers were quoting $500 above MSRP of $49k for top shelf - (cars going above MSRP rarely happens in USA. Typically - Out the door price is lesser than MSRP).

However, the cheaper versions that starts roughly at $35k are readily available.

It is a very competent product. It’s bigger than Toyota Highlander and Honda Pilot as well. It won’t be competing against Fortuner at all. With CBU, I see pricing going to be in 50lac range.

[SaiSW]

Won't this be 50+ lacs in any case? I don't think this will sell. People do care a bit about the brand once you go higher up the ladder. I don't think Hyundai brand image is nearly strong enough to cause sleepless nights for Benz in India, or the other two German brands as well.

Meanwhile something that can compete with the fortuner and endeavour, priced <40 lacs will find buyers. Hyundai brand image is not strong enough to dethrone Benz, but it is enough to put up a fight in the fortuner segment.

Originally Posted by GTO

Give a product with an unbeatable proposition in any price band and customers will come (irrespective of brand).

Taking only Palisade's case into consideration, I have to disagree. I'm sorry, yes the market is product driven but only to a a limit. A 50-60 lac Hyundai ( not Genesis or something else, but a hyundai ) is not going to outsell any of the big three in their respective segments, atleast not nearly, the three pointed star.

And Kia and MG did not market their cars as "actually we're a hyundai sister brand" and "actually Chinese car underneath" respectively.

[VJ05]

Hyundai has to undercut Fortuner/Endeavour and they would have a winner in hand. If it's priced above these two giants then I don't see any chance for the Korean. >40 L people will tend to lean towards German barge and Hyundai will stand no chance, competent or incompetent product.

[praveen_n]

Originally Posted by VJ05

Hyundai has to undercut Fortuner/Endeavour and they would have a winner in hand. If it's priced above these two giants then I don't see any chance for the Korean. >40 L people will tend to lean towards German barge and Hyundai will stand no chance, competent or incompetent product.

It may not be possible for Hyundai to undercut Fortuner/Endeavour .
This is a product that is competing aganist ford Explorer / VW Toureg globally and the segment is completely different.

[VJ05]

Originally Posted by praveen_n

It may not be possible for Hyundai to undercut Fortuner/Endeavour .
This is a product that is competing aganist ford Explorer / VW Toureg globally and the segment is completely different.

Yeah, I know that Palisade caters to a segment above Fortuner/Endeavour however in India that segment is dominated by the German trios / JLR hence mainstream players will have very little chance. Best chance for Hyundai would be to test the waters by bringing it CKD and competing against Fortuner/Endeavour. If it succeeds then they can produce it in India which will help them in lowering the cost.

[motorworks]

Technically, the Hyundai Palisade and the Kia Telluride are nearly the same and compete in the same price bracket. I would think that getting the Kia Telluride as a premium offering may even make some sense. Since Kia has already launched the Carnival at a premium to the Innova, they might be able to pitch the Telluride at about 50 lakhs. And they might just be able to sell a few hundred units. However, if Hyundai does the same with the Palisade, I just dont think they will be able to pull it off. They dont have a 50 lakh customer walking in to their showroom since the Santa Fe is almost non existent and none of the Hyundai dealers show interest in selling the Tucson and nor the Elantra, in fact forget 50 lakhs, even a potential 25-30 lakh customer is not walking in, unless its for a 2nd or 3rd car for their homes.

And this is why Hyundai should push for a separate dealership for all cars above the Creta, may be just 2-3 in each metro to start with. Else they will have to make up their mind that Kia is better off addressing this customer base, even if not in a big way.

[arzala]

I found that Kia made mistake by launching Carnival instead of Sorento kind of (aka 2.X 5/7 seater full size SUV 4x2 or 4x4). Here they are jumping their Brand price perception too fast and that can backfire like in case of Renault example I gave above. What will happen now is people will compare Carnival with Innova and find it very expensive 6/7 seater Van/MPV. So instead of general purpose van/mpv, carnival will remain niche product only.

[praveen_n]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Nothing lasts longer than a Toyota, especially in larger vehicles(Ford Pickups being an exception). The highlander will easily do 400k-500k miles trouble free miles. Try that in a Honda Pilot/Hyundai Palisade/Kia Telluride.

Is it not customers perception now a days than reality?
I mean hyundai offering a million miles warrenty speaks about the confident that they have on their product.
I have seen multuple hyundai sedans having crossed 200000 miles without any major issues.
Take a look at taxis in europe.There are a lot of Mercedes benz sedans and even skodas (in Czech Republic) that has covered 200 to 300000 miles.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by praveen_n

Is it not customers perception now a days than reality?

True to a certain extent. Most manufacturers have narrowed the gap in reliability.

I mean hyundai offering a million miles warranty speaks about the confident that they have on their product.

I think this million miles warranty is hogwash. It doesn't apply for subsequent owners and has restriction on where you can get it repaired.

I have seen multuple hyundai sedans having crossed 200000 miles without any major issues....

Most well maintained cars have great reliability. And if majority of the running is on highway, any decently built car can last 500-600k miles. Unlike Toyotas and Hondas, some cars are difficult to fix, causing their resale value to decline. Also, components like AC compressors, fuel injectors etc are replaced less often in Toyota/Honda.

I guess German machines need competent mechanics to run for long time. Modern German cars have much more electronics and can be nightmare to repair.