[pandabear]

Personally I am not very sure what they are trying to achieve here by introducing just a new colour. I would rather be interested in a 4 x 4 option or a better glitch free touch screen system with connected car options (to compete with the newer kids on the block) or an addition of an electronic parking brake. Even a general improvement in build quality would also be welcome considering that there are very simple to fix complaints like the sun glasses holder coming off loose.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

The % gain with an AWD will be minuscule & not worth the investment - as per Tata's assessment.

If we look at the sales numbers of XUV5oo AWD, Compass AWD/4x4, Hexa AWD - I think Tata's assessment appears to be true!

Absolutely right!

Originally Posted by steadfast

So, a logical business decision not to launch AWD but if someone in the management plans to widen Tata's losses further will be happy to launch AWD version.

Tata is just about turning the corner on sales, so I hope they don’t give in to sentimentality.

Originally Posted by 5kmiles

I wish Tata offered but it makes zero commercial sense. They would know from Safari sales all these years.

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

...even if they give a defender at 25 lakhs, most will make a beeline towards a large hatchback like seltos.

And the sales charts validate your point every month.

Originally Posted by speedguy

Well said. The wish list from enthusiast community is endless, but the community itself is so small that profit margins for manufacturer are wafer thin.

Originally Posted by Avinash_R

Market is small for a 4*4 but Tata should have done it just for the sake of it.

Even the percentage sales of AWD models vs 2WD is minuscule, and the sales of AWD only models were terrible, such as the Chevrolet (Subaru) Forester and Skoda Yeti.

The price difference between the two and all wheel drive variants of a cheaper car would be huge, and no one but the super rich can afford to take a 20L vehicle off-roading.

Driving through a bit of slush isn’t off-roading, and this is the 98%+ use-case that the Harrier or any other two wheel drive vehicle with sufficient ground clearance can accomplish.

I read that Europeans (the northerners particularly) need AWD because of road icing. Even they don’t need 4x4 because even there it remains a niche product segment.

The Harrier Camo edition is a new colour, with tasteful stickering and what looks like a decent set of quality accessories. This gets a thumbs up from me.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by VeluM

Driving through a bit of slush isn’t off-roading, and this is the 98%+ use-case that the Harrier or any other two wheel drive vehicle with sufficient ground clearance can accomplish.

I read that Europeans (the northerners particularly) need AWD because of road icing. Even they don’t need 4x4 because even there it remains a niche product segment.

Thank you!! I have been crying hoarse about the very point. 99% of Indian roads don't need 4*4. You need to actually search for terrain to use 4*4. Even then, a well driven 4*2 will easily overcome most obstacles. There is a classic video in youtube which highlights this very fact. A 4*4 awd compass fails to climb a slushy slope where in a 4*2 safari easily manages to do the climb.

[pandabear]

Originally Posted by 5kmiles

I wish Tata offered but it makes zero commercial sense. They would know from Safari sales all these years. Skoda didn't get their AWD Karoq, even at the eye watering ludicrous price point (great car though). There is no market for it, simple.

I feel it makes more commercial sense in offering multiple options. Learnings should be made from the seltos where they have so many multiple options such that everyone can get the same car with exactly what they want.

I genuinely feel that is a disconnect inTata between what they think is right and what the market things is right, an example is the the sunroof. Any options that may need to be introduced is anyway going to be paid by the consumer as a premium

[steadfast]

Originally Posted by pandabear

I feel it makes more commercial sense in offering multiple options. Learnings should be made from the seltos where they have so many multiple options such that everyone can get the same car with exactly what they want.

I genuinely feel that is a disconnect inTata between what they think is right and what the market things is right, an example is the the sunroof. Any options that may need to be introduced is anyway going to be paid by the consumer as a premium

I am curious why do you feel there is a disconnect?

Sunroof was always planned but as a delayed feature after the so called Beta Version for 1st year however from day 1, Tata is very clear that there is no market for AWD and 4*4. Tata's own market research and several other researches online state that 4*4 is a niche which makes no commercial sense.

But as I said earlier, if someone in Tata leadership plans to widen Tata's losses will definitely like to go ahead with launching an AWD or 4*4.

[discoverwild]

20,000 bookings for the Thar say otherwise. There's a market if you look for it. A modern Sumo with a 4x4, low range TC was doable and was already much more comfortable and drove better than the Thar. They quietly shelved the Sumo for the sake of modernity. Wouldn't that have made an affordable, hardcore yet comfortable off-roader?

Yes, I do agree that the 4x4 market is low. The Thar is selling because it's a replica of the Wrangler and an iconic figure. Well, isn't the Land Rover an iconic mark too? Probably a much bigger marque than the Wrangler itself.

Right from the word go, the Harrier was never meant to be a 4x4. That's why they changed the layout of the engine and made it FWD. If they had thought that they would have a 4x4 in future, they would have made it a RWD in all probability and the vehicle could have probably been launched sooner. And also the reason why they couldn't get an AT sooner or use the Punch PowerGlide from the Hexa AT.

I don't say Tata did the wrong thing. They did what they felt was right and enough. They didn't want to try any further which was a sort of letdown.

I really do hope they come back with the Hexa in 4x4 guise.

[Napalm]

As I remember, the launch-time media drives of Harrier in 2019 were conducted near a desert and many of the review-videos had the 2019 Harrier driving on the desert Sand-Dunes with ease. So I understand what Pratap Bose meant when he said that Harrier can go to almost all places. Harrier has ESP & terrain-modes like rough-road, wet mode etc.

The TATA marketing leadership had mentioned multiple times during the Harrier launch that 4WD will not be coming to Harrier anytime soon, because according to their estimates ~70-80% of this SUV segment is manual and just 2% is 4WD.They were wrong about the manual/Auto % (or they were just buying time to perfect & launch the Auto gearbox) and they did launch the Auto in 2020-BS6 version. But , they were absolutely correct about the share of 4WD in this segment to be <5%.

After all this, people here just start expecting AWD when TATA mentions jungle in their teaser and get disappointed later. Jungle does not have to mean only off-roading like a Thar for everyone, it could also be a reference to greenery in Jungle for the Green color that CAMO edition comes in. Not a bad campaign for a SUV that comes with one of the largest panoramic sunroofs. Just drive to a mountain jungle area like Chamundi hills near Mysore and the importance of Sunroof in watching greenery will be clear. Nothing wrong in expecting though. I too want Harrier to have a 4WD, but just don't start bashing TATA for something they never promised in the first place. Same thing happened when TATA released a teaser for a mid variant Nexon with Sunroof.

For those questioning the motives of TATA for launching a CAMO edition, the popularity of same Foliage-Green color in Nexon, the success of the Dark-Edition and its popularity even in TeamBHP forums should be enough justifications. The amount of funding, engineering & design efforts needed for AWD is way too high compared to a #Dark or #CAMO edition.

[Chetan_Rao]

Smashing color!

As to missing 4x4 hardware, practically nobody in India takes anything except purpose-built stuff off-road, so tacking on weight for 'Look Ma, off-road gear!' that'll barely justify its presence over the car's shelf life is pointless.

It's actually cleverly-named too. Camo Edition: 'Made you think I'd be a 4x4, eh? Gotcha!'

[pandabear]

Originally Posted by steadfast

I am curious why do you feel there is a disconnect?

I said that because if my memory serves me right, I remember seeing a Tata representative on television in an interview where he told that the sunroof would not have many takers to justify including it as a feature on the harrier.

Personally I would not buy a car with a sunroof again as I have seen the seals get worn out and there is always a risk of rust and rain leakages through and around the edges in the long run. But as I said many think differently.

[steadfast]

Originally Posted by pandabear

I said that because if my memory serves me right, I remember seeing Mr Pratap Bose on television in an interview where he told that the sunroof would not have many takers to justify including it as a feature on the harrier.

Personally I would not buy a car with a sunroof again as I have seen the seals get worn out and there is always a risk of rust and rain leakages through and around the edges in the long run. But as I said many think differently.

If Pratap Bose said that about sunroof, then all makes sense now.
A severely flawed research about sunroof.

But for AWD or 4*4, their research might prove right. A miniscule market and a price premium for hardware might not fetch numbers.

However, Tata could surprise us sometime by launching Harrier Safari edition in future as limited edition of say 500 units only and have a premium pricing for it. But do not expect any such surprise in near future atleast till 2022.

[pandabear]

I just edited my post as I was trying to search YouTube for a reference but could not find anything. It's not correct on my part to say something without a reference hence I edited our the name . But man you are fast...

[WhiteKnight]

As many mentioned, the market for 4x4 is limited. The point was not give the market what we know- the point was about how you gain mindshare in the market. This is where Tata has been faltering off late. They seem to remain a design driven company that churns out products without understanding what to do with them in the market.

Now, you look at harrier and try to understand who is a harrier buyer?

• A person looking for full size SUV at a lower price? Say, person interested in Fortuner?
• someone who wants premium SUV, not so big? say, who doesn't want to buy Jeep compass?
• A seltos/creta competitor?
• Compete against D-segment, say Octavia?
• Or, is it some new attribute that people get hooked?

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Even I wish the Harrier has an AWD. When it comes to buying one - I think I'll buy a cheaper THAR instead! Most of those who are annoyed by lack of AWD (me included) - are never going to actually buy an AWD Harrier if made available.

We're speaking the same. I agree with the statistics, but the company need to draw insights too based on the market forces in play. I am pretty sure their market research told them that very few use sunroof. It may be a fact, but you saw what happened!! It left them with one less box ticked.

My only point was about, if 4x4 is offered, how that offering rubs into the brand and overall sales in a positive way, and also strengthen Tata and a premier SUV maker. Also, AWD is not that super expensive on a an already over-priced car.

I think harrier is selling 2000+ units primarily because XUV is too old.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

It's actually cleverly-named too. Camo Edition: 'Made you think I'd be a 4x4, eh? Gotcha!'

God save the guy who buys harrier, by listening to the Tata executive, who mentioned it is unstoppable.

[ashutoshb]

The promo is out

http://youtu.be/PSNJtuV_yn0

[rags.singh]

MG Hector, Kia Seltos, Hyundai Creta - neither of these compact/mid sized SUVs offer 4x4 but look at their sales numbers. Definitely the lack of 4x4 is not having any impact on their sales. So not sure why such unreasonable expectations from TML.

The only car in the segment with proper 4x4 hardware is the Compass (not counting XUV as its an old model or Tucson as its atleast 5-6 lacs pricier) and look at the wonder its doing to the sales figures of the Compass.

[Bhalla]

I love Harrier and it’s my favourite car under 30 Lakh price range. But I think Tata need to bring AWD version of Harrier now. I know only 1 or 2% buyers will opt for AWD version but it will make Harrier a complete package for enthusiasts too.