[ShankarG]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

There is nothing like "end of life" for motor vehicles. It is a brand new phrase coined by the vested interests with an evil eye to increase new motor vehicle, commercial sales...

Couldn't agree more. It is an artificial stimulant without any real development or increment to the GDP. Government, CSE, NGT, our babus and many more don't look at addressing the root cause but are focused on reacting to short term effects. There is still a void on many things like:

- We all would have seen now how many cycle rickshaws / pulleys have been fitted with bike / scooter engine and there is no checking on that.
- Fuel adulteration - there is no check on that.
- What about the 100's of cess on vehicles ? How is it being ploughed back in someway to the automobile industry development or curbing pollution etc.
- Why demonize diesel cars after 10 years and still collect 15 years of road tax.

The entire argument lacks a long term vision focused purely on sustaining the sales for few manufacturers (I don't see many continuing by 2025) at the cost of poor middle class.

[frewper]

The thing that I noticed that there has been no provisions made for CNG cars and electric cars yet. When these are clearly are the ones that are least polluting on the road.

Lets take an example. A lot of people use CNG cars so that its chep to run. But another fact about CNG powered vehicles is that they are less polluting to the environment.

Now as per the data, CNG is atleast 80-90% less polluting to the environment than the equivalent petrol. Which means people are using a car which is less polluting and doing the right thing by running on CNG. To replace this car with a new one is more damaging to the environment than keeping it running for the next 10 years.

Now even then, all cars have a defiend lifetime of 15 years and will have to pay additional tax every three years just so that it can be owned by the user. When its clear that the environmental impact of replacing the car.

Our govt sadly ignores this fact and comes up with new laws stating environmental reason. But clearly the agenda is something else.

[viXit]

does anyone know where this picture is from? that city seems familiar, was it on the forum?

[A.M.]

Originally Posted by GTO

. Just observe where all the old Altos go.

This is very true.
Most of them make their way to the North - East, where most of the times even the Registration Transfer is not done.

Some car owners just pop out the old number plates, reverse it, write / print a made-up number on the blank white side and continue to use the car.
Have seen it happen first hand in Nagaland.
Most of these cars are altos / 800s, especially from Delhi and NCR region.
Old diesels of the NCR are also pretty popular.

[kamilharis]

Vehicles don't die actually, unless you discard and kill them! Dot.

Instead of thinking about how to scrap the running cars to please the lobby, initiate some better fitness certificate process. Let the tax be for 15 years, agree. But keep the fitness certificate valid for 3-5 years for new vehicles, and then onwards let the fitness test be done for each and every year. But for this to be effective the process should be fool proof and bribe proof. Obviously these two things are impossible in our beloved country.

Here in Saudi ( in some other countries too ) any new vehicle's fitness will expire after 3 years, after which you have to get your car inspected and get the certificate extended for another one year, and then on you have to repeat this every year. They check everything from the electricals to engine and suspension , including the tires and brakes condition! This is termed as FAHAS here.

Driving a vehicle in Saudi Arabia requires a FAHAS or Motor Vehicles Periodic Inspection (MVPI) certificate. FAHAS is valid for one year and needed to renew every year. To renew Vehicle Registration, FAHAS is Mandatory. FAHAS is also mandatory to sell the vehicle or change ownership of the vehicle.

They will check and certify as per the below list, this is pretty much like a good yearly service where all points are inspected!



(Sorry for the poor image quality)

[hkborah]

The only part of a car that cause pollution is the engine. Why can't you just launch an engine replacement programme.

A 15 year old Honda may be less polluting that a 5 year old Ssangyong (or whatever). Why do you measure pollution levels anyways and expect people to keep their PUC updated.

Only if a car is regularly failing PUC tests repeatedly should you disallow that. Case in point being IDI engines. What happened? Replace a safari with Safari Dicor. A bolero GLX with Bolero m2Di. How did it help. Just change the engine.

Environmental costs? What is the total damage to the environment in producing a new car. Start from mining, to petroleum products for plastic, to energy for forging, to keeping thr factory running.... The additional cost of fuel for running an older car, the incremental pollution is nothing compared to the pollution you create in creating a brand new car.

Besides, if I want to drive a jalopy, I want no one to stop me. If my car is serviceable why should someone force me to change it?

[NaXal]

How can mining for raw material, processing, transport, production of metal or such then individual smaller suppliers making components & finally plant making a brand new car is environment friendly over a perfectly fine 15 year old BS2 or BS3 vehicle?

Which action will produce more polution?

Asking a personal owner of a family usage car running 8/10k kms a year to scrap & buy that new car? Or allowing him to run the older one as long as it's fit to run?

Making a new car is extremely polluted job. Beside modern cars are well built, proper periodic maintenance can make them last for 5/6L kms. But no, here our decision makers may ask a perfectly fine 60/70k kms old car to be scrapped because it's now 10 years old?

How on earth the brightest mind of our country in bureaucracy keeps on making one stupid decision over another

For example,

Why can't we have a strict MOT process like UK to check fitness of running vehicles?

[IP_Man]

Originally Posted by turbo

By 2025, India will have over 2 crore old vehicles nearing the end of their lives. These, along with other unfit vehicles, will cause huge pollution and environmental damage says a report by the Centre for Science and Environment (CSE).

I have different take on this. It is fuel quality in India, responsible for more pollution than well maintained old vehicles on road.

Fifteen years back I was in Saudi, Dammam City. Visual air quality was excellent, no smoke in the air, despite of large number of outdated cars. This attributes to excellent fuel quality available in Saudi.

If Indian government really wants to curb pollution then strict action must be taken against those petrol pumps that sell adulterated fuel. Strict laws are already there but there should be (political) will to implement them.

[pawank]

Cars as old as 15 years are passing the PUC test with flying colours. PUC test is hell lot of stricter now, earlier the PUC used to be given manually, now it is all online. The process can't be manipulated easily. Then why should we scrap our vehicle which is operating under legally permissable limits?

[landcruiser123]

Very easy for people sitting on a pedestal to pass statements like “End of life” for vehicles. Japan is the only civilized country which forces people to change cars by heavy taxes. There are a few advantages to the Japanese model:
1. The well made JDM cars are sold in Africa where people get many more years of life
2. Japan has some of the greatest rail network that people don’t need to own a car

Replacing existing vehicles with newer ones might marginally reduce air pollution, but the manufacturing and supply chain will have large carbon footprints.

[Gansan]

I am very sure my 2000 model Splendor and 2009 model Alto still meet or exceed the emission standards they were designed for. I maintain them perfectly. And I pay attention to what fuel and oil I put in them. I can show much later models that come nowhere near the standards of my vehicles, because of improper maintenance. So why should mine go off the road? They should check and enforce emission norm strictly and regularly instead.

Let them implement it countrywide and watch the fun. First the lorry transport industry will go on the war path and the government will face a goods transport strike. Then the taxi and auto unions will join them. Most of the government transport corporations themselves have old buses which will have to be replaced.

These are all behind the scene work of the Auto manufacturers lobby. The sooner the world switches to alternate power systems and IC engine auto makers go out of business, the better it will be.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Gansan

I am very sure my 2000 model Splendor and 2009 model Alto still meet or exceed the emission standards they were designed for. I maintain them perfectly. And I pay attention to what fuel and oil I put in them. I can show much later models that come nowhere near the standards of my vehicles, because of improper maintenance. So why should mine go off the road? They should check and enforce emission norm strictly and regularly instead.

Let them implement it countrywide and watch the fun. First the lorry transport industry will go on the war path and the government will face a goods transport strike. Then the taxi and auto unions will join them. Most of the government transport corporations themselves have old buses which will have to be replaced.

These are all behind the scene work of the Auto manufacturers lobby. The sooner the world switches to alternate power systems and IC engine auto makers go out of business, the better it will be.

You will have the most knowledge and awareness about pollution and what causes it, but the least power. Guess who's missing in the above list of protesters?
Here's what will happen. Transporters will be given margins. Taxi and auto guys will be given margins. Heck, even two wheelers may end up with grace allowances. The private car buyer will get a gift from Kapil Sharma.
The central government has filed against this ruling, but guess how many years it's been since anything has come of it? It's all in the stars.

[buntee90]

I have always wondered how much emissions difference is there in a new and 10y old Multijet/Crdi engine.
I will most probably keep a petrol car only for 7-8 years but I still hate that 10 year rule for diesels in NCR which is keeping cars like Freestyle TDci out of the picture.

[TAHR]

The national scrappage policy is just another patented scam involving three lobbies. Prominent friends of the current regime in the mining and petrochemical industries, the car manufacturers who are right now clutching at straws to stay afloat and the state governments eyeing the ever-increasing revenue from taxes on new vehicles.

I don't see why, in the case of personal vehicles, if a person has been scrupulously maintaining them, he should just scrap them one fine day, based on a piece of paper. Especially when there's no guarantee that other vehicles in the valid bracket are non-polluting.

In the case of commercial vehicles, each segment has its own powerful lobby and the plan will invariably be check-mated. Ultimately, it will only be the individual, private owners who would be forced to tow the line unnecessarily.

The best bet is to have credible, individual testing without a pre-determined outcome. So, even a 25-year old vehicle that is considered road-worthy on all parameters, should be allowed to run without being condemned to the scrap graveyard.

The problem in this country of course, is that whenever discretionary evaluation is brought into the equation, it's only the quantum of bribes that will go up. To counter that, you throw a blanket ban that not only lets you curry favour with the lobbies but also makes your life easier, others be damned.

[ajmat]

Frankly, scrappage only creates a small blip in the economy. It only works if there is a proper system in place. Some aspects are

The car being scrapped should be operational and have a fitness certificate. Then you now you are actually taking a polluting car off the road. Scrapping incentives for those abandoned heaps will not improve the air quality

Processing a scrapped car properly. It should be done properly and officially. Currently, the informal sector can make a car disappear. My neighbour had an Esteem (PY regd) which was supposed to be repossessed for years (part of some deal with a company that went bankrupt). He needed to replace it so he found a scrap buyer who wanted the engine so it disappeared.

Abandoned cars on public roads should be seized and scrapped. Its no use wasting time tracing the owner for something of very little value.

The biggest incentive for orderly scrapping is to curb usage like in European cities. Any diesel car less than Euro 6 are now banned from cities or need to pay a higher tax or only used outside peak hours. This make it only worth it for actual classic cars or personal/occassional use.