[aniyo]

I voted yes, and I believe they have already taken over from Maruti. Leaving aside the entry segment and the Dzire segment which is dominated by first time buyers and cabs resp. in higher segment Hyundai has outclassed Maruti. For eg.
Creta+ Seltos= 9x S-cross
Venue+ Sonet= 2x Brezza
Verna=Ciaz
Tuscon= No competition
Santafe= No competition
Kia carnival= No competition
No competition= Ertiga
i20= 1/2 Baleno
Grand i10=1/3 Swift

So if we see the segment which are profit churners Hyundai is way ahead. They will match Maruti with less than half the sales.
Lower segment Maruti will dominate, as people move up the ladder Hyundai and others will fair better

[DriveOnceMore]

Going by the love for MSIL we Indians have, it seems very difficult for any brand to upset them in near future.

1. Theoretically Maruti, after discontinuing the diesel mill altogether, should have taken a noticeable hit in sales numbers, which they didn't.
Instead they achieved their lifetime high sales figure in Oct 2020.

2. No other brand has foothold in small car market, i.e. sub 6 lakhs rupee car, like MSIL.
Hyundai tried it multiple times and succeeded to smaller extent but never managed to topple them. Remember small cars brings in the volumes for them or any manufacturer.

3. Now Maruti is gearing up for the future with borrowing electric tech from Toyota and they'll soon gain significant technology upgrade to launch several EVs. Other brand's will also launch EVs, some have launched already, but again we Indians know only one thing 'Why buy anything else when we have Maruthi?'

So these are the reasons I Voted NO.

[Raghu M]

Voted a NO

I think what we have to see in terms of nos. is the fact that Maruti will still lead the charts in terms of nos. but will lose out the gap to Hyundai (not Kia). I would like to separate the two brands as Kia has a long long way to go. With only premium cars in offering, Kia doesn't stand a chance (at least in the next decade) to compete with brands like Maruti. The fact that you do not have a budget car and your service centers are still not dotted all around plays to Maruti's advantage. On the other hand, Hyundai has good chances of moving ahead and closing the gap but will still take quite some time to become the no. 1.

Maruti's brand value in the rural areas is very hard to beat but not impossible. We'll have to see how the sector plays out in the next few years. Fuel prices, EV subsidy, GST and of course international market swing are key factors.

[aniketi]

In near future, answer is NO, in long term can't say. Maruti has strong customer base in India with large number of showrooms and service centers. Maruti will also bring in some good models in near future so that it will again compete with all others. Surely Hyundai and Kia are doing great, but they are eating market share from Ford, VW, Skoda, Toyota, Honda, Renault etc. than Maruti & Tata. These companies has to worry more than Maruti. Kia has mainly eaten share from all these companies and not from Maruti.

End of the day, company who has good car at good price with good engine and features will sell. Time for other to gear up?

[sreejithkk]

They will not untill they have equally competitive/better products in the lower/other segments. Also while maruti's are termed tin can, Hyundai also I believe should prove the safety of their cars by providing same to the GNCAP. As of now only current generation santro is being tested by GNCAP which got 2* rating. Ratings were not great for their earlier generation cars as well.
When I purchased my next car (2019 Ertiga), I wanted to try a different brand other than Maruti, mainly to avoid the interior rattles , which is always there in my 2007 wagonR. However I could not find an option in south of 9.99 lakh ex showroom range. If you look at the recent sales chart, ertiga+XL6 consistently sell more than 10K every month and still no one, (may be triber is an exception as it is in a lower segment) tried with a competitive product in that segment.

So I would rather prefer the safety conscious brands like Tata and Mahindra to trump Maruti instead of Hyundai + Kia

[RaghuVis]

Well most of your points, though valid, are pretty irrelevant in this thread.

Originally Posted by andafunda

1. Dealerships trying to "upsell" a model or "cross sell" another color playing on the customer's excitement for a new car.

Its just smart marketing. What is stopping from MSIL to do this? Hyundai/KIA are able to do this because they give a very large spread of variants.

Originally Posted by andafunda

2. Prioritizing electronics and silly features over build quality. All the "SUVs" that Hyundai-Kia sell in the 10-20L bracket have, in my humble opinion, pretty poor build quality. Brake failures. No clear information of NCAP ratings for Indian models. The Korean dealerships in Mumbai couldn't tell me the NCAP rating of the Creta or Seltos, while this is one (of the very few) thing that the Tata dealerships knew of. Shows what they prioritize.

Most of the "silly features" you mentioned are eventually made market standard and that is only because Hyundai chose to bring it in the first place. And which build quality or NCAP rating of MSIL are you comparing with Hyundai? Why are we bringing other manufacturers here? This is not an appropriate thread for that.

Originally Posted by andafunda

3. Control of media and influencers. Not a peep in the media about serious issues such as brake failures. One bad panel gap on a Tata car and the entire influencer ecosystem loses its collective minds.

Hyundai has been in India for more than 20 years. You cannot survive on poor brakes for this long! Both MSIL and Hyundai have generally won heart of Indian consumers for long enough with or without media. Just would like to add about TATA here. If TATA has had bad perception, that's their own fault of giving low quality product with dozens of niggles. Just like how they deserve all the credit for being leader of safety.

Originally Posted by andafunda

4. No reaction to serious and critical issues. They don't even acknowledge the issue. With Tata, Mahindra and Maruti, I can just write to SEBI. With Toyota, Honda and VW, I can write to their boards. Best of luck doing this with the Koreans.

That is a very interesting take. No comments!

Originally Posted by andafunda

5. They prioritize the dealership over you. Ever highlighted an issue to Hyundai? In most cases, it is referred back to the dealership. Try the same with Maruti or Tata and see the difference. Even Skoda/VW act with enough pressure.

This is one area where MSIL trumps not just Hyundai but almost everyone. Most dealers are terrified of MSIL and it reflects in their behavior towards customers.

Originally Posted by andafunda

India needs better and safer cars, not ventilated seats and air purifiers.

Again, you are probably posting something meant for another thread. Lets stick to main topic here please.

[srishiva]

Where Maruti needs to change is in giving premium build and features. I dont think its that difficult. They are not doing it because its not required for them currently. Hyundai had to, to differentiate.

With Toyota's support, they can easily come up with hybrid/electric drivetrains. Again when they decide to. Its not the know how but something stops the Japanese to under feature their cars. They need a kick behind and customers will get good value and choices.

[andafunda]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

Well most of your points, though valid, are pretty irrelevant in this thread.

My points were relating to how the Indian market needs better competition and not necessarily more competition. I do not believe Hyundai-Kia can provide that and I hope more consumers can see past the fancy marketing. I wrote these points in the context of Hyundai gaining more market share on back of their current strategy. Remember, they are a multi-billion dollar chaebol. They should aim for better.

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

Its just smart marketing. What is stopping from MSIL to do this? Hyundai/KIA are able to do this because they give a very large spread of variants.

It is not fancy marketing. It is downright immoral behaviour by the dealerships. If trying to upsell me a more expensive model that I did not opt for, by dangling an earlier delivery date, AFTER my booking isn't unethical, I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

And which build quality or NCAP rating of MSIL are you comparing with Hyundai?

I'm just refering to better competition. If customers are taking to their products, then they have an opportunity to match the better competition on features that are most critical - safety and build quality. If they don't, then we know how they treat India as a market. Curiously, the group acts like a responsbile car maker in Western nations. I wonder why.

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

That is a very interesting take. No comments!

Have had personal experience of taking the SEBI route for a listed company. Works like a charm.

[aaggoswami]

Voted No.

Suzuki is pretty weak in segments above Rs. 10 lakh, but under Rs. 6 lakh they are unbeatable. Ranging from the old but still a workhorse 3-cylinder F8 engine nesting under the hood of Alto, or the brilliant K-series small capacity engines, Suzuki has earned a reputation of reliability and fuel efficiency. That is pretty hard to beat in India, more so in suburban areas where Suzuki has got a good stronghold. Sure, Hyundai is doing well too, but then so is Tata. Alto, Celerio, Wagon R, Eeco are cars against which the Korean Duo are not having any answers, and I dont exepct them to have any answer too owing to a more premium image they have built.

The "budget segment" image Suzuki has garnered over the years is one of the reasons that its premium offerings have repeatedly lost ground. Also, lack of wider engine range is another contributing factor. A blunder by Suzuki is under-estimating diesel market size. On paper the calculations are just theoretical, practically diesels have much better efficiency in urban confines and while cruising.

Koreans wont be able to upset Suzuki for foreseeable future, but I would like to split this question into two :
1. Can Korean Duo upset Suzuki in Budget segment and
2. Can Suzuki+Toyota upset Korean Duo in Rs. 10-20 lakh segment ?

[nsbhagwat]

Voted No.

Maruti is very strong in the hatch and sedan segment and the Korean twins will find it very hard to beat Maruti. Maruti has a very strong dealer base in the city and hinterland, the FE for the products is good, very high reliability, very good customer experience.

Kia has a long way to go. The twins will have to match Maruti on the price and as well as products spread if they aim to be on par with Maruti. October figure for Maruti 163000 plus, Hyundai 56000 plus, a long way to go.

[sunnsood]

Originally Posted by Maverick Avi

There are 2 aspects where Maruti usually takes a beating. One is tin can reputation of their cars and other is design. I don't know if anyone has that data but am sure lot of Maruti buyers do not usually test drive the vehicles. They already come with a fixed minset due to the brand image and reliability. Where Hyundai is trumping Maruti is the population who research and take test drives before finalising cars. There is no doubt that any common man who takes a test drive of similar segment car from Hyundai and Maruti would come back impressed from Hyundai.

I was recently in the market for a cng car for my wife. O wanted the safest car for her and she wanted the most fuel efficient. As there are limited options in cng space, we shortlisted Celerio, WagonR , Santro and i10 nios. Since budget was not a constraint, we first went to Maruti showrooms in noida. All were hellbent on booking the car than on even showing what I will be buying. When I insisted for test drives none called back.


Visited nimbus Hyundai showroom in noida. Got test drive on santro and i10 nios cng and plenty of time to make up my mind. I took delivery of Santro 2 weeks back and the whole experience was great.

[Skorp_Knight]

The answer is- in the short term of say 3-5 years, certainly not.
In the long term however, if they continue to bring such high quality products with all the variant options they offer, by the end of decade I wouldn't be surprised if they start edging close to MSIL.
At the current state of the market, the competition just doesn't seem to be able to catch up to the Korean duo in terms of features they offer, the high quality standards and all the engine and transmission options one can wish for. If this continues, even other manufacturers have a threat of being wiped out (looking at you, Honda).

[headbanger]

Theoretically who has the best chance of beating Maruti? Hyundai twins.

Anyone else? Nope.

Practically, Hyundai and Kia can dent Maruti on volumes, but to state that they can dethrone MSL from volume perspective, it's too thin a chance. The difference is simply too big and the volume churner segments has Maruti written all over it. Just count the cars every 50k- 80k difference- Alto, S Presso, Celerio, Wagon R, Ignis, Swift, Dzire, Baleno. Heck, Hyundai doesn't even compete on those segments like Alto.

Where Hyundai bros can definitely trump MSL are the profits. We got a Sonet which is practically speaking a bloated hatch less than a shade below 15L. While we are happy with the purchase, no points guessing who went smiling to the bank.

If electric vehicles really disrupt the car industry, then it's anybody's game. The existing advantages will be nullified to a large extent. But will it pan out the way like we are anticipating?

[aniketi]

Difficult to beat Maruti. Why ? See below -

1 Alto - Almost no competition in market. Sells in volumes.
2 S-presso, Wagon R, Ignis, Baleno, Celerio and Swift - Market has very little competition and models to beat Maruti here. Also not many has answer to Maruti's 1.2 K series engine.
3 Eeco - Competition? What are you talking about here?
4 Dzire - Has competition but none is able to compete much.
5 Ertiga - Market don't have any answer, even Maruti eating Innova business now.
6 S-cross, Brezza - Market has lots of competition but Brezza is still pulling customers.

So in volume business it's very hard to beat Maruti. Others can try but they still don't have any answer yet for sure.

Other segments Maruti is still not there. Others must be praying that Maruti will not come there. Once they are in those segments, surely others start losing their business.

[xjosephjacob]

I had voted 'Yes', however on second thoughts I think I overlooked the point that for Maruti, it might be just a matter of launching one right product in the 10-15 lac space- a made in India Suzuki Vitara/Toyota RAV (with it's Toyota/Maruti cousin) could easily turn the tide. With atleast 4x the number of service touch points compared to the Koreans, access to the Toyota's EV technology and strong customer trust, I believe they indeed have so much resources under the belt that they can super-accelerate the EV disruptions happening in the country.