[Nithesh_M]

The Carnival was the outgoing model. Kia decided to dump the last few models here before moving to next gen model. By doing that they also got to gauge the measure of interest in premium vehicles for their brand. And from what my tier 2 dealer says, the brand views it as a success. He told me last month that despite being in a tier 2 city with narrow roads his sole dealership has so far sold 35 Carnivals and a large number of them in the Limousine variant.

My next door neighbor who happens to be a doctor owns one despite living in the narrowest lane possible. What's more, he likes it so much he daily drives it to work and the sight of him reversing the behemoth out of his house and onto our narrow lane is a sight to behold 4 times everyday. One miscalculation and that thing will spend weeks in the service station for parts.

[ComicCharcoal]

Felt KIA SONET DCT to be over-priced. At 13 L (on-road Karnataka), its the costliest in class automatic car (lowest model). Also, I was surprised that the diesel automatic (torque converter though) is cheaper by 6k.

Even venue DCT starts at 11.6 Lakhs.

[Maverick Avi]

There are 2 aspects where Maruti usually takes a beating. One is tin can reputation of their cars and other is design. I don't know if anyone has that data but am sure lot of Maruti buyers do not usually test drive the vehicles. They already come with a fixed minset due to the brand image and reliability. Where Hyundai is trumping Maruti is the population who research and take test drives before finalising cars. There is no doubt that any common man who takes a test drive of similar segment car from Hyundai and Maruti would come back impressed from Hyundai.

I voted No as Maruti still has quite a formidable reputation that is hard to replace. There would be ups and downs in their market share but some of their offerings in budget and small car segment is still unparalleled and would keep their cash registers ringing. The current onslaught from Korean rivals should be a good alarm bell for them to get some well built and good looking cars as that seems to the current demand!

[Mustang Sammy]

Still no official acknowledgement from Hyundai or Kia about the recently reported brake failures. In these days of instant transmission of bad news, they need to respond quickly else they will lose a lot of goodwill.

[Cessna182]

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

Err what? Since when is a sub 4m vehicle competing with a 4.3m vehicle segment?
Inadvertently you hit the point on the head though as to why a sub 4m product is hitting OTR pricing of 15+lakhs when cars a segment above can be had for the same money in around the same ballpark.

Nexon EV costs less than a Creta top model. There's no denying that an EV involves far more tech than an ICE vehicle. As for the length, it doesn't affect the space inside at least for the Creta.

[Thermodynamics]

Voted for "others" category. It is trivial to expect #2 (duo sisters) would rise to #1.

But I think, going forward when EVs and full hybrids become a norm, our market space could be dominated by totally different breed of manufacturers. It could be some one aggressively filing patents such as Tesla, Toyota and the like. Or it can even be a "Tech" company that would assemble EVs like a computer peripheral and everything else (Driving/Charging/Maintenance) taken care by AI.

[frewper]

Well I hope it does upset Maruti. Maruti is solely living on the sasti hai, isilye chalti hai mentality. If they are putting a car out which rattles all the time, they need to have competion like this. Atleast it will make them to think.

[ChrisTJ]

When other carmakers have similar number of service centers across the country, reign of Maruti Suzuki will end.

Honestly, people buy a Suzuki because it's dirt cheap to maintain and the service centers are everywhere.

[Nithesh_M]

Originally Posted by Cessna182

Nexon EV costs less than a Creta top model. There's no denying that an EV involves far more tech than an ICE vehicle. As for the length, it doesn't affect the space inside at least for the Creta.

EV involves batteries and electric motors and a controller. Not much "tech" involved there as batteries and motors are imported items usually across manufacturers. Cooling and storage is the only tech part for manufacturers who assemble or retrofit electric drivetrain into existing chassis.

By your own logic should the Nexon EV be cheaper because KUV100 electric is scheduled to go on sale at half the Nexon EV price?

And I'd beg to differ on the space front. The Creta not only manages to get a bigger boot but also extra leg space in the back aswell. Extra space is the biggest reason the Seltos and Creta are doing big numbers for a year now.

[landcruiser123]

No - because Big Daddy Toyota will save Suzuki. The Chinese will be sweating now.

If Kia and Hyundai want to sell more cars, they should:

• Have 10 models combined (Hyundai + Kia) to compete at every price point.
• Be the first to the mass-EV game. Kona was good start, but they need to penetrate the lower segments
• Start competing on "Kitna deti hai"

I'd love to see Hyundai + Kia build a brand by getting a good foothold in the more premium segments (Tucson, Santa Fe, Palisade/Telluride, Elantra/Optima, Stinger etc) and then come to the volumes segment when mass EVs are ready for adoption.

[RaghuVis]

This takes me to an article published few years back when the then Hyundai India MD Mr Y.K.Koo openly admitted that we are not in the volume game with Maruti but will focus on being a premium innovative car brand.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...slaught-2.html (Hyundai seeks own space amid Maruti Suzuki’s onslaught)


Some people ridiculed him for openly admitting it. Three years down the line, their vision for the company is exactly where they wanted it. Just imagine the things that happened with Hyundai in the last three years:

1) They introduced KIA.
2) They introduced a proper electric car Kona.
3) New technology with iMT (Ok not entirely new but at least in those segments where they are available!)
4) Small turbo engines available for so many small cars.
5) Aspirational cars. Go and ask 100 common public. Majority would want to buy i20 over a Baleno, Venue/Sonet over Brezza, Verna over Ciaz and Creta/Seltos over anything else.
6) Absolutely consistent with their vision.

Now look at what the number one manufacture did for the last three years:

1) The only new cars introduced in the last three years are XL6 and S-Presso and Ignis. While XL6 is just a tweak to look premium, Ignis is almost a flop. Only hit car is S-presso which is a fun car but a volume generator car at best.
2) After being in the market for 35 odd years they finally had a diesel engine on its own- Only to stop selling the same in 9 months! Talk about vision.
3) Apart from Swift, I don't think MSIL has any car that is Aspirational. People buy them only for economy and reachability of service centers.
4) Introduced a turbo engine in Baleno which was a half hearted effort and quickly removed that as well.
5) Still using an automatic gearbox which is older than most Team-bhpians.
6) Change MSIL logo to Toyota and sell cars. I mean wow. what a vision.
7) Rather than showing their car, they are showing a calculator to those who are interested in their cars and smirking at them "Calculate Kia Kya" . I mean how much low can they go?

MSIL has no answer to Hyundai in this game so far. As predicted by many, couple of years down the line, Hyundai will overtake them in terms of revenue/profit.

[atnyia]

I agree to the point that Hyundai-Kia are more aspirational to Maruti, especially since the arrival of Elite i20 and Creta in 2014-15. Creta was the like the Innova moment for Hyundai, where they unlocked the margins as well as built the aspirational value.
Still, can they really beat the Maruti? That's going to be extremely hard thing to do. I am one of the rare guys who jumped ship from Korean (Santro, i10, Getz) to Maruti (Ciaz).

Am I satisfied? Yes.

Even while ignoring the fact that Ciaz was bought for similar price as i20 for me; during the last five years, the ASS side experience has been flawless wrt cost, quality of service as well as their in-house insurance (cheaper than open market) . We struggled with ASS of Hyundai almost always wrt unnecessary cost additions, at times unreasonably expensive spares and recurrent issues in i10.

The ownership experience at Maruti has been stress-free and more fulfilling. It's hard to say whether my next car will be from Maruti again. However, they keep coming with decent enough products like the new Ertiga.

The brand has it's own strengths which makes it difficult to dislodge. More difficult than what people on this thread are gauging, just based on the current product lineup.

[jasjotbains]

The only reason I believe Maruti is still there on the top is that Kia does not have:
1. An extensive reach in the ASS market.
2. A volume generating car in the below 5lac range.
3. A simple variant layout

If Kia can cross shop with Hyundai for the Santro engine and introduce a sub 5L car, it's going to be tough for MSIL

[andafunda]

It is quite interesting to read claims about the masses wanting a Hyundai product over a Maruti Suzuki. Would love to understand and analyze the research that went behind these claims.

I am all for more competition, however I wish it came from carmakers who believe in the concept of safety and handling, before silly styling and electronics. I'd rather VW, Honda and Toyota get their game up.

The below is a summary of the experiences I've heard from my friends and on this forum about the Korean siblings:

1. Dealerships trying to "upsell" a model or "cross sell" another color playing on the customer's excitement for a new car. You book a VFM trim and are given a 4-8 week timeline. In the second week, you get a call that a car in a particular colour and trim (usually higher models) has suddenly been made available and you can get it within a week. If you check the VIN, it is a 2-3 month old car, most likely already at the dealerships stockyard. Happened with a couple of people I know and has been reported on this forum as well. Yes, Tata dealers are terrible but have never heard such incidents about them.

2. Prioritizing electronics and silly features over build quality. All the "SUVs" that Hyundai-Kia sell in the 10-20L bracket have, in my humble opinion, pretty poor build quality. Brake failures. No clear information of NCAP ratings for Indian models. The Korean dealerships in Mumbai couldn't tell me the NCAP rating of the Creta or Seltos, while this is one (of the very few) thing that the Tata dealerships knew of. Shows what they prioritize.

3. Control of media and influencers. Not a peep in the media about serious issues such as brake failures. One bad panel gap on a Tata car and the entire influencer ecosystem loses its collective minds.

4. No reaction to serious and critical issues. They don't even acknowledge the issue. With Tata, Mahindra and Maruti, I can just write to SEBI. With Toyota, Honda and VW, I can write to their boards. Best of luck doing this with the Koreans.

5. They prioritize the dealership over you. Ever highlighted an issue to Hyundai? In most cases, it is referred back to the dealership. Try the same with Maruti or Tata and see the difference. Even Skoda/VW act with enough pressure.

I'm all for more competition in the Indian market. But, I'd like better competition. So, I'll continue to root for Tata, VW/Skoda, Honda and Toyota to do better.

India needs better and safer cars, not ventilated seats and air purifiers.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

This takes me to an article published few years back when the then......

Now look at what the number one manufacture did for the last three years:

1) The only new cars introduced in the last three years are XL6 and S-Presso and Ignis. While XL6 is just a tweak to look premium, Ignis is almost a flop. Only hit car is S-presso which is a fun car but a volume generator car at best.
........

MSIL has no answer to Hyundai in this game so far. As predicted by many, couple of years down the line, Hyundai will overtake them in terms of revenue/profit.

I have mentioned this before but Suzuki knows technologically speaking it was in dire straits and would last another decade with upheavals taking place technologically bin the market. So, they had shut shop and focussed internally on upgrading and acquiring/testing new technology and working on future technologies with Toyota. Hence not a single Global car was launched in last 2-2.5 years.

As far as I hear from Suzuki guys, they are in better shape now and a slew of launches are planned over next 4-5 years including EVs.

What should worry the competition is that even without new models, if these buggers are able to sell 1.3-1.6 lac vehicles every month, then what would happen when they start revamping their line up. Suzuki's Achilles heal would of course be it's deservedly non premium image and would dent its chances of success in the urban market where buyers tend to be supposedly well informed (at least in their opinion) and image conscious. But the real game changer from what I hear is the regulation line up the government has lined up - CAFE Phase 3, RDE, Newer Crash regulations and revival of the idea of Bharat NCAP.

No wonder Toyota is buying cars from Suzuki, so that they can lower their fleet FE.