[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by SreeT

The reason why Toyotas are so reliable is very apparent here. The ls 500h makes 354 hp from a hybrid 3.5 L Twin Turbo V6 while an European car, the Giulia Quadrifoglio for e.g. makes 510 hp from a 2.9 L Twin Turbo V6 engine. This conservative approach to engineering is what makes Toyotas so reliable.

Comparing engine output to displacement is not how reliability works. The Quadrifoglio is a high-performance car, so the engine has been pushed harder. Hondas - the S2000 and Civic Type Rs come to mind - have been making 125+ hp/litre in naturally aspirated form for 20 years now, with no reliability issues. Toyota's own 3S-GTE and 2JZ-GTEs will run for decades at nearly 200 hp/litre with nothing more than standard maintenance.

The USSR's ZIL used to make a limousine with a 6 litre capacity that put out 200 hp. It was still unreliable.

Reliability engineering is broader in scope than just volumetric efficiency.

[SreeT]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Reliability engineering is broader in scope than just volumetric efficiency.

Volumetric efficiency refers to the ability of the IC engine to pump the air and fuel mixture. What you mean is specific power output.

[DonHyd]

Lexus definitely knows this car is not for volumes. It is for those rich people to whom 1 crore and 10 crore are not very different. While it can't hold a candle even to the regular s class in terms of ride quality/ rear seat/ performance, leave alone Maybach, it appeals to those who want ultra reliability with acceptable(not extreme) levels of luxury.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Can't discern the difference between this car and the regular Lexus LS500. From the outside you can't really distinguish one from the other. .

Thats because they used the only Lexus LS500 in India, i.e. their demo car for the pictures. My office is in the same building and I saw them taking pictures of the car at that particular angle when nipping out for lunch!

[gthang]

Handcrafted luxury has a price. 35 lakhs extra for work of expert craftsmen seems a bargain when marquees like Lamborghini can charge more for some paint options.

Who would have thunk that there is a Seiko that costs almost half a million dollars? But such a beast exists, and there are buyers for it.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...ion-tourbillon

Price can be subjective.

Cheers

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Sorry I have not sat in either a Maybach or a Lexus LS. Are there any significant differences in the two? Is the Lexus severely lacking in anything when compared to the Maybach?

A Lexus LS starts at $76,000 in the US:

https://www.lexus.com/models/LS

A Mercedes-Maybach S 560 starts at $173,000 in the US:

https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/mo...maybach/s560x4

In India the LS costs more than Maybach

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

A Lexus LS starts at $76,000 in the US:

A Mercedes-Maybach S 560 starts at $173,000 in the US:

Yes as V1P3R pointed out the Maybach is an extended S-Class with a longer wheelbase. The base S-Class itself starts at 20k USD more than the LS over there.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

In India the LS costs more than Maybach

I suppose in south east asian markets the lower average height reduces the requirement for a sub-brand catering to more luxurious (longer wheelbase) versions of a flagship car. I guess the USP being reliability is what appeals even more in developing nations where consumer protection laws and infrastructure are not reliable. I suppose they are only here to cater to a small but staunch audience who believes in the brand's reliability and I feel since Toyota has always seemed a bit miffed with the Indian governments taxation on their cars, they might be making up for it by charging whatever they want. At the end of the day while Lexus/Toyota may not invoke a sense of as much luxury as a German badge, it still has its own brand value in the market.

[shortbread]

A standard Lexus LS starts at $76k, a standard S class starts at $74k.

Lexus only does limited run releases of their special versions, I think the last release in the US was the 'Inspiration series'.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

A Lexus LS starts at $76,000 in the US:

https://www.lexus.com/models/LS

A Mercedes-Maybach S 560 starts at $173,000 in the US:

https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/mo...maybach/s560x4

In India the LS costs more than Maybach

[ASP007]

A closer look at the "Nishijin & Haku", which translates to 'path of moonlight on the sea', this involves traditional Japanese ornamentation work. The ornamentation is created by intricately weaving silver threads of 'Nishijin' brocade to express shimmering waves and applying the extremely thin 'Haku' platinum metal foil reminiscent of 'moonlight' shining on waves.



I say Japanese ornamentation work is costly, and who would get a Lexus in India over a Maybach?

[Claws]

Originally Posted by TusharK

Lexus has launched a new variant of the LS luxury sedan in India. It is called the LS 500h Nishijin and it costs Rs. 2.22 crore (ex-showroom, Delhi).
====
The combined output of this hybrid powertrain is 354 BHP @ 6,600 rpm / 350 Nm @ 5,100 rpm. It comes equipped with a 10-speed multi stage hybrid transmission (ECVT).

The prices and the interior baffle me. Can't completely blame Lexus for the price; import duty is the culprit. I looked up the same car and the same variant on the U.S website and found out that it costs 60- something lakhs there!! (2021 LS 550h Luxury hasn't been launched there yet, but looking at the other variants, I can speculate that it will come below 70L)
Well, even after all this, the car will most probably find owners here. A unique magic only Toyota and Lexus have mastered!!

[SatyRoy]

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[slayer23]

Very interesting to see perspectives here. I agree with the view that price is subjective - luxury definition varies from person to person. Lexus is an amazing car [had the chance to experience this closely in Dubai]. It resonates with Japanese ethos of calmness, peace and intricacy. It provides a very different experience compared to German/Italian luxury players.

2.5cr is indeed a huge price tag in India. But I am sure this appeals to the kind of people who align with the Japanese philosophies. Honestly at this level, I believe people go for something that is close to their personalities and how they want to project themselves. For some, it is flamboyance, power and performance while for others it is being classy & elegant.

[veedub]

I think this car is for those who have used the European barges in the last couple of decades and the story didn't end well. People who buy these cars with the full intention of putting good amount of miles on it before letting the car go (highway runners). They might like something that will do duty longer and whose engine can be maintained without dropping it out of the car every 50k miles.
Sure the engine is small. In comparison, the Europeans have upto 2x the number of cylinders but who would want a dependable workhorse that returns 2-5kmpl. It may not reach 200kph as fast but it will at some point and won't have to be at the workshop as often.
These cars are supposed to be sedately driven. Even RRs are tuned in a way that they will accelerate smoothly regardless of how hard the pedal is pressed.
It's rare because few people want to spend that kind of money on a Toyota. It is for the kind of people who will pay any money as long as it's a Toyota. And it looks pretty. The presence is no less striking than a Rolls/Bentley.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by ASP007

The ornamentation is created by intricately weaving silver threads of 'Nishijin' brocade to express shimmering waves and applying the extremely thin 'Haku' platinum metal foil reminiscent of 'moonlight' shining on waves.

So basically this is brocade work and varq. Both of which have been done in India for millenia. I'll wager that a 20k sari has more artistry than this stuff!

Originally Posted by slayer23

Lexus is an amazing car [had the chance to experience this closely in Dubai]. It resonates with Japanese ethos of calmness, peace and intricacy. It provides a very different experience compared to German/Italian luxury players.

I don't know about philosophy, but 99% of the Ubers in Dubai are Lexus ES. The Dubai local taxis are Camrys, and both are essentially the same car. They're super reliable, tough as nails, and have an acceptable level of comfort. I wouldn't ascribe any philosophy to them. Mind you, I own 2 Toyotas, one of which is pretty rare.

Originally Posted by veedub

People who buy these cars with the full intention of putting good amount of miles on it before letting the car go (highway runners). They might like something that will do duty longer and whose engine can be maintained without dropping it out of the car every 50k miles.
Sure the engine is small. In comparison, the Europeans have upto 2x the number of cylinders but who would want a dependable workhorse that returns 2-5kmpl.

I can confidently state, with near certainty, that no one buys these cars as highway haulers. If you spend 2.2 cr on a car, you can afford a 1 cr GLS or Q7 as a second/third car, which are more efficient on Indian highways with better ground clearance, or just fly business class or private for longer distances. These are for toodling around town, an office commute, or an evening out, almost always chauffeured.

Originally Posted by veedub

In comparison, the Europeans have upto 2x the number of cylinders but who would want a dependable workhorse that returns 2-5kmpl. It may not reach 200kph as fast but it will at some point and won't have to be at the workshop as often.

If you want efficiency in gas mileage to save money, then you shouldn't buy a 2.2 cr car. If you buy a regular S350d, you'll save more than enough. Heck, you can buy an S and save enough to buy a diesel E Class, AND have money left over for a nice Swift diesel. That will solve both your workshop woes and mileage problems.

Let's face it, Lexus is high on something. Toyota has constantly played this game in India, this is just the latest square cut. Each of their cars is priced far higher than it is in most countries worldwide, and they know they'll get away with it for UVs where reliability and frugality are important. They get their backside handed to them by the market when it comes to petrol sedans, expensive SUVs and other stuff. The Lexus ES is about the only car which is competitive in its range. This dumb launch will go the way of the Yaris, Etios, Liva, and whatever other idiocy they've tried. Let them stick to their Innovas and Fortuners, and at least keep the quality up there.

[E30_325iSport]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Yes as V1P3R pointed out the Maybach is an extended S-Class with a longer wheelbase. The base S-Class itself starts at 20k USD more than the LS over there.

Possibly the most sensible post on this thread. The Lexus power plant is an NA, not turbo. Lexus is a distinct brand, yes they do use the brand on Toyotas as well, but higher end Lexuses are indeed Lexuses. This is unlike Maybach, which started out as a rebadged S-Class 10 years ago or so, realised they weren't fooling anyone by making a more expensive Airport taxi, killed the brand for a short while and have now relaunched as a Trim Level. I'd place a S-Class far lower on exclusivity and taste than an LS.

Bonus is that Lexuses won't break. The Germans on the other hand, will go wrong and badly so. There is a reason they haven't dabbled in Hybrid Powertrains all this while, because whilst they've played the safe game of flogging ever more complicated diesels, they've never really had the foundations of quality that a Hybrid propulsion system requires in order to function flawlessly over thousands of miles.

Originally Posted by v1p3r

So basically this is brocade work and varq. Both of which have been done in India for millenia. I'll wager that a 20k sari has more artistry than this stuff!

Hate to break it to you, a multinational car giant doesn't give two hoots about a few angry people on a forum.

Looking at the situation logically, India is not an outlier when it comes to the newer Korean companies outmanoeuvring the traditional players. This is happening in all markets. Toyota is not immune to this, after all they did this to the West in the middle of the last century too. That is not to say that Toyota are incapable of mastering markets. I see it more as a sign that they have misunderstood customer priorities (they got it right in the 7 seater market).