[HKap]

I've sat in the LS500 and the three germans back to back at the Toronto Auto show. My honest opinion of the germans was that they seemed like larger versions of their 5/E/A6 with a bit more leather. The LS felt like a much bigger jump over the ES. The materials used were leagues ahead of the germans. Now, I've never been in a Rolls or a Bentley but most reviews for the LC and LS suggest that the cabin is almost as good as the Rolls or Bentley. That is some serious praise. The lounge like rear seats in the Lexus felt FANTASTIC. Having said that, 2.5 cr is crazy. If this were priced competitively like it is in the US, my money would go to Lexus. It's more comfy and won't break down as much as the germans....and holds its value better. Also, I wouldn't be buying this for driving pleasure so the marginally better drive in the 7 series is irrelevant.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by E30_325iSport

Hate to break it to you, a multinational car giant doesn't give two hoots about a few angry people on a forum.

Thanks for the condescension buddy, but you'll find that this forum has managed to influence more than one manufacturer. Also, I speak from experience of being an automotive engineer (just like you are) in markets across the world, and owning both German and Japanese cars. No one's really angry here, we're just at Toyota's idiocy.

Also, I wish you'd read my post in its entirety, because I said pretty much what you did...

Originally Posted by E30_325iSport

...I see it more as a sign that they have misunderstood customer priorities (they got it right in the 7 seater market).

Also, not that I'm a cheerleader for the fatherland, but the Germans have been selling hybrids for a while now.

[E30_325iSport]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Thanks for the condescension buddy, but you'll find that this forum has managed to influence more than one manufacturer. Also, I speak from experience of being an automotive engineer (just like you are) in markets across the world, and owning both German and Japanese cars. No one's really angry here, we're just at Toyota's idiocy.

Yea perhaps I got a little carried away. Fistbump to an Industry colleague
You're right the Germans have been selling hybrids recently, but the technology (and implementation) has never been in Toyota's league. Conversely though, diesels have never been Toyota's strong point. Unfortunately, the market is turning against diesels now and the Germans are having to jump on the electrification bandwagon.

Happily however, in developed markets where emissions regulations are killing IC engines, other than for tax-dodging reasons Hybrids are proving a difficult sell, so the Germans are advocating leapfrogging to EVs. Unfortunately they're behind the Japs on this front also, as well as on what looks like the most plausible end solution i.e. Hydrogen Fuel Cells (and this despite BMW having a FC 7er in its line up for years now I believe).

If anything this Lexus will act as a Halo model to showcase Toyota's Hybrid expertise. Hybrids are certainly a workable option in the Indian context where mass availability of charging points are a moonshot, at best.

I also believe that brand perception is a byproduct of cultural effects. In cultures where wealth is openly flaunted, a brand like Lexus will have few takers. In other cultures, discretion is more the norm and here, brands like Lexus find their fans. Additionally Lexus have, in developed markets, by far and away the best Customer service experience. The Germans are at rock bottom, despite hawking their brands to all and sundry, act as though you're doing them a favour by walking into their showroom. Again, mature markets are keen to sense this distinction.

So in a sense, I agree that Toyota's India strategy does seem a bit hit and miss, but labelling it an idiocy does an injustice to the nuances of the market and customers.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by E30_325iSport

I also believe that brand perception is a byproduct of cultural effects. In cultures where wealth is openly flaunted, a brand like Lexus will have few takers. In other cultures, discretion is more the norm and here, brands like Lexus find their fans. Additionally Lexus have, in developed markets, by far and away the best Customer service experience. The Germans are at rock bottom, despite hawking their brands to all and sundry, act as though you're doing them a favour by walking into their showroom. Again, mature markets are keen to sense this distinction.

Thank you for stating this. I suspect you meant (bold portion) 'act as though they are doing you a favour by letting you walk into their showroom' . Given that our Indian market is mainly a first generation rich one it is only natural that purchase of a luxury car has a strong component of keeping up with the Singh's and Srnivasan's and that is where the German three fit in for now. And Mercedes and Audi even in the 20th century were the standard bearers in our minds of luxury & status. You wouldn't buy an apartment for Rs. 70 lakhs from a builder known for leaky plumbing, bad electrics & peeling paint. At some point that good sense will catch up on car purchases too.

[androdev]

Sorry guys, lot of out dated information here. Just to remind you we are in 2021.

Lexus is no longer understated and doesn't want to be one. Read up the interviews around the time their gigantic grill was introduced. Have you seen the latest Lexus and Germans cars next to each other?

Germans are not falling apart like before - their quality levels have improved substantially and they offer excellent warranties, service packages and turn around times.

The only cultural difference is the admiration for bulletproof reliability. It is equally vain, equally wasteful and equally bad for the environment.

[KiloAlpha]

Anyone who wants to buy a luxury sedan in this segment is, in all probability, going to compare the Lexus LS to Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7-series, Audi A8, and Volvo S90. Now, unless the buyer particularly wants to buy the LS, there is no reason for them to do so. The Merc S-Class offers the street cred and posh-ness required. Plus, the brand value of the S-Class is very compelling.

Having said that, the LS range starts at 1.91 crores in India. So the 2.22 crores for a special edition is not particularly exorbitant, relatively speaking. Until, that is, you realise that the S-Class starts at 1.38 crores (for the S350d). On road, without discounts, that is about 1 crore price difference between the S350d and LS500h Nishijin Edition.

If I was being really hard nosed about this, I would buy the base S350d plus a Honda City (to use when the S-Class is in the garage) plus a flat to rent out, and use the rent from the flat for maintenance of the S-Class.

[BLACNWYTE]

After reading almost all replies I still can't get over the initial, '2.2 crores and only a V6'. Earlier it was with the Audi A6 with the inline 4 engine. At 2.5 crores on road there should have been at least a twin turbo V8. What's with our luxury car makers and smaller engines. I don't think people cutting cheques for anything over half a crore cares much about FE or insurance slab rates.

[viXit]

Originally Posted by androdev

The only cultural difference is the admiration for bulletproof reliability. It is equally vain, equally wasteful and equally bad for the environment.

Sir, could you please elaborate on this. I'm failing to understand what you're trying to say.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by viXit

Sir, could you please elaborate on this. I'm failing to understand what you're trying to say.

Nothing complicated my friend. I was replying to a post that was suggesting that a 2Cr+ Lexus LS in India is understated and discrete while a substantially cheaper S Class is bought to flaunt. Fact is, current LS is designed to really stand out. Lexus received a lot of flak from their loyal customer when they moved to bolder designs. So this understated/discrete LS is an outdated idea. Btw, I like new LS design including the grill which looks impressive in person.

I disagree with anyone suggesting that LS is not a vanity purchase (2cr+!), or that it is greener (it's a large yacht on road), or that it absolves the owner of any guilt of splurging money on socially irresponsible purchases. But if one wishes to pay nearly 60L-1 Cr premium for LS over S Class because LS is more reliable and offers better customer service, I can totally appreciate that person's preferences and priorities.

[viXit]

Originally Posted by androdev

Nothing complicated my friend.....I can totally appreciate that person's preferences and priorities.

Okay, so by this:

Originally Posted by androdev

....vain, equally wasteful and equally bad for the environment.

You meant that both the perceived unreliable mercs and the perceived green, efficient and reliable lexus are equally good or bad in every aspect while the japs just value reliability more?

If I'm right don't bother replying, just drop a thumbs up. Thanks for the clarification. I haven't felt this dumb in a while.