[Sudarshan42]

When it comes to matters of the future, I'm a hopeless worrier. I worry about saving up enough to be able to do what I want (a mix of ecological conservation and writing, but that's for another time). I also want to be comfortable enough to buy into or maintain a certain lifestyle, which does extend to cars and motorcycles. A perfect case of can't have your cake and eat it too.

This pathological obsession with keeping an eye out on the future has basically rendered me catatonic in the present. I'm unable to follow-through on any decisions related to buying that dream car or bike simply because I feel guilty that the money going into the purchase is not being saved or invested for my future. This Buyer's Guilt as I call it extends to just about all other facets of my life, where I end up treating money as my little workers, eking out a little interest here, a little interest there- all the while holding back some of my other interests.

Don't get me wrong- I'm doing alright. I have enough already in my early thirties to support a family of 3 and take nearly a decade off work (provided all luxuries are set aside). So why am I stuck in this quagmire?

I try and attribute it to being minimalistic, or a vague attempt at being less materialistic in this never-ending cycle of consumption that we all find ourselves in. But let's face it- those are labelled excuses for something you don't want to be in the first place. There are ways of giving back to the environment without having to live like a hermit. Truth is if all of us had our limits removed, the word minimalism wouldn't fit into any of our vocabularies.



What else is it then? Could it be my middle-class grooming that teaches me to squeeze value from everything I own to its absolute hilt? Where the lives of appliances, toothpaste tubes, soaps, paint on the walls, vehicle service intervals, the number of characters in a tweet, the charge on my phone, checkout times at hotels, housework extracted from the maid, the precious few minutes saved- everything is maximised till the very last gasp despite being able to afford a little margin in each case.



Whatever the reason, I feel like I'm forgoing my present in pursuit of a supposedly rosy future. While planning for what is yet to come isn't a particularly bad thing in itself, please avoid falling into the trap that I find myself in. I for one probably will practice mindfulness a little more than I merely tell myself to, and I might just go ahead and buy that sweet-inline 4-middleweight-naked-that's-comfy-but-not-as-heavy-as-its-cheaper-predecessor.

[GTO]

Neat post, man. Couple of thoughts:

- I am also VERY conservative with money. If I can buy a Honda City, I will end up with a Hyundai i10. If I can afford a Rolex, I'll buy the high-end Titan. That's just me. Our family did go through a very rough patch in the late 80s; a rusted & worn out Padmini was the sole car of our house at that time. I guess those memories & stories (from my parents) contributed to this attitude of mine.

- Back to the automotive world, the good news is, it's a myth that you need to spend money to have fun with cars or get driving pleasure. I have had the absolute time of my life with cheap & fun cars like the S-Presso, Alto K10, Brio, Swift (especially with good tyres), Abarth Punto (oh man!!!), Fiesta 1.6, Figo 1.5 Diesel (what a car!), Polo 1.6 TDIs & Rapid 1.0 TSIs (left me grinning for a week after the drive), my 24-year old Jeep with a book value of zero etc. My point is, if you are stingy, but still want to have a lot of fun, there are so many options. The guy who bought my modified Civic for 2.xx lakhs has been high-revving away to glory, I can tell you that .

Two related threads you might want to read:

How much of your annual income is spent on cars?

What car at what salary?

Originally Posted by Sudarshan42

Whatever the reason, I feel like I'm forgoing my present in pursuit of a supposedly rosy future. While planning for what is yet to come isn't a particularly bad thing in itself, please avoid falling into the trap that I find myself in.

It's all about balance and I guess you are looking for that. Between saving for the future & spending a little more on today. Hope you find it soon! What I will add though is that, stretch a little bit more for cars / motorcycles because driving / riding are such good + healthy + positive passions to have. Unlike say, smoking or gambling or alcoholism etc. Driving is good for the mind, body & soul .

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan42

When it comes to matters of the future, I'm a hopeless worrier. ...........Whatever the reason, I feel like I'm forgoing my present in pursuit of a supposedly rosy future. While planning for what is yet to come isn't a particularly bad thing in itself, please avoid falling into the trap that I find myself in. I for one probably will practice mindfulness a little more .....

I can totally identify with what you have written so eloquently. Sometimes I think such behaviour on my part is just a result of my personal circumstances, sometimes I think it's just my ingrained nature. Whatever the cause, I guess it's probably too late to do anything about it.

Anyway, here are a couple of related threads for your browsing pleasure:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...n-context.html (Minimalism in the Indian context?)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...s-savings.html (Are most of us living on the edge? Let's talk about income, expenses & savings)

[Engine_Roars]

I come from a background where I had to work as a office boy to pay my school fees. My childhood has not exactly been child like, well, most of the times. I was always worried about money from the moment I was old enough to understand things. If some one gave me 1 INR to buy a chocolate I would save that for my future food or anything that might come up.

We are in a lot better place now, I have been working since I was 16 and today I am 34. You would think I should spend money to fulfill my dreams that I could not in my childhood but the way situations were, I think my brain/heart is programed in such a way that I am always saving for "bad days".

My girlfriend now wife, comes from a well to do family. She believes in "more we spend, more we get". She is a sucker of positivity. She has brought in some balance in my life when it comes to spending. I still can't sleep peacefully for a day or two after spending on expensive mobiles, watches, shoes etc but I do spend because that makes me happy eventually.

I still keep lot many things on hold. I sold my bike in 2014 to buy a bigger and better one but I still have not been able to spend that money while it is their earning meagre interest as an FD. I don't know if I am being wise or If I am torturing myself today for future that I might not be alive to live. Life, eh!!!

[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by GTO

I will add though is that, stretch a little bit more for cars / motorcycles because driving / riding are such good + healthy + positive passions to have. Unlike say, smoking or gambling or alcoholism etc. Driving is good for the mind, body & soul .

I am completely like you friend! Its absolutely ok to choose what to splurge on and what not to splurge on.

1. I am currently using a Oneplus 3 (which I have repaired 4 times)
2. I own a 2001 Honda CBZ
3. All my cars have been pre-owned!
4. I also own a Access for local travel (as that beats Uber and Ola hands down in Mumbai tight parking areas)
5. I dont drink or smoke

And I would like to believe that I do decently well in my life.

However, when it comes to cars, I have always had cars with low mileage. I believe that there is more to life than KMPL!!

I have been to a lot of places where I wanted to travel.

Choose what you want to spend on and you will be fine! Will balance both!

[Kosfactor]

Money comes and goes - time is precious! Trying to make the best out of their money most people forget to make the best out of their time, their youth. It's a pity and it's never coming back.

Have a hobby. (Never try to monetize it )

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan42

When it comes to matters of the future, I'm a hopeless worrier. I worry about saving up enough to be able to do what I want (a mix of ecological conservation and writing, but that's for another time). I also want to be comfortable enough to buy into or maintain a certain lifestyle, which does extend to cars and motorcycles. A perfect case of can't have your cake and eat it too.

...

Whatever the reason, I feel like I'm forgoing my present in pursuit of a supposedly rosy future. While planning for what is yet to come isn't a particularly bad thing in itself, please avoid falling into the trap that I find myself in. I for one probably will practice mindfulness a little more than I merely tell myself to, and I might just go ahead and buy that sweet-inline 4-middleweight-naked-that's-comfy-but-not-as-heavy-as-its-cheaper-predecessor.

The good part - you are not alone. Your views actually fit something what I see in an earlier generation - my parents (especially my father) and some of my peers fit in this thought process completely. And to be very honest, it is not at all wrong. It's a very pragmatic way of thinking, except for going overboard on the worrying aspect.

But I wouldn't really ask you to feel bad as if you are 'stuck'. You are just following a thought process your mind has developed across the years. I'd suggest just being open to suggestions and changes from your near and dear ones. Nothing like a joint decision to push away such blues

--------------------------------

To compare, on a personal front, I believe I'm a mix - I choose to be pragmatic when needed - for example I didn't see a need of owning a sedan in Mumbai city and I went ahead and sold a 8 year old well maintained car. The general consensus on and off the forum from my friends was it wasn't a good decision and I eventually will get back to a 4 wheeler - it's been nearly 2 years and I'm still happy with my bike(s).

But on the other hand, I choose to splurge when the need arises. I sincerely believe in the value of experiences. My budget for travel remains unlimited but with certain caveats - if there are good hostels in the destination, I'd go for that than a 3 to 5 star hotel.

Not all around me agreed with this view initially. But now a part of my family has come to terms with this approach, a few haven't. And that's fine.

[Shreyas_H]

This is a classic dilemma and how you use your money (or save it) will depend a lot on your upbringing, family and personal experiences in life.

I believe as long as it's not exorbitant, it is fine to splurge a little on your passions. I feel that a financial adviser or a 3rd person to look at your financial situation can help - sometimes we overthink and over-analyze our own finances. Talk to an expert - list down your assets, liabilities, potential expenses, risk appetite, future aspirations and then take a call on how much you plan to spend. An independent expert who does not have a personal connection with you can often offer unbiased opinions on this!

Coming to car purchases, I personally feel if you hold on to cars for long, it's okay to spend 20 lacs instead of 15. Over a 7-8 year period the difference won't be as much and you will be happier with a better car. Pre-owned is a great route to go as well.

It's the same logic - Always plan for the future, but you should not worry so much about the future that you forget to enjoy the present.

Quoting Andy Bernard from "The Office" -
"I wish there was a way to know you were in the good old days before you actually left them."

[dragonfire]

The Indian way of living is to save up for the future and end up not using them. We first save and then spend whatever is left. As a person who grew up in the 70s and 80s when unemployment was high and standard of living was low, I can't find fault with them.

Given that India is still a volatile place, and things could go south at a spark, it is good to have a balanced approach to spending.

Personally am a spendthrift when it comes to automobiles and gadgets, and I almost never let a good deal go by without jumping at it.

Money does not bring happiness but it can buy substitutes to happiness. So make enough money and spend it.

[giri1.8]

Happiness is somewhere between "Do what makes you happy" and "Be happy with what you have". So right balance seems to be the answer

When I desperately want something, I just wait for few more months before making a decision to purchase, surprisingly 95% of my cravings go away in a month or so.

[Jeroen]

Whereas I believe it is good to have ambitions and plans for the future I do believe it is equally important to live in the present.

As the old Roger Whitaker song goes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A0ZgIzICBY

Everybody talks about a new world in the morning
New world in the morning so they say
Now, I, myself don't talk about a new world in the morning
New world in the morning, that's today
And I can feel a new tomorrow comin' on
And I don't know why I have to make a song
Now everybody talks about a new world in the morning
New world in the morning takes so long
I met a man who had a dream he'd had since he was twenty
I met that man when he was eighty-one He said too many

Folks just stand and wait until the mornin',
Don't they know tomorrow never comes
And he would feel a new tomorrow coming on
And when he'd smile his eyes would twinkle up in thought
Now, everybody talks about a new world in the morning
New world in the morning takes so long
And I can feel a new tomorrow coming on
And I don't know why I have to make a song
Now, everybody talks about a new world in the morning
New world in the morning takes so long

Don’t be like that man who had a dream from at twenty and was still dreaming about it at 85.

new morning might never come.

Both my dad and my father in law were top in their respective profession. Worked at least 6 days a week, with virtually no holidays. The both had all these idea about what they were going to do when the retired. The both died, for different reasons, at 63, long before retirement. They had all the money in the world, they could have done almost anything they liked. But they kept focussing on doing it in the future, and kept being busy in the present with only work.

Both my wife and I are like this. Yes, we do think about the future, we plan for it, financially. But we try to do as much as we can today, every day. It is not just about buying stuff. It is about doing things, being involved in matters that you enjoy or find important or relative. Whether that is photography, barreling across the ocean in a dinghy protecting whales, or going for a hike. It does not matter.

But I do believe there is more to life than work, save and plan for the future. Mind you, the very fact that we are having this discussion puts us in a very favourable, comfortable position of course. Plenty of people in the world who struggle to make ends meet on day by day basis.

To some of the points made by other members; car ownership and car enjoyment comes in many different shapes and formats.

I think you should not look for squeezing value out of what you have, but look more for true enjoyment and content. I have been looking at cars every single day of my life and I will probably do so till the day I do. But I get great enjoyment out of the cars I own as well.

You seems to be doing quite well otherwise. Sometime a bit of reflection on what you have and have accomplished is a good thing too. It doesn’t always need to be more or better.

Jeroen

[slayer23]

Really liked Jeroen's post. "Mind you, the very fact that we are having this discussion puts us in a very favourable, comfortable position of course. Plenty of people in the world who struggle to make ends meet on day by day basis." - Really happy to be in such a position.


For the longest, I have had this worry in my mind. Should I really buy ABC or is XYZ worth it? The problem I realised over time was with this thinking I won't really do/experience anything beyond what I have already done/experienced in my life.

As most have mentioned it is a balance and this changes from person to person. On my personal front, I have prioritized a few things as must-have and others as good to have. So on these must-haves, I am happy spending a little more. The good to have, well they can wait.

That said mind is a funny thing and always tries to switch back to old ways of thinking. So its a journey and I think I have established some kind of balance.

[Mik]

Minimalism doesn't mean that you have to be stingy with everything. The philosophy is more inclined towards enjoying the concept of 'less is more'. In the same breath, leading Minimalist influencers have always said that one should not be afraid to maximise spending on things they truly value.

That being said, I am a bit like you too. Brought up in a household where each and every penny was to be respected and any unnecessary spending (read toys and chocolates) juxtaposed against that kid on the street who wasn't getting any.

'Value For Money' has always been the Mantra in my life. However, when it comes to recent automotive acquisitions - I am getting more and more radical. So yes, I did buy the inline 4 two years back even though I didn't need it at all!

Go indulge once in a while. You deserve it.

[wilful]

Yup! I guess quite a few of us can identify with your thoughts on the subj'.

I go through the same set of emotions when buying something expensive - and especially something for the self. It's also a lifetime of habit (of thrift) that probably makes one do so.

In the end it's all about balance - the right things/amount to spend/indulge and the right portion of income to save. Finding that balance though is, quite often, tough.

[arindambasu13]

Though not directly related to the topic being discussed, another pertinent lesson that I learnt in recent times is "buy once, cry once, but buy the best that you can afford". In other words, I now buy the best that I can afford of the product that I am seeking to purchase, rather than being penny wise and pound foolish in buying cheaper alternatives and then having to replace it much sooner than I would have, had I picked up a high quality alternative.

A good everyday example is shoes. Till recently I used to fall into the trap of purchasing 1000-2000 rupee low quality leather shoes which used to invariably disintegrate in a year or two of hard wear. However, I have now migrated to relatively more expensive but infinitely more higher quality/durable shoes. These will not only last me much longer, but develop a lovely weathered look (patina) as years go by. Also, are much more easier to resole and keep using than the cheaper alternatives at much lower price points. Yes, when first purchasing them , they are a significant financial outlay which might raise eyebrows (including mine), but the cost -per -wear invariably turns out much lower in the long run. Not to mention, that you get to enjoy the benefits of a high quality item over a loner period of time.

Similarly, I would prefer to wait, collect more cash and buy a top end model of the car rather than a lower model and wish I had those useful top end features.

Of course it is important to have savings, but at the same time, enjoy the smaller luxuries which you can comfortably afford - without going overboard. The golden mean is never easy to reach, but one can try.