[chatto63]

Folks, I was just asking why are Indian SUV manufacturers not prioritizing the launch of 4X4 SUVs a tad more luxury oriented than Thar - the Hyundai Creta, Kia Seltos sort of a niche. Does anyone else have this question in his / her mind? I will be keen to hear.

[justwheels]

Originally Posted by chatto63

Folks , was just asking why are Indian SUV manufacturers also not prioritizing launch of 4*4 SUV's , a tad more luxury oriented than Thar , the Hyundai Creta , Kia seltos sort of a niche. Does anyone else have this question in their mind , will be keen to hear

Guess the answer to this question has often been conveyed by the consumer himself in India. Check how many Safaris and XUVs were sold in their 4x4 avatar vs the 4x2 version. How many buy the compass trail hawk version vs the 4x2 version. The numbers will tell the tale clearly and manufacturers won't put an iota of money for something that won't sell.

I don't think offroading in India has picked up to a point where an average consumer needs 4x4. We don't even have an overlanding culture that might warrant use of a 4x4 sitting in luxury. The hard core offroaders need modifiable vehicles (read Thar or Gypsy).

So I don't really see any reason why manufacturers will put in effort to launch one. Well would I want it, ofcourse yes but I will have to wait for eternity or earn enough to afford a Wrangler in India. Till then I am happy with Thar.

[Raghu M]

Simply put - demand for such vehicles. They are not great family cars and very few in India are off road enthusiasts. Give me a luxury car and an off roader at half the price of a luxury car, I will pick the luxury car.

[Sanidhya mukund]

One simple reason I can think of is that a 4x4 is not really a necessity anymore. When my grandfather had started his medical practice in the 1950s, he often had to go to nearby villages to attend to serious patients who needed immediate help and couldn’t come to the city. For this, he had purchased a used 1940s Plymouth. Back in those days, roads were non-existent, there was tremendous amount of slush and mud in rural areas as a result of which, his Plymouth always used to get stuck. A 4x4 was a must. As a solution, he sold the Plymouth and bought one of the earliest Mahindra-Willys jeeps. Soon, quite a lot of people in those areas became Jeep owners.

As our roads improved, 4x4 no longer remained a necessity. People soon realised that they no longer have to put up with bumpy leaf springs of an archaic Jeep. The mass market now looked for sleek cars, and people happily bought Heralds, Padminis and Gazels.

Coming back to the present, the market for a 4x4 is very tiny. Today, the major demand comes from the armed forces, the police and maybe a few off-road enthusiasts who like to participate in events or go on fun expeditions. Very rarely do you come across somebody who absolutely NEEDS to have 4x4.
The other category of buyers are those who buy this type of vehicle not because they need a rufty tufty vehicle, but because they love the way it looks. If I were to buy a Thar today, it would be only for the styling and retro looks.
Thus as you can see, 4x4s are no longer a mass market thing. They are niche products with a minuscule market, and hence manufacturers don’t bother with them. The Thar is a one off example, it sells because it is a true “Jeep”.
If Maruti launches the Jimmy here, that also might sell because of the brand recall of the Gypsy. But if for example, Hyundai comes up with a boxy 4x4/ off-roader, I don’t think many people will buy one. No mass market player will bother with something that doesn’t get their cash registers ringing.

Another thing is, most cars today are monocoque. I guess it would be a daunting task to incorporate 4x4 into the development of a mass market crossover, and would require tremendous investments. Suppose if Kia were to launch a 4x4 Seltos, the Monocoque would require a significant amount of modifications to accommodate the 4x4 hardware. Even if they manage to do this, the market is not likely to buy the 4x4 in large quantities, thus making the investments redundant.

We can just keep dreaming about 4x4 crossovers, and maybe satisfy ourselves with a few renders:










Note: None of the pictures are my creations. Found them on Google images. Credit to the creator.

[museycal]

Incidentally, many crossovers on sale in India today have AWD/4x4 variants in international markets. Cars like:
- Kia Seltos,
- Hyundai Creta (ix25),
- Suzuki S-Cross,
- Ssangyong Tivoli (donor car for Mahindra XUV3OO) etc. are AWD capable.

I am not sure of this, but it seems that the composition of AWD variants in total sales volumes of these cars may be many times more in markets like EU, Oceania, North America etc. as compared to India. There maybe factors like lifestyle, requirements etc. at play.

As a result, the manufacturers in India aren't driven to launch slow selling and expensive AWD/4x4 variants where the primary driving factors for success of crossovers are aspirations, comfort, features, GC etc.

[SaiSW]

Because they're not a necessity for the mass market, to be honest. I'm pretty sure a lot of people believe them to be a lifestyle item and a second car, so I can't think of too many people who will buy a thar as their primary car, and I don't think their sensible sides will allow them to buy it even if they want one

I am part of the above mentioned category who see it as a lifestyle second car type vehicle. Absolutely no chance I'm buying it as a primary car and honestly, and as far as I am concerned, I don't see the point of me spending over 1.5 million rupees for a second car with average road manners and comfort when my usage does not include me taking my car to any sort of rock trails.

I'd be a bit more understanding if the road manners and overall comfort was a bit better.

[jkrishnakj]

Beyond some of the valid thoughts that we read here, one other thing is also about the appetite for the average car owner in India to learn stuff about 4X4.

It can get a bit complex, isn’t it? With all the tech terms like differential and approach, articulation etc etc .. making people wonder as to why bother the head with all this, let me just drive on our congested roads and occupy space in the road.

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by museycal

Incidentally, many crossovers on sale in India today have AWD/4x4 variants in international markets. Cars like:
- Kia Seltos,
- Hyundai Creta (ix25),
- Suzuki S-Cross,
- Ssangyong Tivoli (donor car for Mahindra XUV3OO) etc. are AWD capable.

I am not sure of this, but it seems that the composition of AWD variants in total sales volumes of these cars may be many times more in markets like EU, Oceania, North America etc. as compared to India. There maybe factors like lifestyle, requirements etc. at play.

As a result, the manufacturers in India aren't driven to launch slow selling and expensive AWD/4x4 variants where the primary driving factors for success of crossovers are aspirations, comfort, features, GC etc.

The fundamental reason is safety. US and EU have routinely dangerous driving conditions with snow sleet and ice on the roads where AWD is useful. Recently there was the incident of slippery black-ice in Texas and a mass pile-up and crashes of multiple trucks on passengers cars - the video is online. Texas not typically being snow-bound does not have a law mandating winter tires and the overnight rains with freaky weather cold conditions resulted in what is commonly known as black-ice. India does not have similar conditions except maybe in Northern parts of Himachal etc.

[locusjag]

If you're going to drive 6-7 months of the year on ice and snow, you need AWD and traction control and electronic wizardry to keep you on the road. I enjoyed the benefit of this when in the Northeastern US in a AWD SUV.

If you're spending time on bogged roads (e.g., the Australian outback in the monsoons), on farms (if you're a rancher in the Mid Western US) or in India's Himalayas/Garhwal Himalayas, you need a 4*4 in my opinion.

For most other use cases, AWD or 4*4 is a want (versus a need). We have okayish weather conditions and a largely flat terrain in most of India, and so we are okay with 2WD.

If I buy a 4*4, living in South India in Chennai, my transfer case and other mechanisms will rust from disuse, to put it simply. Just to have to put it to use, I'll need to head to The Farm and do offroading 4 times a year under the watchful eyes of Arka

[dhanushs]

A 4x4 in most countries is mainly used for expedition and India (largely) doesn't have an expedition culture, and might not also have very soon due to lack of basic infrastructure and law and order in remote places.

IMO, going to Leh, Ladakh through paved roads ain't expedition. Another use for a 4x4 is as a workhorse and there is the good old Mahindra for that. Indian average per capita needs to come up a little bit more to make the Isuzu V-Cross likes as a workhorse.

That said, a high ground clearance FWD cross-over will take you to 99% of the places. So, why spend the extra? I know a handful of old Thar owners who haven't till date engaged the 4x4 lever. Now with the new Thar penetrating to more Indians that number is only going to increase.

Originally Posted by chatto63

..., a tad more luxury oriented than Thar ...

Call me old school, but, I'd like to be in control of each and every aspect of my 4x4. Be it lockers, crawl, throttle, brakes or anything.. Newer luxury 4x4's rob you of that purist fun.

[SmartCat]

2 things:

- Starting price for a car is around Rs. 5L, while starting price for Thar is Rs. 15L. So by no stretch of imagination can Thar be called 'affordable'.
- Do other countries have capable and affordable 4x4s?

[mav3r1ckblu3]

"Affordable" is a very relative term. What may be affordable to you may be luxury for most. We don't have an off-roading culture that the various automakers can cater to. It's still an expensive and niche "hobby", and with the fuel prices going north, is out of reach of many. A Thar for example, would never be a first car of someone who has a family, although it could be his/her second or subsequent vehicle, that too depending upon the social strata he/she belongs to. For the majority, travelling from point A to B, either alone or with family, would not require a 4X4 unless they're living in extreme environmental conditions or regions. Tata Safari, XUV 500, Renault Duster AWD, were all very capable "affordable" off-roaders, but the manufacturers had to pull the plug because these were not selling in the numbers they were expecting it to sell for.

[TrackDay]

There are multiple reasons. I guess the main one is fuel efficiency. 4x4s are gas guzzlers and they drink so much fuel. In India fuel is still an expensive commodity for many and the last thing they want is an 'affordable 4x4' that is low on mileage. Also they are seen as a distinct kind of vehicle class in India, while in the West they are a part of the culture. Another good reason could be the parking constraints in our Society.

Besides off-roading we are also low on outdoor hobbies or lifestyle oriented with camping.

Other than a few in our population, I am sure not much own horses or do weekend activities such as boating or jet skiing. Also in the West, with Weekend breaks from school by the lake & spring break parties, you better have a 4x4 to haul the party

Another good reason could be the general height and weight of folks such as in America. They are less likely to fit in a hatchback.

The reason the Thar exists is because of Mahindra's history and association with proper Jeep vehicles. They have the R&D and expertise in that area. It might be way too expensive for others to come up with a vehicle like Thar from scratch.

[GTO]

It's also to do with manufacturer expertise. Body-on-frame 4x4s come naturally to Mahindra, but they don't to say someone like Hyundai. Such offroaders with oldschool tech under the skin are in Mahindra's DNA.

And as rightly said, the demand has traditionally been limited for such 4x4s. The 2nd-gen Thar's success has got everyone's attention for sure and no one - not even Mahindra - expected these booking volumes. They actually had to increase production! But I think it's a one off because the Thar currently enjoys almost zero direct competition and has copycat looks (not everyone can pull this off or will want to). It'll be a tough act to follow for anyone else.

If you're looking at options, the new Force Gurkha is coming soon, as is the Jimny.

[Ragavsr]

There are affordable 4x4s like the Mahindra Imperio 4WD, Bolero Camper 4WD, Tata Xenon Yodha 4WD. The problem is they are not allowed to be registered under white boards - private registration instead of commercial registration with yellow boards.

This is downright stupid - most of the small trucks are LMVs and can be driven with a commercial LMV licence. It's just cheap useless bureaucracy that they can't be registered as white boards. Some places like J&K ,Laddakh do , I have seen Imperio 4WDs with white boards there.