[kovilkalai]

Originally Posted by octane_100

These Babus don't need anything more than a Bolero to fulfill their official duties. Expensive vehicles for official usage is nothing but one more form of "bribing"

I disagree. They do need a comfortable conveyance for their official travel.

However, there is a huge gap between a Bolero and a Carnival. A Mahindra Marazzo will do just fine. Or a batch of XUV500s (although the ride is not great) - they can even get the XUVs at a huge discount. If Tata Hexa were still around, that would be best.

[porsche_guy]

Originally Posted by dileepcm

While I totally understand your frustration on the state of roads being in poor shape and existence of bribes etc. I personally do not agree with generalisation on how they work and what sort of low-key facilities need to be provided. I have seen how difficult their (and other govt. officials including police, health officials, electricity/water departments etc.) jobs can get. I am from Kerala and those who have been watching news would know the floods we had couple of years ago and the stress around pandemic. Most of these officials have unimaginable work load and responsibilities to deal with on a daily basis.

My close friend and neighbour is a district collector's driver in Kerala. I know that there is a ton of travel involved (30 to 50k kms a year) in their jobs. They also end up working while being on the road or sometimes will need to spend nights in car while travelling from one part of the state to another part.

While I have no specific comment on whether Kira carnival is the right choice or not, there is no doubt that they deserve good cars (and roads of-course) to keep up and be healthy to be able to serve the community and people.

Yes they need good cars that match with their stature and requirements. That means they shouldn't have to do away with budget cars like an Alto or Swift. However, you can get a very comfortable and reliable car for a third of what the Carnival would've cost. An Ertiga or a Marazzo fulfill these conditions very well. The Carnival is essentially a Luxury car which is what most here have a problem with because, at the end of the day, they are public servants and such lavish and blingy luxuries especially in times such as these is a very unethical move.

I absolutely agree when we say the Bolero is too crude. Afterall they are very respected officers and deserve a certain level of comfort. But we should mark the difference between comfort and luxury and then look at the entire picture.

The officers are ofcourse free to buy and use any vehicle they desire and can buy in their personal capacity

[pradeep_mvpa]

A collector is an IAS officer, which is the highest level of administrative job an individual can get in India. So, saying "Bolero is enough" may not be right.

It is tax payer's money, but an IAS officer should be paid/treated well for the kind of job they are doing.

But, in my opinion, Carnival is not the right choice of vehicle primarily due the high cost and perceived high maintenance in future. Unlike political leaders, collectors don't need to carry many people in their vehicle. For half the cost, they could get a sedan which gives them the equal level of comfort.

[anjan_c2007]

In the IAS heirarchy Collector is of the rank of Dy Secretary to the Government of India, that is also designated as Director in many Central Ministries. There is a Joint Secretary rank above this (Divisional Commissioner of Revenue Divisions in states) and then Additional Secretary (Additional Secretaries are equivalent of Principal Secretary of a State Ministry/ Department). And the head of a Central Ministry is a Secretary. The Chief Secretary of a state government (only one post in a state usually) holds the rank equivalent to a Secretary in a Central Ministry.

Hence, an Additional Collector is of the rank of a Dy Director in the Central government.

In the Central government ministries, each Secretary and possibly Additional Secretaries are allocated a Maruti Ciaz as the official car. If there are old Ambassadors and Maruti SX 4's (earlier purchases by the Central government), then these are allocated as official cars to the officers holding the lower ranks in the heirarchy. And these days there are a lot of outsourcing from private taxi operators on a contract basis, who offer Maruti DZire, Honda Amaze, Hyundai XCent and Tata Indigo class (Base C-Class sedans) of yellow plate taxis for use by junior officers in Central Ministries.

Understand that Kia is a product produced in the neighbourhood (Anantpur dist), the blatant squandering of the poor taxpayers money on the luxury product is uncalled for. Having worked in remote parts of backward districts of Telangana state for seven years, I have seen poverty at its worst. Shame on such decisions.

[vigneshkumar31]

An IT company VP/ GM gets driven around in a BMW 7 series and a HR manager company leases a 3 series for driving from home to work? Isn't this is a point A to B commute best achieved by a Ciaz probably? We want to set up an aspirational value for the VP, and convey his stature to the lesser mortals. Agreed, it's a profit making organisation and they are free to give incentives to their executives. But if we were working for the same company, as stakeholders, do we raise our pitchforks in the company policies splurging money on such frivolous expenditure? Why don't we rattle the CEOs to cut spending on such luxuries and divert the funds to COVID fight as CSR?

No sir, we proudly say the VP worked his way up to deserve it and we even aspire to get there one day.
But what about India Inc.? We are all stakeholders in this nationwide organisation. Why do we so vehemently want to see IAS and equivalent Govt officers suffer with inferior (or if we are feeling overtly generous, we may let him have 'just enough') commutes?. Yes, the Kia carnival is a bit over the top, but the CM is the CEO of the State and he is free to incentivise his GMs the way he sees fit.

I want good, well qualified, well educated, cream of the society talent to take up Govt jobs, not motivated only by service mentality or (perceived) job security, but because it is as aspirational as a corporate career in terms of glam and glory.

As much as we love to witch hunt babus, the Indian bureaucracy undeniably runs this large country, regardless of, and despite, the status of Govt. The fact that it can be run better is another story altogether, a debate for another day.

Side note: I totally support the fight against the pandemic and wish that those in power direct sufficient and necessary resources in that direction. But, the popular idea that the pandemic scenario should by default, curtail all and any other expenditure, is somewhat myopic. It's not that this 12-15 crores are going to tilt the scales against the COVID fight singularly. This particular case might have other motives beyond just motivation of office bearers, but I want to use this opportunity to highlight that we need to attract the best talent back to Govt service if we want India to be the superpower it deserves to be.

I want the Govt jobs to become so aspirational and elusive that IITs and IIMs don't brain drain out and instead fight for top Govt jobs. I want us to be in a position to set dreamy targets to our kids of becoming collectors and civil servants rather than wish them somehow find a way to escape this un-salvagable nation like we do now.

Bullet proof bureacracy will change this nation faster than politicians can ever do.

Let them celebrate this one Carnival.

[Lowflyer23]

Originally Posted by Fuldagap

Sir with all due respect if there are honest armed forces senior personnel then there are honest babus too. Their travels and vehicles are also governed by central govt rules which have ample checks and balances in place to take care of spends. They are also liable to audits which are quite strong in their own sense. Mostly babus dont get similar fame and laurels as their counterparts in armed forces do.

With all due respect sir, I don't think the armed forces allow any officer of any rank to use official vehicle after his/her retirement while it's not the case with the retired bureaucrats. The Indian Army got Safari Stormes after repeated requests and applications which were time and again ignored by these very "honest" babus. Senior Army Officers except the chief were using gypsies with leaf spring rear suspensions and jugaad cut out rear doors with minimal legroom, the aftermarket air conditioners didn't work well too.

I completely agree that there are some honest babus but comparing the ratio to that of the armed forces would result in a day and night difference and I don't understand what fame and laurels you talk about. Even martyrs who sacrifice their lives for the country are given a small corner on some newspaper's 3rd or 4th page. Please don't discuss further about the laurels and fame because I am very much aware of the luxuries sanctioned for these babus that will enrage many of the people here who have no idea how lavishly these live.

[wildsdi5530]

We have to realize that costs have gone up.
There are about 150 collectors in Telangana, so an upfront cost of 60 Cr. That's a pittance. Even state tax on fuel for a day will be much more than that.
I'm just surprised that they are supporting local business rather than going for a V class.

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by Lowflyer23

Even martyrs who sacrifice their lives for the country are given a small corner on some newspaper's 3rd or 4th page. Please don't discuss further about the laurels and fame because I am very much aware of the luxuries sanctioned for these babus that will enrage many of the people here who have no idea how lavishly these live.

Yes. discussing further would be futile. There is much to say on this topic. However, being privy to information does come with its boundations to share on an open platform. Be it babus or armed forces personnel, I'm not only aware about there spends, corruption and lavish lifestyle, due to the nature of my earstwhile service, I'm also aware about how a very tiny percentage of them (babus or armed forces personnel, more specifically the army), which is dedicated and honest to its job, tags along with the same central govt rules and make examples for the society to see.

Having said that, a Kia Carnival or a Toyota Fortuner or any other similar
in that price range is bound to get emotions aroused among the general public but it serves the purpose fittingly for a babu in the field.

[vishnurp99]

IMHO, The IAS is a feudal/colonial vestige where greenhorns get bestowed with lots of power and responsibilities just because they passed an exam. Most poor folks will not be able to take 1-2 years of their working life to just prepare for an exam nor spend big bucks to go to coaching centres. None of the other major democracies have such an rusty iron frame but they work fine.

These kia carnivals are just symptomatic of this illness that plagues our country. Now these brown sahibs report to our ministers who themselves have the mindset of a administrator and not a civil servant.

In fact there has been studies which show that the Indian civil servants are the most pampered in the world. In most countries including China, the civil servants salaries are bench marked against per capita income of the country. India has the largest such differential where even the lowest grade entry level guy gets many times the per capita income.

Like I said, these kia carnivals for additional collectors are entirely in line with our system.

[v1p3r]

I do not grudge working people their required tools, and even their comforts. If they need a specific car that is comfortable to perform their job to the best of their ability, it should be provided to them, at the cheapest cost possible. If a Hexa or Harrier is cheaper and more comfortable, then that should be the official car.

However, if the person does not perform their job satisfactorily, will they then be sacked? This should be the norm - performance-driven incentives, and performance-linked employment. I don't know of any widespread information that shows that incompetent government officials ever get sacked.

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

An IT company VP/ GM gets driven around in a BMW 7 series and a HR manager company leases a 3 series for driving from home to work? Isn't this is a point A to B commute best achieved by a Ciaz probably? We want to set up an aspirational value for the VP, and convey his stature to the lesser mortals. Agreed, it's a profit making organisation and they are free to give incentives to their executives. But if we were working for the same company, as stakeholders, do we raise our pitchforks in the company policies splurging money on such frivolous expenditure? Why don't we rattle the CEOs to cut spending on such luxuries and divert the funds to COVID fight as CSR?

What an excellent question. The answer is this - if a private company does not make a profit, the person in charge gets fired. If a private company does not show growth quarter-on-quarter, and year-on-year, the person in charge gets fired. If a private company detects illegalities, the person in charge gets fired. Yes, there are errant private companies that get away with the above, but oh please good god, don't tell me that private enterprises are in any way comparable to the sloth that masquerades as bureaucracy in India. And stakeholders in a company, whether internal or shareholders, can hold the CEO accountable for not delivering. No such process exists in bureaucracy.

And no IT VP/GM gets a 7 series. You seem to have some very incorrect and pre-conceived notions.

Also, a lot of parents do want their children to become IAS/IPS officers, because then 'life set ho jayegi / your life is made'. You will have access to power, you can always make a lot of money if you want, and the chances of you ever being unemployed, for your fault or otherwise, are pretty close to zero.

[Abhi5868]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

An IT company VP/ GM gets driven around in a BMW 7 series and a HR manager company leases a 3 series for driving from home to work? Isn't this is a point A to B commute best achieved by a Ciaz probably? We want to set up an aspirational value for the VP, and convey his stature to the lesser mortals. Agreed, it's a profit making organisation and they are free to give incentives to their executives. But if we were working for the same company, as stakeholders, do we raise our pitchforks in the company policies splurging money on such frivolous expenditure? Why don't we rattle the CEOs to cut spending on such luxuries and divert the funds to COVID fight as CSR?

With all due respect sir, but this sounds so irrational that it's almost funny. First of all it's as difficult to get into a top position in a tech giant as it is for a similarly aged DM/Collector especially those below 35.

Next thing the spendings by a company do get questioned time to time at the stakeholders meeting. These VPs/officials don't enjoy the same sense of job security as those DMs.

And last but not the least talking about accountability, we all know what happened to the thappadbaaz DM of Chhatisgarh and Tripura. I'll just leave it at that.

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Also, a lot of parents do want their children to become IAS/IPS officers, because then 'life set ho jayegi / your life is made'. You will have access to power, you can always make a lot of money if you want, and the chances of you ever being unemployed, for your fault or otherwise, are pretty close to zero.

Aptly put.

Seeing from spectrum of an auto enthusiast I am dismayed on the choice of vehicle. I would have preferred a vehicle with higher ground clearance and option of 4x4 considering road infrastructure in rural areas. A Jeep compass fits the bill perfectly.

[Steer-safe]

You working hard getting a degree and then an IT/ management job. Great salaries for buying whatever you want. When a person invests considerable time and energy to clear upsc, joins it and serves country . What is the problem in giving them a good car for better efficiency and comfort. They are top brains of country as well.You can say about corruption but then we all are corrupt. Breaking signal, jumping line, garbage in public place and thousand other ways are corruption only.

They are working hard and running the country.

Coming to the car, I think Innova would have been far better choice. It is more SUV then lot of SUV's on indian road and supremely comfortable.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by Steer-safe

You working hard getting a degree and then an IT/ management job. Great salaries for buying whatever you want. When a person invests considerable time and energy to clear upsc, joins it and serves country . What is the problem in giving them a good car for better efficiency and comfort. They are top brains of country as well.

These legions of Generalists do get paid, don't they? Why can't they buy with their handsome earnings just like the rest of us?
For the so-called "official" duties that involve touring what's wrong with any sub 4m cross-over?

[SibiGeorge]

I would have recommended an electric vehicle (say an MG) at this price point.

Being an electric vehicle enthusiast, I would say this is a wasted opportunity. This decision wouldn't drain the govt. coffers in the long run. In fact, I would recommend that majority of all vehicle procurement should be from the EV category. This will promote different well-built EV models to come into the scene.

All these officials do have a dedicated driver to worry about the range/ distance to travel ..etc. It would also have promoted charging stations at almost all important govt. offices. Most of the travel by these officials are light (driver + officer+ luggage), hence better range.

Obviously, there are limitations in the charging infrastructure when they travel to remote areas. They can use an alternate car (their older ones, mostly Innovas)/lease one for long-distance travels where the battery range won't permit them to travel.