[TusharK]

Mr. Nitin Gadkari, the minister of road transport and highways, has announced new targets for ethanol production and EV sales to reduce pollution levels in the country.



The minister stated that flex-fuel vehicles would play a crucial role in decarbonising the transport sector. The government is aiming at an Rs. 2 lakh crore ethanol economy from its present size of Rs. 20,000 crore. The development of an extensive ethanol industry would mean new markets for the country's biomass and agriculture sector.

The use of bio-CNG and green hydrogen is also expected to reduce air pollution. The government aims to set up 10,000 CNG stations in the country.

Further, the government intends to achieve electric vehicle sales penetration of 30% for private cars, 70% for commercial vehicles, 40% for buses, and 80% for 2-wheelers and 3-wheelers by 2030.

Link to Team-BHP News

[anb]

Originally Posted by TusharK

The minister stated that flex-fuel vehicles would play a crucial role in decarbonising the transport sector. The government is aiming at an Rs. 2 lakh crore ethanol economy from its present size of Rs. 20,000 crore. The development of an extensive ethanol industry would mean new markets for the country's biomass and agriculture sector.

Is this a clear case of conflict of interest? Purti group will benefit massively from this decision and we all know that who own the Purti group.

[sandeepmdas]

40% of buses and 70 per cent of commercial vehicles?!!

While his vision of biofuels mixed with electricity is good, he must obtain backing from the Finance ministry; unless and until Ms. Sitaraman responds with suitable tax deductions and other sops, all these will remain a pipe dream of Mr. Gadkari. This is the bane of the Westminster model of governance. Finance is a 900-pound gorilla that can destroy the projects and policies of all other departments.

[nasir88]

Can someone shed light on whether these ethanol blending/flex fuel engine related mandates are likely to happen. And if so, does it make sense to defer new vehicle purchases (if one can wait) from a future proofing standpoint?

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

40% of buses and 70 per cent of commercial vehicles?!!

While his vision of biofuels mixed with electricity is good, he must obtain backing from the Finance ministry; unless and until Ms. Sitaraman responds with suitable tax deductions and other sops, all these will remain a pipe dream of Mr. Gadkari. This is the bane of the Westminster model of governance. Finance is a 900-pound gorilla that can destroy the projects and policies of all other departments.

The problem is our federated system of government where a lot of the financial drain is being done by state governments in the form of subsidies and freebies. Unless there is a radical change in this model of governance, there is precious little Fin Min can do about it. I guess it is also one of the reasons why state governments are reluctant to move to the GST model for fuel since their coffers are compensated through VAT for their provincial excesses.

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

The problem is our federated system of government where a lot of the financial drain is being done by state governments in the form of subsidies and freebies. s.

Let us not put blame entirely on states as Central Government is also doling out freebies from free LPG to free foodgrains.

The looming power crisis in India and abroad puts a big question mark on EV adoption.

Apart from this, adoption of ethanol as a fuel will cause food and water scarcity in future.

[Hayek]

Classic example of stupid policy, whether driven by vested interests or otherwise. Sugar cane cultivation is the bane of India - an insanely water intensive crop being grown in a water starved land, accompanied by a mafia of processing units. And now we want to turn more land and water over to this crop in order to burn, instead of relying on fossil fuels, and using land to either grow useful food crops or for afforestation. Tragically, Gadkari may get away with this.

[Nithesh_M]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Gadkari may get away with this.

He owns a bunch of sugar mills if I'm not mistaken? Not difficult to see why ethanol is being forced down manufacturers throats then.

What damage does a blend higher than 15% do to existing vehicles and who will cover the damages?

[catchjyoti]

The mixing of ethanol rule is ridiculous. The need of the hour is to reduce cultivation of such a water-intensive crop as sugarcane in Maharashtra. But Gadkari is doing exactly the opposite. And his company having interests in related industry will create justified doubts in people's minds.

[CARDEEP]

Water crisis in interiors of Maharashtra is to a great reduced, as the water trains are no longer functional for quite a few years. Previous State Govt did a lot of work in this direction & as per reports by certain Non-Governmental environmental agencies water table has risen.

Also (as others have pointed out) sugarcane farming is water intensive & it benefits most state politicians who own the sugar mills. But ethanol blending will ultimately benefit the motorist in terms of reduced pricing more than these sugar mills who may only get bit more profitable due to sale of molasses. Additionally jatropha can help supporting bio-diesel supply.

However, he also mentioned bio-CNG, which he is referring to bio-gas I believe & green hydrogen. For former, I believe he is referring to bio-gas which again can benefit rural economy the most. I believe bio-hydrogen is produced in similar fashion.

All these are incremental steps than can help support our fossil fuel demand. There's little support
on this from bureaucracy which is bigger drain (per head) to taxpayers than doling benefits to needy. There's no dearth of technology that can run on these modified fuel (s). However, Government policy especially from senior minister's mean seriousness & something coming sooner. In my opinion the implementation will be staggered like CNG in public transport. Also the manufacturers would need time to spruce up facilities for production in flex fuel vehicles. At least Government is giving them something to plan for somewhat longer term, till relevant technology is available for public use at reasonable prices.

Lastly, I'm not sure how this will impact the carbon & environmental/ emissions targets of our country, though I think it will be more plusses in this area too.

Coming to EVs that are in rage these days, I believe the environmentalists will have planned something in long term. The NGO sector across globe will advertise in future how lithium ion mining to throwing away used batteries is adversely impacting humanity & environment. Having been apart of NGO sector in past I'm aware of how petty & dirty their acts can be.

[nick.cs]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

But ethanol blending will ultimately benefit the motorist in terms of reduced pricing more than these sugar mills who may only get bit more profitable due to sale of molasses. Additionally jatropha can help supporting bio-diesel supply.

This will be the base case argument to push blending and the assumption being ministry will pass on the benefit to the customers, but i doubt is highly unlikely. They'll add additional cess - say for eg they'll increase cess on petrol to increase MSP of sugarcane.

More convinced of this as the govt seems to be in no hurry to provide relief to consumers considering the sky high prices of fuel currently.

[anjan_c2007]

Though ethanol is definitely advantageous and a logical requirement for blending with petrol to reduce pollution there is more than meets the eye in this blending exercise and the sudden raising of the limit to 20 % by 2025. It is a proven fact that 10% ethanol blended (N10) with petrol reduces CO2 in the emission by 20%. The United Kingdom has moved ahead with 10 % blending of ethanol in petrol since 01.09.2021. The N10 fuel is available in the U.K. since more than a month, but they have also kept the N5 fuel option available in fuel dispensing outlets for those with older technology vehicles. Their octane rating for normal petrol is 95 %, while in India we lag behind with 91% octane rating for standard petrol. The higher octane rated petrol is available as an option. Higher octane rated petrol (more than 91) with ethanol blending could help reduce damage to the older engines. The government does not conduct exercises to raise the octane rating for petrol as it involves huge capital investments. But the gullible public is burndened with such ridiculous blended petrol that is a short cut for the government in its exercise to reduce vehicular pollution. Ethanol blending also affects engine efficiency to an extent.

The present day petrol engines are compliant with 10 % ethanol blending and no more for India. Whereas, ethanol blending of even 10 % is proven to be retrograde for older engines including the recent models and very detrimental for older vintages and classics. The gaskets, metal, plastics and the rubber parts in the fuel supply line are prone to hardening and quicker wear. Gasket failures for the engine and for the carburettor are known facts, whereas the rubber and plastic fuel supply lines/ filters get hardened and brittle ultimately.

The powers that be have lots of fuel research related laboratories under their jurisdiction to conduct project studies and submit reports of the advantages and disadvantages of such blending. The Minister is deciding everything and pronouncing policies critical for the public without any back-up studies, based on his own and his bureaucrat clapper-boy's recommendations. We do not hear from the Petroleum Minister or the Industries Minister under whose jurisdiction such decisions also fall, but hear much major policy pronouncements only from the Transport Minister.

My post # 16 in the thread below:-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...light=ethanol& (Impact of 20% ethanol petrol on current petrol engines)

Another purely vested interest generated unscientific shocker from the Transport and Highways Ministry here with the E20 deadline of 2025. Lately, there have been only a few logical decisions by this Ministry whereas most of these are trash, hare brained decisions mostly meant to suit some handful of entities. Moreover, the Petroleum Ministry is maintaining a studied silence on the issue. The Central government has a host of fuel research laboratories under its control of whom none are heard of being assigned the task to conduct a dedicated research on such a major policy decision.

More opaque is the fact that ethanol though priced at around Rs 60 a litre may be only attracting GST and not separate Central, State and local body cesses like petrol and diesel. Hence, despite the present 10% blending, there is no price transparency by the Petroleum Ministry regarding any price reduction of petrol in the recent past, due to such a blending.

There is also a thread on the Vintage and Classics section on this topic:-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vinta...ars-bikes.html (Warning! E10 ethanol-blended petrol can be damaging for older cars & bikes)

A quote from Autocar UK August 2021

"Certainly, proper classics that are 40 years old or more will all have problems, but so will modern classics from the 1990s, a lot of cool motorbikes, stupid mopeds and most likely petrol lawnmowers. It couldn’t be easier to check whether you need to worry, of course (simply visit gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol), but what are the main downsides for owners of older cars? The higher bioethanol content in E10 is corrosive to rubber parts, gaskets, seals, metals and plastics, which causes engine damage, so it could dislodge deposits in older engines and fuel systems, causing blockages. It should only be used with expert advice, which means pretty much never".

[Axe77]

On the brink of unprecedented coal shortage and we want to run the country on EVs. Why wouldn’t they instead also encourage hybrids. Consumes less petrol and doesn’t depend on electricity.

The less said for dooming the country with excessive sugar production the better. Hayek already expressed the issues with this in his post above. All politicians have a vested interest in this and we all know what the true motivations are. We can only watch helplessly as we get sold out!

No idea how one should factor buying an E10 compliant petrol car in the coming years with the sudden haphazard migration to E20 fuel. We are well and truly and properly a banana republic!!

[sunnsood]

While at one hand, there are discussions happening on turning India into Carbon neutral, here we have a policy which is all over the place.

If anyone is CEO of a car manufacturer, how can he determine where to invest with this stupid electric (including fuel cell), flex fuel, bio cng and green hydrogen?

Being a policy maker, they have all the resources to determine where we are and where we want to go especially with climate change putting all lives in danger.

[low_rider]

Originally Posted by Hayek

. Sugar cane cultivation is the bane of India - an insanely water intensive crop being grown in a water starved land, accompanied by a mafia of processing units. And now we want to turn more land and water over to this crop in order to burn, instead of relying on fossil fuels, and using land to either grow useful food crops or for afforestation.

Ethanol production is now allowed from Rice, Maize and other rotten foodgrains. Food Corp of India is currently holding excess foodgrain stock, some of which will be diverted to Ethanol production.