[fhdowntheline]

For all the hype, research and regulation on tailpipe emissions from automobiles, here is a intriguing and surprising discovery. Tyres are responsible for more pollution than the tailpipe! I guess it puts things in perspective and it would be interesting how regulatory bodies will respond to this.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...e_iOSApp_Other

[achyutaghosh]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Tyres are responsible for more pollution than the tailpipe! I guess it puts things in perspective and it would be interesting how regulatory bodies will respond to this.

Whoa! This is news to me! Am sure more detailed research will be carried out and tyre makers will soon be requested to share their emission statistics so that buyers can take informed decisions.

As far as regulatory bodies go, before above research comes out, NGT will definitely pass on another draconian act on this- somewhat like no car will be allowed to ply in NCR with tires beyond 5 years old etc

The fun part would be how to enforce this?

[Dry Ice]

Interesting study for sure, thanks for sharing. But, as they say, it is still early days for it to become a basis of any kind of regulation.

Highlighting some of the key points from the linked article.

The requirement for better filters has meant particle emissions from tailpipes in developed countries are now much lower in new cars, with those in Europe far below the legal limit. However, the increasing weight of cars means more particles are being thrown off by tyres as they wear on the road.

The method of how this study was conducted, and the source of the data.

The tests of tyre wear were done on 14 different brands using a Mercedes C-Class driven normally on the road, with some tested over their full lifetime. High-precision scales measured the weight lost by the tyres and a sampling system that collects particles behind the tyres while driving assessed the mass, number and size of particles, down to 6nm. The real-world exhaust emissions were measured across four petrol SUVs, the most popular new cars today, using models from 2019 and 2020.

This means that while the vast majority of the particles by number are small enough to become airborne and contribute to air pollution, these represent only 11% of the particles by weight.

They also touch upon the fact that higher weight causes more such particles to be thrown up in the environment. So heavier vehicles would fare worse than smaller ones.

[batish]

Originally Posted by achyutaghosh

As far as regulatory bodies go, before above research comes out, NGT will definitely pass on another draconian act on this- somewhat like no car will be allowed to ply in NCR with tires beyond 5 years old etc

The fun part would be how to enforce this?

Oh! It's easy man. High Security stickers would be stuck on tyres which cannot be removed whatsoever. If they fade the owner is responsible. Did I mention they would be colour coded? Orange for diesels since they would pollute a lot more than its counterparts and Blue for Petrol.

So whenever you go to fuel bunk for refilling, the pump would only dispense after scanning the barcode on the sticker. If the tyres have been past their legal age, you would not get any fuel.

Even if you somehow manage to pilfer fuel then second layer of security would check you which are - The Toll Plazas. Scanners would be installed at foot level - just beneath the toll operator's window. If they find your tyres are past their life, you know what the drill is.

[GForceEnjoyer]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

For all the hype, research and regulation on tailpipe emissions from automobiles, here is a intriguing and surprising discovery. Tyres are responsible for more pollution than the tailpipe! I guess it puts things in perspective and it would be interesting how regulatory bodies will respond to this.

This is something I'd never thought of; I was under the impression that the significant emissions occurred during production and if they were improperly disposed.

Originally Posted by batish

Oh! It's easy man. High Security stickers would be stuck on tyres which cannot be removed whatsoever. If they fade the owner is responsible. Did I mention they would be colour coded? Orange for diesels since they would pollute a lot more than its counterparts and Blue for Petrol.

I seriously wouldn't be surprised if you gave them some very real ideas. Reminds me of when The Onion's articles get more or less copy pasted by reputed news sites covering actual events.

[SKC-auto]

This is another FUD study against EVs, funded by the oil money. This study is not peer reviewed, not conducted by any researcher, did not involve any EVs for the study, employed obscure methods to arrive at pre-determined result.

Tyres on EVs last longer than 50K kms, and the low rolling resistance tyres in most EVs last longer than ICE cars, which is ignored by the so called study.

[Joelinf]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

and it would be interesting how regulatory bodies will respond to this.

Soon they will come up with black tax for tyres beyond 5 years.

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

This is another FUD study against EVs, funded by the oil money. This study is not peer reviewed, not conducted by any researcher, did not involve any EVs for the study, employed obscure methods to arrive at pre-determined result.

Tyres on EVs last longer than 50K kms, and the low rolling resistance tyres in most EVs last longer than ICE cars, which is ignored by the so called study.

The related EU report does not appear to be from a pro-oil lobby, given that it indicates that plastics and tyre wear are the primary sources of marine pollution. These products being made out primarily out of petroleoum.
https://ec.europa.eu/environment/mar...rt_v5_full.pdf







Notice that they even have revisited some of the estimation based on newer data(some are widely off mark).


It suggests the following measures.

• Measure 1 – The Development of a Standard Measure of Tyre Tread Abrasion Rate
• Measure 2 - Include Tyre Tread Abrasion Rates on the Tyre Label
• Measure 3 - Using the Type Approval Regulation to restrict the worst performing tyres (in respect of tyre tread abrasion) from the market

The original study on brake & tyre emissions has multiple citations as well, I do not have any further insight on this(read only the abstract)
https://www.semanticscholar.org/pape...sort=relevance


The whole study is focused on particulate emissions, and does not factor in CO2 and other noxious emissions (which over time, with greener fuels, will be the biggest plus point for EVs).

I could not understand on how you were able to conclude that this is against EVs, can you please share the reasons why you think this is rigged?

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

This is another FUD study against EVs, funded by the oil money.

I didn't get the basis for your backlash at the article. Please do explain.

As far as I could tell, the article mentions BEVs in passing and it seems to treat harmful substances used in tyre manufacturing as the principal threat to our world. I don't see an anti-EV angle here.

On the whole - I feel jealous that someone else beat me to creating this thread. I've myself been meaning to bring this topic up; we all see tyres getting worn out on all manner of vehicles...just where do the work out rubber particles end up? In our food chain? In all faunas' food chains? Wonder what unknown havoc has been wrought for so long by tyres...

[AJITHAAA]

It is also an industry shrouded in secrecy regarding worst labor practices and deforestation, especially in the south east Asia.

https://youtu.be/-fusUxEPwsw

[saisree]

Very interesting study and never thought these Tyres has this angle in pollution. We always thought about the problems it causes when disposed.

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

They also touch upon the fact that higher weight causes more such particles to be thrown up in the environment. So heavier vehicles would fare worse than smaller ones.

Off topic and no offence- Now Maruti will use this to their credit for having tinny cars and how they are contributing to less pollution, long lasting tyres and more mileage.

[thanixravindran]

I believe the emissions are high due to the synthetic rubber usage (Nylon threads?) to get increased life from Natural rubber. If my school chemistry knowledge is still correct, Nylon itself is made from Crude oil. We normally do not think about the numerous by products of Crude as compared to visible fuels but they have become indispensable in our day to day life. Only way is to reduce the impact is to recycle and reuse effectively.

[gary]

Tire tech needs a revolution. Almost everything on an automobile has undergone a generational improvement in the last few decades. The tire tech remains pretty much the same, with few improvements may be. We need complete disruption in this space.
And the rubber industry is a cesspit, particularly in SE asia as one of the videos in this thread earlier showed.

[vinya_jag]

I am sure, this won’t be considered for any immediate law in India, where we are spending 2 liters of not so high quality fuel, for a mere 10 Kms of office travel, mostly driving in the first few gears, often stationary just relaxing in the AC, and occasionally accelerating on the edge of the road, spewing mud left behind by a leaking tractor that was carrying construction debris, and in all this, wouldn’t have lost 0.1 grams of our tyre, rather it would have gained a little in terms of tar, and small stones stuck onto them

In my mind, it simply doesn’t add up, tyres causing more pollution

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by whitewing

The whole study is focused on particulate emissions, and does not factor in CO2 and other noxious emissions (which over time, with greener fuels, will be the biggest plus point for EVs).

I could not understand on how you were able to conclude that this is against EVs, can you please share the reasons why you think this is rigged?

The report does not add anything new except extraordinary claims and I support any regulation on tyre wear or chemicals used in manufacturing.

Yes, the CO2 and other noxious emissions are not factored, now for a normal person the study is a click bait, the "particle" is somewhere lost, all that left is EVs are heavy and tyre wear emissions are more than tail pipe emissions, raises a question whether this transition to EVs is necessary. Already there is a catchy sentence which is not nearly true "15 ships pollute more than the entire car fleet".

Not all EVs are +500kg then their ICE counterparts, since tyres on EVs last for same kms as on ICE cars, the wear is the same, how could the study almost double tyre wear for EVs.

For the study they collected tyre particles from the rear of a mercedes, and test conducted on public roads, how do they know it's only tyre particles from the test car and not disturbed particles from thousands of cars which travelled before. That's the reason a peer reviewed studies are considered.

2 years prior similar study by Emissions Analytics showed tyre particles are 1000 times worse, now they are saying 1800 times worse, how can one trust this study, may be after 2 years they will say 4000 times worse.

“Tailpipes are now so clean for pollutants that, if you were starting out afresh, you wouldn’t even bother regulating them” - pure FUD nonsense, forget all other emissions.

Please read below:

1/12 The @guardian has an unfortunate story on tire wear.
theguardian.com/environment/20…

a thread.

2/ I have been working on tailpipe emissions measurements for many years, so let me put this into perspective.

Particles, unlike gases, can be mesaured in many different ways. For gases you just measure concentration (e.g. 412 ppm CO2), because all CO2 molecules are identical.
3/ But particles are not all identical. They have different sizes, different shapes, different chemical compositions - so some particles behave very differently than others. Also regarding toxicity for humans.
4/ "Very large" particles, bigger than about 10 micrometers, won't be inhaled deeply in our body, so they don't do much harm. They are basically cleared out the next time you wipe your nose. That's why we have a PM10 limit value, limiting the mass of particles < 10 micrometers.
5/ But, PM10 has a problem when it comes to ultrafine particles (UFP) like the carcinogenic soot emitted from Diesel vehicles (and other combustion processes). One 10 micron particle weighs the same as *1 million* 100nm particles.
6/ The smaller the particle is, the longer it will remain suspended in the air. That single 10 micron particle will be removed much faster than the 1 million 100 nanometer particles. So from a human health perspective, you are less likely to encounter that 10 micron particle.
7/ Those 100 nanometer particles get to the deepest parts of our lungs, and easily enter the bloodstream - and end up in all parts of our bodies. That's why people usually count ultrafine particles instead of weighing them, to take their higher toxicity per mass into account.
8/That's where the @guardian article goes wrong. By far most of the tire wear particles are very large, so irrelevant for human health - we don't inhale them. That's not to say they are no problem, but linking them to "air pollution causes millions of deaths per year" is wrong.
9/ Tire wear particles can be in the ultrafine size range, and thus in a similar category as tailpipe exhaust or brake wear particles. Such particles are however not emitted due to mechanical wear, but when the tire gets hot, e.g. due to spinning/slip
10/ But those hot-tire-ultrafine particles are just a tiny fraction of the tire wear particles (on mass basis). This tiny fraction is the one that concerns air pollution and human health, and they are certainly not 2000x more than tailpipe emissions, probably much less instead
11/ Microplastics from tire wear is a real issue. But it's much more an issue for the environment in general, than for air pollution and human health. Apparently, there is a lack of good studies.
dora.lib4ri.ch/empa/islandora…
12/ If you want to know more about particle generation from tires, see for example:

https://twitter.com/naneosCEO/status...55IiZ72vw&s=19

https://youtu.be/aar8njoGgNY

Originally Posted by vinya_jag

In my mind, it simply doesn’t add up, tyres causing more pollution

Tyres causing more particulates by weight, not overall pollution, not to say that you should not worry.