[Ram]

Originally Posted by theMAG

All this is proof towards self-discipline is the best discipline.

Yes. But I hate to have damage or injury from some yahoo's lack of self-discipline.

So, I would support, fear of the long arm of the law as a disciplining factor. Indisciplined behaviour got two top Bollywood stars behind bars. That's a very positive show of action from the society we live in.

[kjdesigns_2000]

Originally Posted by sbasak

Some examples,

* I hesitated to honk but people abused me saying "aare horn kyon nahi deta..."
* I used to allow pedestrians to cross road before I move out.... but I realized that I would probably stand in the same place rest of the day if I do so...
* I tried to keep to a lane, only to discover that I need to follow a 5 km/h bullock cart if I do so.
* I tried to look at both RVMs before pulling out, only to find out autowalahs scrapped my mirror (since then I reverted back to drive with RVMs folded)

The best suggestion I can give to all team-bhpians that when you're in India drive as Indians do [I know I'll be flamed for that ] and if you want to reach your destination quickly and safely, make your own rule in the road.

Rules are good when 99% people follow them, but dangerous otherwise. In India, if you follow all rules, you'll be that remaining 1% people and will suffer a lot.

And for those IT guys who often shuttle between India and abroad, I'd advise that as soon as you land in India, re-set your mind as before otherwise you'll suffer from depression.
Just my 50 paise

True True True... every word you said is True, only a few educated group of people cannot improve the whole lot of people in India. Cant say about other cities but in Delhi the Traffic is brutal. You drive slow then people jump on roads in front of you for crossing. Soon people behind will force you to change lane. You switch lane and youll be stuck behind a slow auto or rickshaw.

Everyday its a struggle and people get so fed up that if there is a slight touch of car or a quarrel starts, these days it ends only when one of the guys is shot.

[abhibh]

* How many km did you drive last year? On what quality of road?
around 30k+ on ok quality of roads mostly good roads of Chandigarh

* How many km did you put on the odometer of the last car you sold?
1lac something

* How many accidents did you have in the last 3 years?
accidents like major or minor like cycle wallah scratching etc. Major none i have had no major accident till now in my lifetime. but ya bumper touching @speed below 3km i had just 1 week ago haha. and that also has happened only 3 times in my life lol. THANK GOD


* How much do you spend on repairs and maintenance?
used to spend less but team BHP spoiled the habbits its almost double now for engine oil and stuff.

* Would the world's topmost car-driving countries consider you among the best teachers of the driving-skill?
lol never driven anywhere except india lol. but ya i drive pretty slow and steady 95% of the time. Friends say my driving is good but no one is perfect.

[sreenivass]

Originally Posted by ram

I agree.

Reflecting back on my American and European experiences, the following thoughts come to mind...

The freeways of the USA abounded with crummy pickup trucks, motorhomes and tasteless SUVs, bouncing along the freeways indisciplinedly in any lane that suited their fancy.
Other artifacts were: a fat physically unfit population, paunchy rural donuts-and-black-coffee highway cops with "I own my town" attitude, I could go on and on... The USA's so uncool.

But give me anytime, the finesse of Europe, the nimble, refined power-isn't-all spiders, berlinas, coupes and GTs, the discipline of the autobahnen, autoroutes, autosnelwege, motorvägen and autostrade, the unforgiving laws towards careless driving and towards ill-maintained cars, the polite cops and the friendly Italian signorinas.

Originally Posted by RJK

hahaaha..I agree man, two weeks back I was driving in Queens, NY and the traffic was absolutely like bombay..slow moving traffic and lots of honking and lane cutting, bikers cutting through the cars....now these were SBK's..hahaha..I suddenly felt home; only thing lacking was rickshaw...

And I do agree with Cheap_deal, USA drivers aren't necessarily the best, infact in Philadelphia, traffic is again nuts with people switching lanes w/o indicators, few instances of jumping signals etc. I drove in Switzerland 2 years back and oh boy, the traffic there was so damn disciplined, its unbelievable !

I agree US east coast is not definitely the best. Texas and Ca are much better that way. I did not live in the eastern portions of US, but when I heard about it many times it sounded like traffic in our indian cities.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by ram

But give me anytime, the finesse of Europe, the nimble, refined power-isn't-all spiders, berlinas, coupes and GTs, the discipline of the autobahnen, autoroutes, autosnelwege, motorvägen and autostrade, the unforgiving laws towards careless driving and towards ill-maintained cars, the polite cops and the friendly Italian signorinas.

That sounds so good!

All UK has now is cameras. Speed cameras that are placed just where you least expected a 50MPH to become 30MPH limit; bus lane cameras that cost you Rs4000 just because you took the bus lane for a couple of meters out of unmoving traffic, and parking that no-one can find or afford.

The car is so politically incorrect that it is attacked in every way.

But yes, the British driving test ensures that a person is actually able to perform all the basic driving manoeuvres, at least on the day we take that test.

And yes, if you drive into the back of someone else's car, it is presumed to be your fault.

Whilst I'd agree with the poster who said that it is not possible to drive here as it is in UK, we can bring those lessons from there and compromise. But sure, if, for instance, we never overtook on the left, we'd often just be stuck!

But didn't anyone tell any of the two-wheelers that overtaking a car on the left when it is indicating to turn left is stupid beyond all comprehension?

Actually, mostly what is needed to create good driving is not any great knowledge of rules or technique --- it is a basic attitude of respect and consideration for others.

And I'm afraid mine gets less, and my driving gets 'worse', the more I drive here

[Sagittarian]

And what about those retards who never depress their headlamps while approaching another vehicle on a highway? I remember a cartoon I saw in MAD magazine some time ago on how to tackle such don't-care guys. You fix a bunch of electronic flash lights on your vehicle and just press the flash button as you pass that guy. He will know for sure how to drive in the dark with eyes wide open. Only make sure that there is none behind you for some distance or the retard might go and hit that innocent.

[scooby05]

On the topic of the Thread:-
My co passenger [ next to the driver] always drives better than me!! Hehe.

[subbarp]

Originally Posted by ram

Just thinking. Team-BHP could be an excellent forum to foster top in class safe driving habits.

Do you do a Head check or merely a Mirror check?

If you see something in the mirror that would delay you changing lanes, then the mirror is telling you, "no". If it looks all clear in the mirror, you still don't have a "yes" until you actually turn your head and look. This is what we were taught in California.

I think, in our country (at-least Bangalore), it is dangerous to remove your sight from the road to look over your shoulder - you might have a pedestrian who is taking an evening walk across the road or a cow going across the road to meet its other friend on the road. Or a buffalo that suddenly appears out of nowhere and if it is dusk, challenging to spot it if you are removing your gaze.
Let me know your thoughts.

I think what might wok here is very slight deviations of angle while changing lanes and keeping your eye on the ORVM.

[D1ISTHE1]

Guys, the real problem lies with motorists who are less educated, they usually get you into trouble. In India, everyone has his own rules on how they drive. Big cities the two wheelers are a bit restless they would use up every inch of the gap that is available between two vehicles on a red light just to get themselves in the front line. Atuorickshaws are 'Bugs' as i call them, the most of them are influenced with the 'Give a damn' approach.
Secondly IMO if you know how to use your rear view and ORVM it helps a lot, only thing that matters is how you interprate the info you get from it. I personally, when driving in the city or even a highway keep an eye on the traffic in front and behind me just to get an idea of what actually is around.
And always dirve with a 'Cool mind' which is most important.

[Jaggu]

How aware are you of what the traffic is like behind you?

Paranoid

Do you do a Head check or merely a Mirror check?

Depends. combinations

Do you drive by the book and take the trouble to look over your shoulder before attempting to change lanes, or are you lazy and rely only on the mirrors instead? (I've seen some of us even nonchalantly driving with the ORVMs folded)

Depends, while pulling out and lane intersections and stuff i do shoulder check


Do you maintain the two-second-rule distance behind the vehicle in front of you? (three-second distance in rainy weather) or do you tailgate the poor chap?

S P A C E Y E S

Do you underestimate the other driver’s potential for aggression and overestimate your potential to get away with bad road behaviour?

YES

How can we improve the state of affairs back home here?

Lane discipline.
Overtaking - Correct side and speed.
Patience.
Following Signals.
[*]How many km did you drive last year? On what quality of road?

Since Jan 07 Approx 20,000 kms, Highways/Hills 60% 0f kms, rest city
[*]How many km did you put on the odometer of the last car you sold?

44,000 kms
[*]How many accidents did you have in the last 3 years?

Touch wood - None, if you discount the handbrake roll incident
[*]How much do you spend on repairs and maintenance?

Regular
[*]Would the world's topmost car-driving countries consider you among the best teachers of the driving-skill?

Have "heard" about US of A and Germany

[nickatnite]

"We" DO NOT drive in India."We" just behave like bulls in a china shop would, on the road.I visited Bangalore recently and i take back everything negative i've said about old Delhi traffic.Bangalore is hell!.Pedestrians crossing the street better watch out!.You will get run over, and that's when you're doing a legal crossing.Bangalore takes the prize among Indian cities for the worst driving conditions and manners.Other Indian cities aen't that far behind either!.If that's any consolation to any Bangaloreans who might be offended.

[DirtyDan]

The four biggest differences between Indian driving and U.S. driving are:

1.) The U.S. road system is gigantic and way far advanced over India
in size and high quality to the point where most Indians can not
even concieve of the difference.

2.) The U.S. drivers are GENERALLY much more in control of their
cars and much more apt to drive courteously (East Coast big cities
are one exception). This is understandable, U.S. drivers log many
more kilometers than Indian drivers.

3.) Police in the U.S. rarely take bribes on traffic matters. Traffic
laws are strictly enforced and there are a lot of police around
especially in patrol cars. For example, for failing to signal at a lane
change or an intersection, for driving with high beam lights on, for
cutting off someone with a bad lane change, for driving with a tail
light not working...all these things may get you an expensive
citation.
Speed limits are enforced relatively rigorously by radar equipped
police in patrol cars and these units are plentiful.

Driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs is not
tolerated and there are no exceptions. Every month in the U.S.
one hears about some politician, wealthy twit or Hollywood star
who has been arrested by the police.
Furthermore, ALL driver licenses and vehicle registrations are on
statewide and/or national computer databases. Any violation, any
chronic offender will be found by radio equipped police in a matter
of under a minute after a policeman has called in to his dispatcher
with the license and registration information.

4.) If you act aggressively, discourtiously or stupidly on a road in the
U.S. you are prone to getting physically attacked by anyone you
have victimized. This is known as "road rage". It is a relatively
common and sometimes very violent event. There have been
many instances where a man (usually but not always) has followed
a driver who has offended him in some way for a distance of over
100K right to that person's house and proceeded to assault them.
And, since guns are more legal and much more common,
sometimes the angry man is also armed. This tends to keep many
people more careful of what they do on the road.

Making India a copy of how things are done in the West just is not going to happen. It is more likely that the West will acquire driving traits of India as the West faces economic turn downs and population problems of its own. Perhaps dwindling energy resources will have dramatic effects on driving East or West.

[abhibh]

* How many km did you drive last year? On what quality of road?
55k+ KM on ok quality of road mostly within city and some driving on bad pot holes roads too. Since last November. Almost an year now.

* How many km did you put on the odometer of the last car you sold?
NO IDEA. I never sold a car lol

* How many accidents did you have in the last 3 years?
0 touch wood i never ever had an accident. I mean ya i twice hit a car in front of me @speed of 2kmph lol. It was just bumper to bumper touch

How much do you spend on repairs and maintenance?
Since joined TBHP its almost 3 times what it used to be

* Would the world's topmost car-driving countries consider you among the best teachers of the driving-skill?
ARE U KIDDING ME!!! No one is best or perfect in driving !!!!!!

[D1ISTHE1]

Well heard a lot over this now, do we actually wanna do something then here is the way (IMHO) it shud be. We call ovrselves a community and now its the time we need to work as one.

Now lets just not talk the talk
Gotta Wlak the walk

STEP1.(Are we ready for it yet..?)

We need to have a working body(elected/volunteers) which will organise the following:
a. Local Awareness campaings (Funding ??? you ask !)
b. Govt. interactions (who's who)
c. Addressing issues publically with motoring and safety.
d. Pollution and enviornmental (Biggest problem)

Now certianly I'm not the one with the entire solution, would really appreciate if someone comes up with more suggestions that are practical and may be of some serious help.

Where there's a will...there's a way
Together, we can make it happen

[Sparkie]

Well this might be a tad OT but quite relevant to the thread.

Ram, pretty good and important topic you have brought up here and I would like to share something that I have thought for a long time.

I see a basic problem with humans. People want to believe, what they want to believe. In other words, they want to believe that they are right and so are their actions and are unable to feel otherwise. But this is obviously untrue, people are quite quick to criticize those around them.
Similarly with driving. Everybody believes that they drive well, irrespective of whether they do or not. Every time I hear somebody tell me about their accident, they tell me it was the other guys fault. The 'other' guy is probably telling his friends the same thing. Common sense will tell you, that atleast half of these people are to blame. Both involved can't keep blaming each other. Barring a few exceptions, nobody is even willing to realize that they themselves might have been at fault.
So a person should look at himself first and admit that he might have made a mistake instead of being blinded by his I-am-perfect illusion. Every driver thinks that everybody else on the road drives horribly. But every other driver thinks the same too, so a lot of us have some room for improvement.

My mistake(an example that I got for the above later too!):
I drive an Indica/ride an Enfield. And the only mistake that I ever made - which was with my car - was when I was too close to an Ikon coming in the opposite direction, so the side view mirrors hit each other and mine popped out and cracked. Otherwise never had even a small scratch on my car. A month or two back, my colleagues and me thought of going out for lunch so I took my friend's Scooty as I don't have a vehicle in the city I work in. To cut it short, I ended up locking the wheels at 50 kmph, I fell and was sliding down the road for 15 metres. My bones were luckily intact(and I didn't hit any vehicle or vice versa) but still didn't walk properly for 10 days and had a huge scar on my arm. I didn't see the car turning across the road in front of me in time(and I thought he probably turned suddenly) but my friend following me at the back said the car was there in advance, you didn't see it in time. The mistake was mine. But I can learn and improve myself instead of cocooning myself in false belief.