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Old 18th December 2022, 08:32   #16
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re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

The Team BHPian asks if RDE is a necessary evil....It is necessary, but then one of the highest GHG emissions in India is also coal based thermal power plants, and blast furnaces used to make iron. Similarly, what about the emission from factories used to make essential goods that we use day to day? We don't see emission reduction in power plants and blast furnaces, and other industrial GHG emissions getting the scrutiny they deserve, or as much as the automotive industry is scrutinized.

In NCR the smoke cloud from stubble burning moves in from adjacent areas during winter. But the automotive industry is penalized for that emission. The automotive industry has abided by the strict emission norms but did it solve the problem?

Also, in my personal opinion GHG emissions will reduce significantly if human beings consciously reduce their consumption, in terms of not buying the things we don't need. Cutting down on unnecessary comforts and luxuries. Not just here in India, but all over the world.

Having said this, why slap the automotive industry alone with such stringent regulations, when there is leniency towards other GHG emitters? It has been done too quickly from the year 2018 to 2022, the pendulum suddenly swung towards extremely stringent emission norms BS4, BS6, RDE.

Does an automobile like TVS XL100 moped require a fuel injector with 7 sensors and a fuel pump? Why make it so complex.

The outcome of stringent emission norms:

1. Lower middle class will find it much more difficult to afford new cars and upgrade from a 2 wheeler to 4 wheeler.

2. Also, very few performance oriented models will remain in the non-premium segment due to higher cost of emissions reduction equipment.

3. Money that could have otherwise been spent on improving safety and crashworthiness of the automobile is being spent on adding many layers of emission reduction equipment in the IC engine.

4. Diesel engines which usually have a fun to drive element, will be phased out sooner in passenger cars. While stringent norm like RDE is not imposed on commercial vehicles, construction equipment, and captive AC power generators, we are not conscious that these are the highest emitters of NOx. But unfortunately, the diesel passenger car segment has been the only victim for all other diesel emissions by and large!

By the way, Have we checked if all air-conditioners and induction motors who are another major source of GHG, are the latest, most advanced and most energy efficient?

Why make the emission norms so stringent only for one type of GHG emitter, passenger automobiles?
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Old 19th December 2022, 20:19   #17
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re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

Quote:
The carmakers are getting ready to stop the sales of such models citing reasons such as already low sales which negate the benefit of investing time and effort into bettering the emissions of their engines.
A very welcome move in my opinion, stricter emission norms benefit everyone. Common perception suggests that only the Octavia and Superb would be missed, but if Skoda thinks that it would be too un-economical for them to upgrade these beauties, so be it.

Any manufacturer could fill in their void, although I'm not very hopeful of that.
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Old 20th December 2022, 22:41   #18
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Re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

We can all thanks Volkswagen for RDE if not for their dieselgate scandal.

Wherein the TDi ECU knew when car was in lab for testing and when driven outside.

RDE is right thing to do when manufacturers claim their car meet certain emission standard; why can't they meet when driven on roads for testing?

It simply means all the cars being phased out were either cheating or fail in RDE testing.

Good that India is moving forward with global standards of emission or even better.
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Old 20th December 2022, 23:00   #19
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Re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

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Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
We can all thanks Volkswagen for RDE if not for their dieselgate scandal..
I believe you are mixing things up here. In the past emissions were measured with the car standing still. What VW did is to have a software switch that detected this stationary testing mode and adjust emissions.

But previously, the standard anywhere in the world was always a lab type of testing. A real life testing is just that. To what extend it is relevant I can not say. Itís similar to fuel efficiency or battery range. It will never ever exactly replicate the way you drive. But it allows for comparison. Yes, the VW of this world could pull the very same trick as they did before. But I doubt, maybe wishful thinking, they wonít.

At the end of the day, any type of testing needs to be standardised. And by that definition it will differ from what most users experience. So, you use it to compare and manufacturers will optimise their product to comply with the test.

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Old 21st December 2022, 00:00   #20
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Re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

You are absolutely right. 100%. The tests have to be standardized to the last detail. i.e. to a level where they specify which engine operating map the ECU should execute while the vehicle is on RDE test on the road. This is because, one can always program in a such a way that the engine goes on a low power / torque mode, when the test is ON on the road, to show lower emissions and thus meet the emission norms.

Even if the operating map is standardized it will produce different results on different engines, depending on the size, design and performance parameters of the engine. We do not know if that will help.

Also, there should be periodic random surprise checks on newly produced cars to check if their emissions are the same as that was certified before start of sales.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I believe you are mixing things up here. In the past emissions were measured with the car standing still. What VW did is to have a software switch that detected this stationary testing mode and adjust emissions.

But previously, the standard anywhere in the world was always a lab type of testing. A real life testing is just that. To what extend it is relevant I can not say. Itís similar to fuel efficiency or battery range. It will never ever exactly replicate the way you drive. But it allows for comparison. Yes, the VW of this world could pull the very same trick as they did before. But I doubt, maybe wishful thinking, they wonít.

At the end of the day, any type of testing needs to be standardised. And by that definition it will differ from what most users experience. So, you use it to compare and manufacturers will optimise their product to comply with the test.

Jeroen
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Old 25th February 2023, 17:58   #21
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Re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

With just a month and few days left, many manufacturers are yet to update their Cars confirming to RDE norms. Most of the Two wheelers manufacturers are silent about the upgrade.

Will it affect any Two Wheeler manufacturer? just like small diesel engines?
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Old 26th March 2023, 00:29   #22
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Re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

I am currently procuring an i20 N Line DCT. Went to have a look at the vehicle today at the yard. Via the Chassis Number, I was able to find that the vehicle was manufactured in 2023 February.
I am told from Dealerís end that the vehicle is manufactured in February 2023 so it is RDE compliant as well as E20 Fuel Compliant.
Looked hard in the manual booklet but could not find any mention of operating fluids/compatible fuel standards. Definitely no mention of E20
/E10/E5 fuel. I have not made payment yet or got the partial loan processed.

Is there any way I can find out if this engine is E20 Compliant? Planning to close the purchase this year by 31st in case it is E20 compliant. This way TCS of 12k will be applicable in this FY itself.

Is there an official news piece or information that was published regarding the 1.0 Turbo engines on i20 and Venue about the E20 updates?
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Old 26th March 2023, 07:08   #23
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Re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

How will they test the existing cars for PUC? How will existing S4/ BS6 ( non RDE) cars comply going forward?
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Old 1st April 2023, 19:47   #24
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Re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

So, the RDE norms have kicked in from today. Many cars which are not getting upgraded are taken off the market. It is surprising that this thread is muted or is there any other thread that it is being discussed in detail?

How the RC of new vehicles will reflect - BS6.2 as it is popularly called?
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Old 5th April 2023, 14:45   #25
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Re: Real Driving Emission norms | A necessary evil?

Well, look at 2025 BS6 - STage II-B Norms

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