[shaheenazk]

I wonder why TATA is adamant on continuing with the unproven, under powered, puny 1.2 L engine in the Altroz Sports. It's high time they upgrade to a 1.5 L unit.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

I wonder why TATA is adamant on continuing with the unproven, under powered, puny 1.2 L engine in the Altroz Sports. It's high time they upgrade to a 1.5 L unit.

They have no option as they cannot get a new engine nor can they develop one at rapid pace as the ICE engine will come to a new hault due to due regulations that will force all manufacturers to cease IC engines and shift to Electric.

Secondly due to economies of scale, they will not be able to take a third party engine and start manufacturing. Thirdly 1.5L engine will come under high taxation and will deter buyers and the enthusiasts are quite low in numbers and will sell very low.just like POLO GTO.

It doesn't make economic sense for the company. Oresle we would have seen 4X4 Safari by now. It makes more sense to concentrate on their current shift to Electrics as they will get a head start and they can maintain their lead in the market.

Now electrics have put the world automotives on an even platform and with digitisation and automation, now almost all car manufacturers have come to the same level of tech.

[gomzi]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

TATA MOTORS has announced its insight into AUTOEXPO 2023.
...
...
What all can we expect at this Auto Expo 2023?

Electric cars
PUNCH EV
CURVV EV
SIERRA EV

Petrol cars
HARRIER?
SEDAN
>4M SUV

Lets see what's in store. I have booked my tickets for the AUTOEXPO 2023 for day 1. Waiting for all the excitement in offer!!

Probably an Altroz EV production version as well I'd expect.

I just wish they'd add 6 airbags to their already safe cars, and standardize on the 1.2 Turbo petrol engine on all < 4m cars.

Not asking for much Tata, are you listening?

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

They have no option as they cannot get a new engine nor can they develop one at rapid pace as the ICE engine will come to a new hault due to due regulations that will force all manufacturers to cease IC engines and shift to Electric.....Secondly due to economies of scale, they will not be able to take a third party engine and start manufacturing....It doesn't make economic sense for the company. Oresle we would have seen 4X4 Safari by now. It makes more sense to concentrate on their current shift to Electrics as they will get a head start and they can maintain their lead in the market.

There is another Indian car manufacturer operating in the same environment as TATA does. Look at the engines they offer or are planning to offer in the the future.

Even if the intake of BEVs grow at 100-200%, there will still be a sizeable percentage of sales happening for ICE cars for the upcoming decade. Are they going to eke out the 1.2l lump till then?

This is the only reason I am not much happy seeing TML's recent sales success. They are becoming more and more complacent in the most important part of the vehicle. The engines. They should be concentrating more on QC if they want a headstart, cause the customers will be happy to jump ship if there are BEVs from other manufacturers who are serious about their QC process.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by DicKy

There is another Indian car manufacturer operating in the same environment as TATA does. Look at the engines they offer or are planning to offer in the the future.

Even if the intake of BEVs grow at 100-200%, there will still be a sizeable percentage of sales happening for ICE cars for the upcoming decade. Are they going to eke out the 1.2l lump till then?

Mahindra started their engine development plans in 2015-16 along with Ssangyong and now are complete with the new engine development plans. TATAs have done it more earlier with the development of TATA TIAGO with the all aluminium 1.2L Revotron engine in 2012-13. They added a balancer shaft to make the engine vibrate less. Now the engines are more reliable than before. But Aluminium block engines vibrate a lot.

TATA BOLT & ZEST has 1.2L 4 cylinder Iron block engines that were smooth and less vibrating but heavy. I drove one and was super impressed. Could not say the engine was running.

But now after announcement of regulations, new engine development of all the companies have come to a hault. It is impossible to develop new engines but only refine the existing ones. TATA is on the task to add a cylinder and make them smoother for the 1.5L 4 cylinder version. But can't expect a totally new one at this juncture.

[ramotra3]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

Mahindra started their engine development plans in 2015-16 along with Ssangyong and now are complete with the new engine development plans. TATAs have done it more earlier with the development of TATA TIAGO with the all aluminium 1.2L Revotron engine in 2012-13. They added a balancer shaft to make the engine vibrate less. Now the engines are more reliable than before. But Aluminium block engines vibrate a lot.

TATA BOLT & ZEST has 1.2L 4 cylinder Iron block engines that were smooth and less vibrating but heavy. I drove one and was super impressed. Could not say the engine was running.

But now after announcement of regulations, new engine development of all the companies have come to a hault. It is impossible to develop new engines but only refine the existing ones. TATA is on the task to add a cylinder and make them smoother for the 1.5L 4 cylinder version. But can't expect a totally new one at this juncture.

Thanks for the info. I wish TATA make 1.2L Turbo petrol 4-cylinder engine by modifying existing revotron engine. It is possible isn't it?

[Venkatesh]

Glimpse of Tata EVs to be showcased at the Auto Expo on 11th Jan.













Link

[ashutoshb]

The third one does not look like a Safari. I think its the Sierra.

[SR-71]

I think its the Tata Avinya - https://ev.tatamotors.com/Avinya/

[digitalnirvana]

Altroz, Harrier, Sierra and Avinya.

[sravankrishnan]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

Altroz, Harrier, Sierra and Avinya.

Not that it matters much but that definitely looks like a Tiago and not the Altroz which is a funny goof from TML It looks a bit tall and short on length and the rear gives it away as well. But hey looking forward to seeing the Altroz EV in flesh.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

Altroz, Harrier, Sierra and Avinya.

Thought it gives a glimpse of Avinya, it seems a new EV sedan based on the Gen 3 born EV skateboard platform on which Avinya was showcased.

The picture of the ALTROZ is misrepresented with a picture of TIAGO...

[udaikalra01]

The Sierra silhouette looks different from what we saw at the last Auto Expo. Getting closer to production, maybe?

Also, the first one definitely looks like a Tiago.ev

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Glimpse of Tata EVs to be showcased at the Auto Expo on 11th Jan.

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

Altroz, Harrier, Sierra and Avinya.

Woohoo!!! The Sierra is coming and pray that the Avinya gets into production stage. Can't wait to drive a Tata sedan with their current handling/steering/ride prowess. And since it is skateboard platform, please make it RWD, why do manufacturers even make born BEVs as FWD when there is no discernible advantage?

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

Mahindra started their engine development plans in 2015-16 along with Ssangyong and now are complete with the new engine development plans. TATAs have done it more earlier with the development of TATA TIAGO with the all aluminium 1.2L Revotron engine in 2012-13....TATA BOLT & ZEST has 1.2L 4 cylinder Iron block engines that were smooth and less vibrating but heavy. I drove one and was super impressed. Could not say the engine was running.... TATA is on the task to add a cylinder and make them smoother for the 1.5L 4 cylinder version. But can't expect a totally new one at this juncture.

Mahindra upgraded the existing 2.2l diesel to BS6 and also made it more powerful with a manual and Aisin automatic. A spanking new 2.0l GDI turbo petrol in both manual and Aisin automatic. A new 1.5l diesel which they could use for anything under 20 lakhs, though they are unable to mate it to a proper automatic. A new 1.2l GDI turbo petrol which they can use for any small car. And an yet unlaunched 1.5l GDI turbo petrol which they will launch when the apt models are launched. And also AWD and 4X4 systems to boot.

And Tata? Neither could they make the 2.2l BS6 compliant (it is for CV application, but at a measly 99bhp), nor could they adopt the the engine to a transverse FWD layout. The cast iron 1.2l that were used in the Bolt/Zest are based on the 1.2l found in the Indica Xeta, which is in turn is a downsized one of the 1.4l petrol in the Indica which shared the same block of the Indica diesel. The 1.2l aluminium one found in the present cars is all new no doubt, but is it basically a good engine? It was rated mediocre when it was brand new, and is mediocre today with all the constant improvements they are making. It was good for the Tiago, but still using it for a 15 lakh car? Only time good things were heard was in the JTP, but then it was massaged for performance (cue the 15.xx km/l ARAI mileage). The outsourced 2.0l diesels in the Harrier/Safari are good, but Tata managed to screw the clutch tuning in the manual. The only decent engine IMO from Tata at present is the 1.5l diesel (which again traces its roots to the old 1.4l in the Indica) and even here they managed to screw up in the Altroz, by not being able to put a 6 speed gearbox in a brand new grounds up ALFA platform. The 1.5l turbo petrol which is basically the present 1.2l + one cylinder has been rumoured since the Revetron engine family was announced. Must be 5+ years since Tata has been mumbling in the press releases about modular engines et al. But that is it. No other announcement from Tata. With increasing sales revenue and the fact that the EV arm got fresh investment from outside, hope Tata makes up for the lost time.
Sincerely, a former TML anorak.

[Knightrider]

Originally Posted by udaikalra01

The Sierra silhouette looks different from what we saw at the last Auto Expo. Getting closer to production, maybe?

Not so different if you add a rear spoiler to the concept model.