[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

The driving quality and the mileage was awful.


The product was priced at a ridiculous premium which was not justified in terms of value. The brand was priced at around which you could buy an entry level sedan.The product although looked excellent outside was a mess inside. The vehicle lacked space and comfort especially for the rear seat. It had all the qualities for an offroader but failed to understand the Indian customer. The mileage was awful and that ensured that only those who fall head over heals over the looks only will buy this brand.


Why did off-roaders prefer the Gypsy ? Again simply because of the light weight body (power to weight ratio). But bear in mind that off-roaders always modified their Gypsys with suspension, diff locks, axles etc and most even upgrading the engine as it was underpowered. The Gypsy body is even used for RFC off-road challenges. However they would change the engine to another one eg. Baleno engine.

Few inputs/answers based on actual usage of Gypsy right from MG410, to 410W to 413W Carb to 413W MPFI to Baleno engine gypsy etc.

1. The driving quality and the mileage was awful.
Ans: Driving quality is pathetic because of weight but not the mileage. Real world mileage is between 11-14 KMPL which is not bad

2. The product was priced at a ridiculous premium which was not justified in terms of value.
Ans: Not much of a premium until 2012-13, it was slightly above Mahindra Major.

3. The product although looked excellent outside was a mess inside. The vehicle lacked space and comfort especially for the rear seat
Ans: Its other way round, its so utilitarian inside, can seat 8 people, can carry oversize luggage, household goods, Agri equipment etc. Yes its not comfortable without weight, but 2 sacks of sand help in a comfortable ride without passengers

4. Why did off-roaders prefer the Gypsy ? Again simply because of the light weight body (power to weight ratio). But bear in mind that off-roaders always modified their Gypsys with suspension, diff locks, axles etc and most even upgrading the engine as it was underpowered.
Ans: That is the case with all off-road vehicles available in India or probably entire world. Mass manufactured vehicles are for masses. Any specified use needs to be tackled accordingly. You need more articulation? you change suspension. You need more off-road advantage ? install lockers and this list goes on...

5. The Gypsy body is even used for RFC off-road challenges. However they would change the engine to another one eg. Baleno engine.
Ans: I participated in 2019 RFC with stock Gypsy engine and never I felt it underpowered. it cleared all the obstacles on its own power which rest of the vehicles could.
RFC is a different ballgame altogether. But if you look at the trend, you can figure out people coming back to lower CC engines. Initially people were after big engines (2.4 Honda, Toyota V6/V8, Suzuki V6 from GV etc.) which not only increased weight but also added additional weight of the modifications (and resulting unreliability) to support extra power. It resulted into slow winching speed (you use winch power most of the time). Now people are coming back to lighter engines (1.6 baleno is a good example). Take a look at winners of last 304 RFC India.
BTW, old Baleno engine is not very powerful, it produces just 94 BHP @5500 RPM and 130 NM torque @3000 RPM.

I give all the credits to Mahindra to develop new thar and keep this category alive. Otherwise Maruti would have never launched Jimny.
And it all started by Behram Dhabhar Sir, otherwise there would have been no Thar.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Shubhendra

[b]Few inputs/answers based on actual usage
I give all the credits to Mahindra to develop new thar and keep this category alive. Otherwise Maruti would have never launched Jimny.
And it all started by Behram Dhabhar Sir, otherwise there would have been no Thar.

Yes indeed the Thar catalysed the otherwise decision paralysed Maruti and galvanised them into launching the Jimny. Thank Heaven for competition!

And one can only tip one’s hat respectfully to Mr Behram Dhabhar. Such a nice man and such a pleasure to interact with. So sad he has gone away to the great off road track in the sky.

[nanoguy]

Originally Posted by TusharK

According to a media report, the army plans to replace around 35,000 units of the Gypsy. Maruti will offer the army-spec Jimny 5-door in a Dark Jungle Green shade, which will be reserved for the army version. Besides the colour, the army-spec Jimny is said to feature a strengthened chassis with stiffer springs and increased ground clearance.

With a 35,000 units demand, why would army wait for the Jimny to be launched in India in a 4-door version? It was already being manufactured in India and they could have reached out to Maruti to create a phased supply of the 2-door version itself.
OR
Maruti, perceiving this demand, could have reached out for providing them with the 2-door version itself.

Why?

[sadnabrina]

Did anyone here mention that Gypsy (and Jimny) is the only Petrol 4X4 with low ratio transfer case available in India under 50 lakhs?

That is a very important consideration for the Armed Forces catering to high altitude freezing temparatures. The low freezing point of Petrol over Diesel makes a lot of difference to them.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by sadnabrina

Did anyone here mention that Gypsy (and Jimny) is the only Petrol 4X4 with low ratio transfer case available in India under 50 lakhs?
.

Even the new Thar has the 4x4 with 4L and Petrol engine.
But it is very wide compared to the Gypsy and Jimny and hence not as agile on really narrow trails.

[Vulken Auto]

Adding one more to all the positives of gypsy for armed forces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CNgixDty-0

[Black_Star]

Originally Posted by nanoguy

With a 35,000 units demand, why would army wait for the Jimny to be launched in India in a 4-door version? It was already being manufactured in India and they could have reached out to Maruti to create a phased supply of the 2-door version itself.

Because the army specification calls for a four door that can seat 4 to five people comfortably.

I had read the specification a while back but cant seem to find it now, and even so Jimny four door has to modified to meet those specializations

[sadnabrina]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Even the new Thar has the 4x4 with 4L and Petrol engine.
But it is very wide compared to the Gypsy and Jimny and hence not as agile on really narrow trails.

Oh yes. I am sorry somehow Thar Petrol went out of my mind when I wrote this. But agree with you that the width is quite important for such narrow trails.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by sadnabrina

Oh yes. I am sorry somehow Thar Petrol went out of my mind when I wrote this. But agree with you that the width is quite important for such narrow trails.

Slightly hijacky and OT but here is the illustration of width on a trail.
First pic taken from my Thar
Second one from my Gypsy
These trails are roughly around 6-8 feet wide at the most.

[volkman10]

Maruti Suzuki is already in touch with the Indian army for the induction of Jimny to the army fleet.

Rumoured to be in the 3 door format, Maruti Suzuki is likely to make some enhancements suited to the Indian Army.



It is also said that Jimny will get a soft top and finish in dark jungle green.



Link

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Maruti Suzuki is already in touch with the Indian army

It is also said that Jimny will get a soft top and finish in dark jungle green.

Wonder whether the soft top SWB Jimny will take inspiration from this.

[vivekgk]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the army to get a variant of the Mahindra ROXOR? Mahindra can't sell it in the US anymore. They could fit the mStallion petrol engine on the ROXOR, and it would make for a fearsome machine. We've seen how well it performs in the Thar. Imagine how it would do in a lighter ROXOR.

Coming back to the Jimny, the new Jimny weighs about 300kg more than the old Gypsy, and makes just 20 bhp more. The older Gypsy also had a very useful long bed/cabin at the back that could hold a lot of Jawans or other stuff. The Jimny is a strict 4 seater even in the 5 door model.

I think that a purpose-built non-IFS Thar or ROXOR with a petrol engine would make more sense than the new Jimny.

Originally Posted by Vulken Auto

Adding one more to all the positives of gypsy for armed forces.
https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=-CNgixDty-0

While this is fun to watch, it isn't accurate. Of course the vehicle has been heavily modified with quick release parts and is barely held together.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by vivekgk

Wouldn't it make more sense for the army to get a variant of the Mahindra ROXOR? Mahindra can't sell it in the US anymore. They could fit the mStallion petrol engine on the ROXOR, and it would make for a fearsome machine.

The older Gypsy also had a very useful long bed/cabin at the back that could hold a lot of Jawans or other stuff. The Jimny is a strict 4 seater even in the 5 door model.

the vehicle has been heavily modified with quick release parts and is barely held together.

Yes indeed the Roxor would be a great consideration with that MStallion. But the Roxor is also an SWB.
You’re right that the Army liked the longer cargo ish bed of the Gypsy at rear because it could carry 6 soldiers plus arms and ammo or even be strengthened and modified to hold a defensive or offensive weapon and its operators.

Since we are on this topic, I always wondered why Mahindra couldn't offer their Invader which was more Gypsy-esque. Even more so now, it could be considered with the MStallion engine. Or else the Bolero Pik Up or similar.

And yes that Gypsy which they dismantle and put together again is more of a gimmick/ trick and cannot be applied to real life situations.

[SandyX]

Roxor is an MWB, not SWB. Also the old school mule of a MDI3200TC is what makes the Roxor what it is. And this vehicle is fully cleaned up now to reliably serve in a military role, maybe except for the semi floating rear axles. But then, even the Jimny sport them. And the latter can step into places a bigger heavier Roxor can't. So both got their places in demanding jobs.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by TusharK

Besides the colour, the army-spec Jimny is said to feature a strengthened chassis with stiffer springs and increased ground clearance.

Most interested to know which part of the chassis and how? Also wondered why the Jimny chassis is body colour and not black like other bof vehicles. Is the chassis getting painted along with the body, don't they have a separate line for chassis painting.