[rakesh_r]

The Government is considering/studying phasing out vehicles based on the emission levels and not the age. If this does get applied, this will bring a major relief to people who have maintained their cars to the "T" but had to let go of owing to the draconian rule.

News as reported in TOI-Pune edition.

https://epaper.indiatimes.com/articl...016_toipuc_TOI

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

The Government is considering/studying phasing out vehicles based on the emission levels and not the age. If this does get applied, this will bring a major relief to people who have maintained their cars to the "T" but had to let go of owing to the draconian rule.

News as reported in TOI-Pune edition.

https://epaper.indiatimes.com/articl...016_toipuc_TOI

Something that anyone with two brain cells has been arguing for ever since this stupidity was put in place.

And if it does come to pass, who is the liable party for the financial/mental harassment that owners who have had to forcibly scrap the old and buy new vehicles? There must be millions by now. Having scrapped my own car for this, this update makes me even more upset with the system.

[DicKy]

In India, courts have opted for bans due to laxity in implementation of rules by govt agencies.

This sums it up.

Let there be compulsory fitness inspection for vehicles, older than 3-5 years or even younger.

That is what most of the free world does, not ban them without thought.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by DicKy

That is what most of the free world does, not ban them without thought.

Well, it is a little more complicated than this. In many (western) countries, certainly all of the EU there are mandatory checks. In the UK known as MOT. The rules on how often a car needs to be inspected vary a bit. As a rough rule of thumb, cars are likely to need an annual inspection once they reach five years.

The inspection is pretty thorough and aims to check emission and safety aspects. Cars are inspected against whatever the safety and inspection norms were when that particular car was first introduced in the market. So not against the current most stringent norms.

So both my 1982 Mercedes W123 and my 1986 Alfa Romeo Spider don’t require a catalytic converter for that reason.

But here is the killer: just because my cars get inspected every year and comply with all emission and safety rules it doesn’t mean I can drive them all over Europe!

More and more countries, cities and regions are introducing more and more strict emission zones! The older your car is, the less likely you are to be allowed in! I won’t be able to drive my 2003 Jaguar into Brussels or Antwerp for instance!

If you a diesel it gets worse quickly. E.g. diesels with a lower class than 4 won’t be allowed in Amsterdam from next year onwards. And for diesel vans, taxis, busses and trucks there are more strict rules! All vans need to be electric from next year on!

In EU most emission zones are related to the emission class of the vehicle. Of course in practice that correlates pretty much to a particular year and thus age of vehicles.

To the best of my knowledge there are no emission rules where the actual emission of a car is taking into account. It is always measured against the respective diesel/petrol standard. Which is effective a given year. Although manufacturers tend to start manufacturing compliant cars ahead of the formal compliance date of course.

In many emission zones, you need to apply for a sticker or tag. Older cars won’t be eligible for it. And some places issues multiple types of stickers, e.g. France. In France the emission zones are often depending on the weather. And depending on the colour of your sticker you might be allowed in.

For oldtimers the situation is to some extent even more confusing. Belgium is probably the worst. Germany probably the best. Although not a formal rule, if I leave a copy of the car registration on the dashboard when parked, showing my car is over 30 years old, the cops won’t fine me.

So whether you can drive your older car across the EU is very much based on the age of your car and or its respective emission class. And it differs in every country!

Oh, and it gets more stringent by the day in every country of course.

Jeroen

[RedPhobos]

Any guesses how long do you think it will take for the current norm to be revised so that a vehicle's emissions are considered instead of its age? I am currently looking to sell my soon-to-be 15 year old Maruti Suzuki Ritz, but if this new norm comes in, I would like to retain my well-maintained car.

[Samba]

Definitely a move towards the right direction.
But our govt must ensure they provide us the right fuel to run these old cars. Adding the percentage of ethanol in petrol and increasing the biodiesel percentage in diesel and proving BS6 compatible diesel wont help in running these old cars!

[shipnil]

Indeed a welcome move. But who would check and certify that your vehicle meets the norms? Would it be certification centers like we have for PUC? We know how genuinely the center owners check and certify emissions.

If they revise the norms, us car owners might cheer, but I don't see a single vehicle being scrapped including the old trucks, 6 seaters, buses etc.

[iskandariya]

I will go a step up , Why not have RTO pass validate vehicles per MVA rules fitness checks as well as pass custom built vehicles which comply with the norms.

Why only make rules which benefits the Manufacturing units, I recently read where it was quoting Cabinet minister stating it will lead to higher revenue to auto manufacturers by 20% by this scrap policy.

Sheer idioticity, My first vehicle in the family lasted 20yrs Padmini and it use to start at half crank. Esteem lasted 17yrs. A vehicle properly maintained can last a lifetime, why arent Roadways buses , School buses made to comply or those Sand tipper trucks they run Scot free.

Why arent emission from factories factored in ? Why no checks on their emissions ?

[master uio]

Originally Posted by Samba

Definitely a move towards the right direction.
But our govt must ensure they provide us the right fuel to run these old cars.

Absolutely.

Why discriminate against classic cars, specifically well maintained ones. Registration Renewal must be based on fitness and emission norms and other safety norms applicable at the time of manufacture of the said vehicle. Adding ethanol and other organic additives to the fuel is an injustice to the public and playing with the citizens hard-earned money.

Our classics suffer the consequences of one mans whims and fancies to add sugarcane juice to fuel. (Saving foreign exchange on importing fuel is an excuse being made. Batteries of lithium will put the same burden on us and empower the enemy nation on our North Eastern border) Regular fuel must be available to classic vehicle owners, since the quantities are reasonably small to sustain and not harm the environment. Some of us gave a greater part of of our lives collecting and maintaining classic cars.

This knee jerk reaction to curb pollution must not turn vehicle owners into scapegoats.

Aping MOT from the western world and having a fitness test every year for classics is an insane idea. It must remain once every 5 years.

We do not have to copy paste what Sweden, Norway and Finland do either. Their size maybe smaller than some of our districts in India.

[tbppjpr]

No more trust.

Seems like a damage control exercise or a publicity stunt to regain the trust of potential car buyers like me who have postponed their plans to upgrade, replace or buy new cars for the infinite period of time due to the draconian laws.

Now the nexus of the govt and the car companies seem to be on the backfoot due to the piled up stock which they are forced to throw away at the price of peanuts. I wish the greedy car companies would go fully bankrupt who are causing so much harm to the environment and the emotions by forcing people to scrap their cars prematurely just to increase their sells in this era of uncontrolled consumption.

When a family spends so many years with a car then they also invest these many years in the car where they create so many memories together and have so many emotions attached with it. The value of an old car can not be simply measured in money. its not easy for anyone to let the car go away in the manner the Indian govt has forced to do. I don't recall which other country has such draconian laws.

They have already broken so many hearts.

[Centauri]

Good to see that the Govt is atleast thinking in this direction and if implemented , it will not force people to scrap their cars even if they are well maintained and in good running condition. I had to scrap my Santro Xing top model due to this stupid reason a couple of years back quite unwillingly , even though it was running great, and could have easily done a few years more atleast. Hope this materializes soon and I will surely hang on to my Ecosport and enjoy its drives longer still..

[OctYFAN]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

No more trust.

Seems like a damage control exercise or a publicity stunt to regain the trust of potential car buyers like me who have postponed their plans to upgrade, replace or buy new cars for the infinite period of time due to the draconian laws.

I get the same feeling. There are people who are against this and are calling for change.

Doesn't matter if you're an enthusiast or not. This will affect every common man in the country. Newer cars are more expensive to buy, run and repair. Everyone will be hit hard financially if they want a car. Most people don't seem to grasp the importance of this rule.

People need more awareness about this and more dumb rules like this.

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by OctYFAN

This will affect every common man in the country. Newer cars are more expensive to buy, run and repair. Everyone will be hit hard financially if they want a car. Most people don't seem to grasp the importance of this rule.

Economical aspect of job creation is also associated here. If we are keeping old car, that will require more maintenance, more spare parts which in the end will help in keeping the service centers and garages busy resulting into sustained job opportunity.

It scares me to imagine living in the all EV era when cars are just like mobile phones which are already use and throw once their batteries die. There is no requirement of running maintenance like ICE cars hence what will be the need of so many service stations, forget about the FNGs since most of the work is proprietary in the EVs.

Another point is negative sentiments lead into market fall.

When a family grows, they need more cars. If they can retain their old car then its easier for them to add another new car in the family as per their pocket.

But if they are forced to scrap their old car prematurely then they may have to consider buying new car with larger seating capacity which will be expensive for them.

Since they already had to go through the trauma of scrapping their old car, they will definitely have negative sentiments about getting force to dump their expensive newer car also anytime the govt wants.

People need more awareness about this and more dumb rules like this.

I am amazed to see that such law did not lead into any movement or any resistance despite affecting so many people.

[anjan_c2007]

Reading between the lines, the full news states that Sh Anurag Jain, Secretary MORTH, has told SIAM ( the mighty automakers lobby) that they will rethink about cut off for scrapping norms due to extant pollution limits in place. And whether they will go for the policy to scrap pre BS II or pre BS I automobiles is the moot question ? Their pollution testing norms are for sure going to be tweaked after some new official notification based on this statement. Some brand new controversial notification will be issued, soon after some closed-door discussions amongst themselves.

The bureaucrats are totally disconnected. How many pre BS I cars can be sighted in any current congregation of 100 cars? Hardly 1 or 2.

The automobile manufacturers lobby SIAM is hand in glove with them. As such very few privately owned cars outside the NCR are getting scrapped as of now, due to the existing norms that have failed to take off since April 2022. Most of the hapless owners in the NCR are scrapping their vehicles but a majority of NCR automobiles are finding homes elsewhere in India. Apart from this, all government and semi-government vehicles 15 years or older face the scrappers gulliontine. For instance, in Maharashtra, about 16,000 government vehicles have been scrapped till date, since April 2022, as revealed by Mr Bhimanwar, Transport Commissioner, for the state. He has not revealed the private vehicle figures that could be embarrassing for the government. The huge capacities of several automobile scrapping plants set up by our automakers are going unutilised and concerns to MoRTH surely form a part of SIAM's list of grievances, which we may not be privy to.

Automakers want their sales to increase and are unhappy with present day scrapping norms as these lack teeth.And in a SIAM forum, which the MoRTH Secretary was attending, they need pied pipers to play soothing tunes that automakers can dance to and revel with. Not dampeners as killjoys to spoil their pre-festival season mood ! Hence, it is requested that the statement needs to be taken with more pinches of salt than we have ever taken earlier.

This statement is under a disguise and maybe things could get tougher for older cars and bikes to survive.
Old adages that come to my mind are:-

- things are not as simple as they seem to be.

- if MoRTH opens up a new can of worms now, we will find it very tough to uncan these even in a larger can.

(above adage modified from the famous " if you open up a can of worms, the best way out is to uncan these in a larger can")

[vredesbyrd]

I found the appropriate reply for this thread (albeit, a meme)



This would totally be a game-changer and I might not consider moving overseas then.
But, given the track records of bureaucrats and the cognitive ability of our lawmakers, the new emission norms just might be something that scraps 5 year old cars.

The snippet makes me feel both scared and excited. Do I sniff the fumes of an 11 year old 530d alongside my Scorpio-N? Or will I have to sell the latter in the next 4 years because those fool decided to measure ICE exhaust on an EV scale?

Only time will tell.