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Old 24th November 2007, 08:13   #166
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Seriously, coming to tbhp makes one feel utterly dissatisfied with one's own car - and reads about a couple or so solid screwups in almost every brand's car.
phamily, we are all adults and with sufficient education to accept that statistically there will be major failures in cars of ANY marque.
What is scary is the far greater number from the house of Tatas. As you rightly said, there is NO design fault with their engines/cars, it is an attitudinal and cultural fault with the A.S.S.C.s and/or the company. And that, arguably, can be worse!

Last edited by anupmathur : 24th November 2007 at 08:14.
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Old 24th November 2007, 09:48   #167
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Anup, I did not make it look like insignificant, only the person going through it knows the agony and the pain it causes.

I have myself gone through two with the M&M(A.S.S./culture fault, as you said, engine was heating, due to some fan issue, they were not able to trace the source, found by me) and with Hyundai(again turned out the petrol was adulterated causing problems with the injectors, but it was my finding, not theirs, they were not able to trace the source).

Another one with the new Verna here , it was his luck that he was in the city and not travelling at high speeds on the highway.

There are numerous instances with every manufacturer, even with skoda and mercedes, its a machine, can happen to anyone.

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How wonderfully trivial you make it sound! There is something a little amiss here. And it is not a one off case. I have many more noted.
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Old 24th November 2007, 13:50   #168
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Going OT (like everyone already hasnt) - All of which points me to say that one should just go on CNG vehicles. CNG adulteration is impossible

No injector, no crap fuel problem!
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Old 24th November 2007, 14:16   #169
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Hey I am no expert on engine technologies but after reading the experience of Mr. Ramesh Balasundaram and the spares that were replaced wouldn't the problem be cauz of adulterated fuel that might have been put in the vehicle at some point of time.

Two of the four parts 1. Injectors and 2. Common Rail are part of the fuel assembly and with the quality of the fuel the compromised it will definitely affect the above parts??

Though at the same time it is very unfortunate that someone had had to go through something like this with the whole family present.

Last edited by harjeev : 24th November 2007 at 14:17.
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Old 24th November 2007, 14:55   #170
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Hi TATA Guy,

Please, let the guys in your Company know they have cooked up one mean machine!!! cheers:

t

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Originally Posted by TATA.Safari2.2 View Post
Along with being an auto-enthusiast, I work with TATA Motors, and would like to share a few facts about the Safari 2.2
The 2.2 litre engine is a new-generation engine which was developed from scratch with special care being taken to mate it perfectly with the drive-train. consequently, although the power and torque have gone, up the performance is more refined rather than raw.
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Old 24th November 2007, 15:33   #171
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Brother how sure are you of your facts? Never heard of a turbo starting at 2000 rpm, LOL.
The 3.0 Turbo kicks in at about 1,700-1,800 rpm.

What follows is a personal note / request

You seem to be here in this forum with a single-point agenda - you spend more time here talking against Tata and generally downtalking the Safari than you do talking about your own machine.

I have personally tried to explain to you over PM that this sort of childish one-upmanship is not really what this forum is about, but you do not seem to take hints or even direct personal requests.

Despite this, you are all over the Safari threads - liberally donating smartalec comments and being more than a bit hazy on the facts.

Kindly stick to facts - there are people here on this forum that have more actual experience on the Safari than you can think of. People that have bought the vehicle more than once.

This is not to say that this is a vehicle that is free of faults. Much to the contrary, the Safari owners on this forum have been very upfront and candid about the issues they have faced, preferring not to gloss over the glitches and aggrandize their vehicles as god's gift to mankind - they do not need owners of other vehicles to tell them what the issues with THEIR OWN vehicles are. They know what the issues are, deal with them and get on with it in because the issues with the vehicle are quite trivial compared to what you get out of it.

Kindly show respect to this sentiment. You do not find the same crowd trampling all over your Mahindra threads in the manner that you seem to be doing out here. And despite all that you say here and may say later, I can assure you that they will not do so - that says a lot for the difference in the mentality/mindset between the owners of the two vehicles.

PS: If you do wish to respond, my email is steer@team-bhp.com and we can discuss this offline. For the first time in about 3 years with the forum, I find myself searching for and actually using the 'Ignore user' option.

Last edited by Steeroid : 24th November 2007 at 15:40.
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Old 24th November 2007, 16:25   #172
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Does anyone know how well the 2.2L Safari's doing in the market?
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Old 24th November 2007, 20:03   #173
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Hi porsche_fan,

Don't have exact figures but they sold 16000 odd Safari's last year and the TML guy at the launch said they would like to better that by 20% with the 2.2 this year. Here in Pune I see quite a few new Beasts on the road.

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Does anyone know how well the 2.2L Safari's doing in the market?
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Old 24th November 2007, 20:48   #174
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Everyone makes way for the Bullet and the Safari.
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Old 24th November 2007, 21:56   #175
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
You seem to be here in this forum with a single-point agenda
Is it I or is it perhaps you?
The Safari is a perfectly capable and desirable vehicle. The problems that are reported are very much worth analysing in terms of whether these are 'design faults' or are they a lot simpler than that. Everything points to A.S.S. and work culture. Are these so difficult to address? How come Tata as a company is failing at rectification of these issues?
You want my opinion? I think it is because they have not yet accepted the individual owner as contributing sufficiently to their kitty, as opposed to the typical taxi drivers.
All I can say is that it is a 'bawa' company, and I have always held that segment in very high esteem. So what gives? Wish you could throw more light on this rather than getting needlessly personal. Why do you not make public the personal messages we exchanged? I have nothing to hide about those.

As for the 'ignore user' option, perhaps it was designed just for people who cannot handle a situation without resorting to personal attacks! It is your prerogative and you may freely make use of this available privilege!

Last edited by anupmathur : 24th November 2007 at 22:12.
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Old 24th November 2007, 22:57   #176
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Slightly OT, but relevant to some of the discussions in this thread.

"Being Indian" or "Made in India" has some inherent strengths and weaknesses. Lack of proper Quality Control processes or the lack of implementation and adherence to proper quality control processes is one of our major weaknesses, both at the manufacturers plants and at the factories of the vendors. This is also from my experience of having worked at two automobile manufacturers (R&D) in India. Sub-quality vendor supplied parts are quite easily accepted by those who monitor their quality. And you know there are certain benefits attached to these things. I have heard stories of how things work or do not work in the assembly line of the Safari - the owner of these stories being a Telco Employee and my neighbour.

Let me give a real life example. A person wanted to supply a certain product to the company that was marketing it. The company asked the gentleman to bring a sample. Now the guy, being a clever Indian, bought a bottle of the product from the market (which was being sold by the company in question) and then transferred the contents to his own bottle. The company checked his sample and came back to him saying that his sample was of very poor quality.

I do not know if we have enough or effective laws that can be used to sue the companies for poor quality products. May be such laws would have brought down the number of poor quality products that are sold in our markets.

Now coming back to the question of Safari. I have never owned one, nor driven one. But I have loved its looks from the day it was displayed to the world. The commanding presence that it offers cannot be matched by any other Indian branded vehicle. I would love to own one, provided I can afford it.
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Old 25th November 2007, 08:29   #177
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Hi pjbiju,

I hope you do own a Safari soon one day. Driving any thing else after that will be very difficult I assure you!

t


Quote:
Originally Posted by pjbiju View Post

Now coming back to the question of Safari. I have never owned one, nor driven one. But I have loved its looks from the day it was displayed to the world. The commanding presence that it offers cannot be matched by any other Indian branded vehicle. I would love to own one, provided I can afford it.
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Old 25th November 2007, 08:41   #178
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Hi anupmathur,

Today's TOI has this from Ratan Tata - "The company had proved its critics wrong, who had aired apprehensions about a truck manufacturer getting into the production of cars. He added that there was a long way to go, in terms of production quality, to match world standards."

So, I think one day the fit and finish will be world class. Whether that day is a year away or 10, is any one's guess.

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How come Tata as a company is failing at rectification of these issues?
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Old 25th November 2007, 09:17   #179
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So, I think one day the fit and finish will be world class.
Turbanman, it is not even so much the fit and finish that bother me, it is the reliability aspect.
If a year passes by with significantly reduced complaints regarding Safaris, I would love to own one as well. I just hope that in doing all this the price does not go out of my budget range!
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Old 25th November 2007, 10:41   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Going OT (like everyone already hasnt) - All of which points me to say that one should just go on CNG vehicles. CNG adulteration is impossible

No injector, no crap fuel problem!
Dont bet on it. CNG is relatively new. So not much scope of adulteration yet. Its only a matter of time before our smart a** fuel dealers find a way to mix something into CNG.
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