Why would you not buy FIAT?

Eddy · 18th March 2008, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by spadival

Fiat has taken steps to address those issues which are within their control. For example: making sure spare parts are available on time etc. Only problem is that reality has not overtaken people's perception of FIAT as yet.

I do not think thats the case. Read this. A pretty recent example of Fiats "service"
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ab-motors.html

amitpunjani · 18th March 2008, 15:22

ohh!!! Boy this thread started at 09:47 and now it is 15:15 and already 1000 views and 80

replies.
This surely says how people are obsessed about Fiat. I am sure this would not have been the case if we were discussing about Mahindra or GM or Maruti or Tata for that matter.

Amit

prabuddhadg · 18th March 2008, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitpunjani

ohh!!! Boy this thread started at 09:47 and now it is 15:15 and already 1000 views and 80

replies.
This surely says how people are obsessed about Fiat. I am sure this would not have been the case if we were discussing about Mahindra or GM or Maruti or Tata for that matter.

Amit

Your post was #62.

amitpunjani · 18th March 2008, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by prabuddhadg

Your post was #62.

Do apologize

. But that till says alot 62 replies within so short span of time with so many views.

extreme_torque · 18th March 2008, 15:59

The first mistake FIAT did was to think that a product speaks for itself and secondly launching a product ahead of its time worked horribly wrong for FIAT. You see when Palio was launched the only other hatches were the Zen or the Santro or the Wagon R and they would average more than Palio for sure under any circumstance. There were no swifts, no getz coupled with lack of marketing that resulting in the low fuel efficiency stories getting credibility from all and sundry. Some of the technologies that were released later on by other car makers with much noise were already there in Palio years back, like the 32 bit micro-processor, Double crank prevention system. Worse, so confident were FIAT of Palio that they didnt even care to re-calibrate the odo from the Brazilian version to the Indian version. These are basic mistakes that cost FIAT dearly, apart from teh A.S.S fiasco. Though I must mention regular consumables have never been a problem neither is the spare parts cost.

Jeep · 18th March 2008, 16:03

Brazilians may be buying Fiat cars in numbers, for their own reasons. It's similar to the fact that Hyundai is being hated in US while it is accepted in India.

My views:
1. Their flagship Palio is a 'premium hatch' in India - a niche segment. You need to really show value to someone to pay that extra money to buy something without a 'boot'. (well, things are changing now, with the success of swift)
2. The thread initiator mentioned that there are not many fiat owners who are unhappy (which is not true). Also, someone else mentioned that others are bashing fiat but in their hearts they would love to own one (I beg to differ, people may want to take a Palio for a drive, but not want to own one)
3. The price that you pay for that ride quality and driving experience is way too much (poor A.S.S., expensive parts, low mileage, lack of availability of spares, INCONSISTENT QUALITY etc)

p.s. I have learnt driving in a Padmini and have driven quite a lot in late 80s' and 90's. The driving experience was good but back seat was not comfortable. Dad used to maintain it in top condition so we never had any problems with it

Will I buy a fiat in India? May be. If it is a diesel, then I may buy a new one (only after the A.S.S. has improved and resale values have improved). If it is a petrol, then definitely I will go tothe used car market

tez · 18th March 2008, 16:08

boy o boy, only one brand invokes such feelings from the members, be it bashers or fans. I never have seen such feelings for Hyundais , marutis or tatas

spadival · 18th March 2008, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddy

I do not think thats the case. Read this. A pretty recent example of Fiats "service"
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ab-motors.html

Well.. As I said, experience differ from person to person at any given time regardless of the brand. Take the Metro Ford "crash tested A.S.S" case or the Tata Sumo/Indica "Lemon" cases that has been reported here on the forum. Has those cases been cited to stop people from buying a Ford or a Tata vehicle?

There was a time when the Maruti A.S.S forgot to re-fill the engine oil after draining it during routine service of our Maruti Van. Did that stop me from buying a Maruti again - Hell no !!

My experience with Fiat has been good. Many moons ago, I needed the car for a solo 800Km journey from Vizag to Chennai and the car was sitting in the Fiat A.S.S for getting the temp sensor replaced. Fiat intervened and got the part couriered all the way from the Hyd dealer to the Vizag dealer and the car given back to me on time for the journey.

Steeroid · 18th March 2008, 16:19

I just found one more reason why I would not buy a Fiat - my father just threw the idea out.

extreme_torque · 18th March 2008, 16:20

Talking about A.S.S, I found Honda service to be pathetic. They were plain arrogant. I landed up at ring road honda's service station with my friend only to be shooed away saying you need to have an appointment for service first!!!! A bit of shouting and some #^#$$^, they let us in. After leaving the car for service we found out that there is no car drop serivce, they werent even ready to drop us at the nearest auto rickshaw stand!
Maruti A.S.S at times go out of the way to help you out and in my friend's case they dropped him to office after he left is car for serivce and needed to go to office urgently. No wonder Maruti sells but Honda..... argh!!!!

srishiva · 18th March 2008, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

The first mistake FIAT did was to think that a product speaks for itself and secondly launching a product ahead of its time worked horribly wrong for FIAT. You see when Palio was launched the only other hatches were the Zen or the Santro or the Wagon R and they would average more than Palio for sure under any circumstance. There were no swifts, no getz coupled with lack of marketing that resulting in the low fuel efficiency stories getting credibility from all and sundry. Some of the technologies that were released later on by other car makers with much noise were already there in Palio years back, like the 32 bit micro-processor, Double crank prevention system. Worse, so confident were FIAT of Palio that they didnt even care to re-calibrate the odo from the Brazilian version to the Indian version. These are basic mistakes that cost FIAT dearly, apart from teh A.S.S fiasco. Though I must mention regular consumables have never been a problem neither is the spare parts cost.

I thought first to market is a big advantage. Technology, 32 bit microprocessor ? You think that would be a differentiator. What real advantage did it bring ? Low FE ? (according to you).

And Honda doesn't sell for you.

amit · 18th March 2008, 16:35

Let me jump in here with my expereince in After sales service with Fiat and Maruti. I think I am qualified to talk about after sales service since I have experience with supposedly the best (Maruti) and the worst (Fiat and/or Tata-Fiat) companies.

Maruti

My problems with the SX4 are well known on this forum. Both Vitesse and S.K. have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Having done two services I can say that as long as the dealers have to do routine services, everything is okay but when it comes to diagnosing the problem, Maruti dealers are as good or as bad as any other. They all keep harping on "This is EPS and that is how it is designed" line.

The good thing about Maruti service is the look and feel of their service centers and the friendliness of the staff. The staff is willing to listen to you and if you make a noise, they take you VERY seriously. This effect, I believe, trickles down from the company. Because Maruti takes customer's and customer complaints VERY seriously, the dealers do the same too. When I faxed a complaint to Maruti, they were extremely quick to respond to me. A service engineer was arranged to be sent to a dealership of my choice at my conviniant time. I was having problems with Vitesse and told Maruti that I don't want to take my car there anymore and the engineer should come to S.K. The day my car had to be checked at S.K. the service manager from Vitesse also drove down all the way from Worli to Vashi. The official line was that he took self initiative and came down to see if my car was attended to properly. Irrespective of whether it was his initiative or Maruti's arm-twisting, it was a very good gesture. Of course, nothing came out of the service engineer's visit as the car was found to be behaving normal. But, the service engineer, Vitesse service manager and S.K. Customer care manager were with me for almost 3 hours and offered a test drive on their demo SX4 and any other EPS equipped car if I wanted. To their advantage, even the demo SX4 behaved the same way as my car so their arguement that the car is normal had more weight

.

If I had a similar problem in my Palio would Fiat have taken the same pains? Seeing their track record, I don't think so.

Fiat Service.

I am among the few that found Fiat's service better then TATA-Fiat's but that could be because of lower volumes at Fiat exclusive dealerships. Anuroop was simply the best and I rate them higher then even Hyundai dealers. Of course, there was never any issue in my Palio so my only experience was doing routine servicing. The common thing between Maruti dealers and Fiat dealers was that the service advisors were with me when I went to pick up the car post service. Maruti service advisor at S.K. saw me off till I drove off in my car, Anuroop service advisor walked me to the car and as soon as I opened the door, he wished me bye.

Tata-Fiat Service.

Wasan and Fortune. Less said about Fortune the better. Wasan fairs marginally better. I got my Palio serviced on Friday. No complaints apart from routine service so can't say about their repair capablity. Big problem was in the attitude. I had a 9.40 appointment, service advisor attended to me at 10.30 am! Other advisors were sitting and chatting but refused to attend to me because "Vinod is your assigned service advisor, sir." If Vinod was busy with another customer, it was fine but at least he should come and tell me that he will be with me shortly. When I went to pick up the car, Vinod was nowhere to be seen. I had no idea where the car was , where to find the keys, what to do etc. When I put that down in the feedback form, a woman picked it up and Vinod appeared suddenly explaining the job done, fluids changed etc. After that he requested me to change the feedback form. I didn't. Why? Because, I believe these things should be done because thats how customer service should be. Not because a adverse customer remark will lower your CSI scores. To be fair, Maruti service advisors are the same.

Spares Avaliablity

My Palio hasn't needed too many spares. It hasnt had an accident so I never had to order non fast running spares. But, I have had problems sourcing the S10 specific muffler. Mind you, dealers have always had GTX mufflers in stock, it's the S10 mufflers that Fiat has forgotten. Twice fortune placed a order for the S10 muffler and both the times Fiat sent them the GTX mufflers even though their dealer had GTX mufflers in stock. Apart from this little blip, I have had no problems. But, it's irritating that Fiat has forgotten the S10. The car looks weird shod with the GTX muffler.

extreme_torque · 18th March 2008, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by srishiva

I thought first to market is a big advantage. Technology, 32 bit microprocessor ? You think that would be a differentiator. What real advantage did it bring ? Low FE ? (according to you).

Yes it works but there was absolutely no marketing telling people that its a B+ segment hatch and not the regular small Indian small car. People were not ready to accept a small car with that sort of FE numbers, no matter how good it was, people needed to be told which FIAT never did. To me a car weighing more than a tonne with a 120cc engine giving 11-13 kmpl in city is not at all bad, for many it wasnt good enough unless and until they knew what were the inherent strenghts of the product. We all know how aware the Indian car buying consumer is? We follow the crowd....

Quote:

Originally Posted by srishiva

And Honda doesn't sell for you.

You got me wrong there.... Its no wonder Maruti Sells.... but Why Honda with such pathetic service and arrogance.
OFF TOPIC: But given an option I would pick up Fiesta 1.6 over any City variant, the Ford is a wonderful driver's car.

suman · 18th March 2008, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit

Let me jump in here with my expereince in After sales service with Fiat and Maruti. I think I am qualified to talk about after sales service since I have experience with supposedly the best (Maruti) and the worst (Fiat and/or Tata-Fiat) companies.

Amit, excellent perspectives. But doesn't address the basic question does it?

By the way, not unexpectedly, I see a few Suzuki fans jump in and pick up other's comments & repeat them as reasons for not buying.

You'd think people would have some originality

Nothing2looz · 18th March 2008, 16:59

Why would you not buy FIAT?

I would have put it as why shouldnt i buy another FIAT?

I would buy another FIAT soon. Waiting for the Linea in September.

Our Palio Stile 1.1 SLX(16000 km in 11 months) and Petra D ELX (96000km in 3.7 yrs) have been great. We have had no service issues with the A.S.S (Concorde in Chennai)

Customer service has been good and call Chandrasekar in Concorde sales and you will find that he is as good, if not better than, anyother sales guy.

FE - Petra - 17 kmpl on highways and 15kmpl in bangalore
Palio - 13.5 in chennai city

I have nothing to complain.

18th March 2008, 15:59	#65
extreme_torque BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 4,461 Thanked: 5,535 Times	The first mistake FIAT did was to think that a product speaks for itself and secondly launching a product ahead of its time worked horribly wrong for FIAT. You see when Palio was launched the only other hatches were the Zen or the Santro or the Wagon R and they would average more than Palio for sure under any circumstance. There were no swifts, no getz coupled with lack of marketing that resulting in the low fuel efficiency stories getting credibility from all and sundry. Some of the technologies that were released later on by other car makers with much noise were already there in Palio years back, like the 32 bit micro-processor, Double crank prevention system. Worse, so confident were FIAT of Palio that they didnt even care to re-calibrate the odo from the Brazilian version to the Indian version. These are basic mistakes that cost FIAT dearly, apart from teh A.S.S fiasco. Though I must mention regular consumables have never been a problem neither is the spare parts cost.
	() Thanks

18th March 2008, 16:03	#66
Jeep BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 442 Thanked: 67 Times	Brazilians may be buying Fiat cars in numbers, for their own reasons. It's similar to the fact that Hyundai is being hated in US while it is accepted in India. My views: 1. Their flagship Palio is a 'premium hatch' in India - a niche segment. You need to really show value to someone to pay that extra money to buy something without a 'boot'. (well, things are changing now, with the success of swift) 2. The thread initiator mentioned that there are not many fiat owners who are unhappy (which is not true). Also, someone else mentioned that others are bashing fiat but in their hearts they would love to own one (I beg to differ, people may want to take a Palio for a drive, but not want to own one) 3. The price that you pay for that ride quality and driving experience is way too much (poor A.S.S., expensive parts, low mileage, lack of availability of spares, INCONSISTENT QUALITY etc) p.s. I have learnt driving in a Padmini and have driven quite a lot in late 80s' and 90's. The driving experience was good but back seat was not comfortable. Dad used to maintain it in top condition so we never had any problems with it Will I buy a fiat in India? May be. If it is a diesel, then I may buy a new one (only after the A.S.S. has improved and resale values have improved). If it is a petrol, then definitely I will go tothe used car market
	() Thanks

18th March 2008, 16:08	#67
tez BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: pune Posts: 381 Thanked: 16 Times	boy o boy, only one brand invokes such feelings from the members, be it bashers or fans. I never have seen such feelings for Hyundais , marutis or tatas
	() Thanks

18th March 2008, 16:19	#69
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,025 Thanked: 2,757 Times	I just found one more reason why I would not buy a Fiat - my father just threw the idea out.
	() Thanks

18th March 2008, 16:20	#70
extreme_torque BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 4,461 Thanked: 5,535 Times	Talking about A.S.S, I found Honda service to be pathetic. They were plain arrogant. I landed up at ring road honda's service station with my friend only to be shooed away saying you need to have an appointment for service first!!!! A bit of shouting and some #^#$$^, they let us in. After leaving the car for service we found out that there is no car drop serivce, they werent even ready to drop us at the nearest auto rickshaw stand! Maruti A.S.S at times go out of the way to help you out and in my friend's case they dropped him to office after he left is car for serivce and needed to go to office urgently. No wonder Maruti sells but Honda..... argh!!!! Last edited by extreme_torque : 18th March 2008 at 16:21.
	() Thanks

18th March 2008, 15:22	#62
amitpunjani BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 451 Thanked: 109 Times	ohh!!! Boy this thread started at 09:47 and now it is 15:15 and already 1000 views and 80 replies. This surely says how people are obsessed about Fiat. I am sure this would not have been the case if we were discussing about Mahindra or GM or Maruti or Tata for that matter. Amit
	() Thanks

18th March 2008, 16:35	#72
amit Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 3,712 Thanked: 451 Times	Let me jump in here with my expereince in After sales service with Fiat and Maruti. I think I am qualified to talk about after sales service since I have experience with supposedly the best (Maruti) and the worst (Fiat and/or Tata-Fiat) companies. Maruti My problems with the SX4 are well known on this forum. Both Vitesse and S.K. have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Having done two services I can say that as long as the dealers have to do routine services, everything is okay but when it comes to diagnosing the problem, Maruti dealers are as good or as bad as any other. They all keep harping on "This is EPS and that is how it is designed" line. The good thing about Maruti service is the look and feel of their service centers and the friendliness of the staff. The staff is willing to listen to you and if you make a noise, they take you VERY seriously. This effect, I believe, trickles down from the company. Because Maruti takes customer's and customer complaints VERY seriously, the dealers do the same too. When I faxed a complaint to Maruti, they were extremely quick to respond to me. A service engineer was arranged to be sent to a dealership of my choice at my conviniant time. I was having problems with Vitesse and told Maruti that I don't want to take my car there anymore and the engineer should come to S.K. The day my car had to be checked at S.K. the service manager from Vitesse also drove down all the way from Worli to Vashi. The official line was that he took self initiative and came down to see if my car was attended to properly. Irrespective of whether it was his initiative or Maruti's arm-twisting, it was a very good gesture. Of course, nothing came out of the service engineer's visit as the car was found to be behaving normal. But, the service engineer, Vitesse service manager and S.K. Customer care manager were with me for almost 3 hours and offered a test drive on their demo SX4 and any other EPS equipped car if I wanted. To their advantage, even the demo SX4 behaved the same way as my car so their arguement that the car is normal had more weight . If I had a similar problem in my Palio would Fiat have taken the same pains? Seeing their track record, I don't think so. Fiat Service. I am among the few that found Fiat's service better then TATA-Fiat's but that could be because of lower volumes at Fiat exclusive dealerships. Anuroop was simply the best and I rate them higher then even Hyundai dealers. Of course, there was never any issue in my Palio so my only experience was doing routine servicing. The common thing between Maruti dealers and Fiat dealers was that the service advisors were with me when I went to pick up the car post service. Maruti service advisor at S.K. saw me off till I drove off in my car, Anuroop service advisor walked me to the car and as soon as I opened the door, he wished me bye. Tata-Fiat Service. Wasan and Fortune. Less said about Fortune the better. Wasan fairs marginally better. I got my Palio serviced on Friday. No complaints apart from routine service so can't say about their repair capablity. Big problem was in the attitude. I had a 9.40 appointment, service advisor attended to me at 10.30 am! Other advisors were sitting and chatting but refused to attend to me because "Vinod is your assigned service advisor, sir." If Vinod was busy with another customer, it was fine but at least he should come and tell me that he will be with me shortly. When I went to pick up the car, Vinod was nowhere to be seen. I had no idea where the car was , where to find the keys, what to do etc. When I put that down in the feedback form, a woman picked it up and Vinod appeared suddenly explaining the job done, fluids changed etc. After that he requested me to change the feedback form. I didn't. Why? Because, I believe these things should be done because thats how customer service should be. Not because a adverse customer remark will lower your CSI scores. To be fair, Maruti service advisors are the same. Spares Avaliablity My Palio hasn't needed too many spares. It hasnt had an accident so I never had to order non fast running spares. But, I have had problems sourcing the S10 specific muffler. Mind you, dealers have always had GTX mufflers in stock, it's the S10 mufflers that Fiat has forgotten. Twice fortune placed a order for the S10 muffler and both the times Fiat sent them the GTX mufflers even though their dealer had GTX mufflers in stock. Apart from this little blip, I have had no problems. But, it's irritating that Fiat has forgotten the S10. The car looks weird shod with the GTX muffler. Last edited by amit : 18th March 2008 at 16:49.
	() Thanks

18th March 2008, 16:59	#75
Nothing2looz Newbie Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 9 Thanked: 0 Times	Why would you not buy FIAT? I would have put it as why shouldnt i buy another FIAT? I would buy another FIAT soon. Waiting for the Linea in September. Our Palio Stile 1.1 SLX(16000 km in 11 months) and Petra D ELX (96000km in 3.7 yrs) have been great. We have had no service issues with the A.S.S (Concorde in Chennai) Customer service has been good and call Chandrasekar in Concorde sales and you will find that he is as good, if not better than, anyother sales guy. FE - Petra - 17 kmpl on highways and 15kmpl in bangalore Palio - 13.5 in chennai city I have nothing to complain.
	() Thanks