[finneyp]

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

If people who own FIAT are really happy, then such a thread would not have come up.

You got it wrong!
Fiat owners are pretty happy, it is mostly who don't own a Fiat cribbing & bashing Fiat all the time!

However, Fiat India need to question themselves again & again why are Fiat cars not selling in numbers though their Cars are superior than the competitors?
As kvish pointed out, it has to do with the negative perception of Fiat in people's minds, they need to further spruce up their Service network, make uncommon spares readily available & agressively market thier proven Cars!

I drove the 1.2 palio for over 2yrs. loved it. then my brother crashed it- it was out of commission for 2 months. then my dad crashed it and it was out of commission for another 2. we did'nt suffer much because there always was a spare car in the family.

the crashes were not severe. but getting the parts were a nightmare. they would send 1 suspension component in from blore, we'd find out that there were 4 different models for the same auto component, find out that the one they'd sent did'nt match the car, and we'd send it back and wait another week to get the part that fitted.

sometimes,even that didnt happen.parts were not available. period!

everytime we went in to enquire about the car, we would have to deal with TVS in cochin(which was run by REJECTS FROM HELL)

I loved the car, and i still want a palio, because it was brilliant, but I dont love it enough to pay money, buy it and then be insulted by uneducated people running the service centres.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by finneyp

You got it wrong!
Fiat owners are pretty happy, it is mostly who don't own a Fiat cribbing & bashing Fiat all the time!

However, Fiat India need to question themselves again & again why are Fiat cars not selling in numbers though their Cars are superior than the competitors?
As kvish pointed out, it has to do with the negative perception of Fiat in people's minds, they need to further spruce up their Service network (so its a fact), make uncommon spares readily available ( a fact) & agressively market thier proven Cars!

Then why is it just a perception ? A car with no good service network, no spares available is what ? A proven car ??

[rao_battula]

Originally Posted by amtak

People said it gives less mileage! Bhaiyya agar 100 BHP car loge toh 10 kms hi milega na? and its built like a tank (6 litres/km!)

I had same reply from service guy when I was talking about mileage of my Adventure.

I would not purchase a FIAT again if their A.S.S is not improved.

-BSR

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by finneyp

You got it wrong!
Fiat owners are pretty happy, it is mostly who don't own a Fiat cribbing & bashing Fiat all the time!

However, Fiat India need to question themselves again & again why are Fiat cars not selling in numbers though their Cars are superior than the competitors?
As kvish pointed out, it has to do with the negative perception of Fiat in people's minds, they need to further spruce up their Service network, make uncommon spares readily available & agressively market thier proven Cars!

You may be right that Fiat has a superior product and their owners pretty happy. It is only the perception. But then, most people are not buying a shampoo priced at Rs. 90 used in a month but a car that costs Rs. 3 lakhs and above and to be used for 5 years and more. A Fiat customer is by definition middle class, perhaps buying a car for the first time, or upgrading from a bike, or worst for Fiat (upgrading from a 800). For that customer, extra-normal money spent on a car can ruin his budget. For others with money to spare, there is always a Fiat or as in my case, a Corsa.

[finneyp]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Then why is it just a perception ? A car with no good service network, no spares available is what ? A proven car ??

Mr.Srishiva, please understand that a Car and After sales service are two different aspects.
It is well known fact that Fiat makes Excellent Cars but their Service in India is not upto the mark!

[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by finneyp

Mr.Srishiva, please understand that a Car and After sales service are two different aspects.
It is well known fact that Fiat makes Excellent Cars but their Service in India is not upto the mark!

Agreed, but owning a car is as much about the product as teh after sales service. After all, you buy the car only once, any experiece teh A.S.S. over the entire period that you own the car.

having owned a palio once and burnt my fingers with their pathetic A.S.S., i will never buy a fiat again, no matter how much they improve.

the sales and service outlets are the only interface a company has with the customers, and if Fiat feel that it is not worth investing in improving these, then that says a lot about the attitude of the company. what good is a brilliant product if the consumer does not have an equally brilliant ownership experience?

that is why Toyota is the number one car manufacturer in the world today, not becuase their product is brilliant(most are) or the service is brilliant, but because a combination of the two givers a great experience to the customer.

you cannot divorce one from the other and look at each in isolation.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by finneyp

You got it wrong!
Fiat owners are pretty happy, it is mostly who don't own a Fiat cribbing & bashing Fiat all the time!

However, Fiat India need to question themselves again & again why are Fiat cars not selling in numbers though their Cars are superior than the competitors?
As kvish pointed out, it has to do with the negative perception of Fiat in people's minds, they need to further spruce up their Service network, make uncommon spares readily available & agressively market thier proven Cars!

Please speak for yourself. We are desperately trying to get rid of our 1.2
Not even getting 80K for a 2002 car.
When we bought it new the FE was 4-5kmpl in city. Nothing to do with driving style, since the Matiz gives 12kmpl in city, and safari 3.0 gives 12kmpl in city too with the same drivers.
Went to service center multiple times and they practically shooed us away
Got it converted to LPG a year back(certified kit and all), and after that it started seeing some running.

Just because 10 people here say its a great car, does not make it exceptional.
And I find it extremely funny, when people say "Its a great car, but bad service network let it down".
thats all this thread is about. Its not about the Palio, or what Fiat India may launch. Its about FIAT as a company.
This thread is about "Why you will not buy a FIAT", and not about "I am very happy with my Palio"

As for car being superior to competitors, having a good build quality does not make a vehicle superior. Its a decade old design.

People do not buy just the car, unless its a restored Nissan Skyline GTR.
when somebody puts in hard earned money, and is offered 80K after just 5 years of ownership on a car which cost 4L, something is seriously wrong.

Go through this
Team-BHP - The Definitive Indian Car Community - Test Drives
This is a culmination of reviews given by FIAT owners.
Rattles, Starter motor, niggling problems etc., etc.,

I came across a review by a very happy owner of FIAT 1.2
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...000-kms-2.html
It was two years ago at 11000kms

Shouldn't we get an update?
I have met many disgrunted X-Fiat owners on this forum, who no longer buy Fiat and have vowed never too.
It will be great if the extremely happy FIAT owners also write about their car, and how is the A.S.S. treating them.

As for this thread, its not about whether the Palio a good car, great car or a rotten car.
Its about FIAT India, and how much do you trust that brand.
Are you ready to put in 5L rupees in this brand anymore?

If not why not.

[PatienceWins]

I like Fiat cars for their build quality, space and driving pleasure. There is no doubt that Fiat gives value for money compared to other manufacturers.

But I am disappointed with:
1. After Sales Support is pathetic. Waiting for parts to arrive while servicing the car is a bad experience. I am hoping that the TATA alliance will makes things better in the long term.
2. The build quality seems to have taken a beating after the alliance with TATA.
3. Even though FIAT has great models, they are not bringing them to India.

[prabuddhadg]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

..... 1.1 and 1.6 are extentions of a five year old powerplant, and that too a step in the wrong direction for the former
Its hard to praise a manufacturer, when this is the level of commitment towards the fastest growing
market in the world(one of the fastest anyways).

Can't fully agree with you on that. I think that the 1.1 and the 1.6 are now much more clearly aimed at distinctly different target car owners. Out of the thousands of car owners in the country, how many are enthusiasts? And how many are bhp'ians? There are enough car owners who are interested in the great ride of the Palio, but are worried about the fuel consumption.

So, if someone can't handle a 10kmpl FE, he will definitely take a lot of interest in the 1.1. So, I think it is a step in the right direction. And now with the MJD, things are getting even better in terms of the cost conscious but also comfort and safety seeking car owner.

I know, looking at history, (Tendulkar launching the car years back) it could all come to naught, but from the steps taken till now, I have to admit, that extrapolating from now, does make the future for Fiat seem bright.

[jobint]

Fiat is not a household name in India like Maruthi or Hyundai(2 or 3 yrs old kid can identify a maruthi/santro). They need to market their products well . Many customers in India are bothered about the brand they are buying. If ones neighbour bought a santro, they too want to buy the same without even thinking whether its suitable or not.

I own a Fiat and when I bought Palio stile 1.6, many asked me why Palio, its mileage is poor, bad service etc... I think many are not aware of the Tata-Fiat tie-up. There are even people who can't even remember a Fiat/Palio brand. (One person asked me this question too: "Is there any such car in india", I told him that i imported it directly from Italy :-))

Another aspect I am seeing is their poor service. When Palio was first launched in India, if I am correct, they were selling 3000+ car each month. Then came the mileage issue and poor service which made a huge dent on the brand image. And after that Palio owners itself not recommending palio for others due to poor service.

Fiat needs to imporve these two at any cost if they want a decent customer base in India.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

In US, Fiat did sell the notorious Yugo Tempo. Tales about the Yugo are many and legendary.

No @vasudeva. Fiat disappeared from North America in the early 1980s.

International dealmaker Armand Hammer picked the small Zastava Koral made in Kragujevac, Serbia, as a model that could be exported to USA.

Yugo America, a company set up by Malcolm Bricklin (International Automobile Importers, USA), required 500 changes made to the car, to suit the US market. Yugo set up a special export production line in Serbia.

The car debuted in the US market in 1986 at under $4000. Initially it sold well, but due to UN sanctions on Yugoslavia in 1990, the car was withdrawn from the US market. The brand Yugo got a very bad reputation in the USA.

Bricklin then tried to import Chinese Chery cars into USA, but the Chinese asked Bricklin for funding to up-spec their cars to US standards. No funding came and Bricklin now develops electric cars with help from US universities.

[MaserQ]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Its simple economics.
When a car sells very low numbers the availability of parts gets rare.

And the prices are higher as well. No economies of scale.

Originally Posted by pjbiju

Let me list my reasons for not buying a Fiat car myself.

• Poor after sales support. When I bought my swift two years back, Fiat's sales were extremely low and there was no way to guess if the company would pack and go or stay on. So prudence won over the merits of the car.
• Delayed launch of new models. When other manufacturers are launching cars in India at the same time as (or soon after) their global launches, Fiat is not doing that. Hence the fear of buying into old models.
• Poor resale value of Fiat cars (because of the above two reasons). People who buy a hatch as their first car would definitely be concerned about resale value.
• When the Palio Stile was launched, I guess they should have given it a new and fresh looking dashboard (not just offering it in a beige color) and interiors.

In a nutshell, I think Fiat is doing too little too late to show that they care for their customers. Great products with poor sales and support (like my Braun mixer grinder - great product and no support now )

Precisely. Well summarised biju.

Originally Posted by ram

The whole point of owning a Fiat is to learn to maintain it all on your own.

Better still, if you own a garage and a parts fabrication plant!!

Years ago, my dad had put down an advance when the booking for the Uno had started. When he decided to cancel because of the numerous delays, the advance money wasnt returned. In fact, a whole bunch of people got together and threatened legal action. In the end it took then a few years to get it back.

Lets be honest and forget the product for a moment. If you had to fight a company for a few years to get what is rightfully yours, would you in your right senses ever trust them again?? It would take years of re-building...and that doesnt happen with shoddy A.S.S, non-availiability/high prices of spares and neglecting customers.

If anything, they are busy hammering the last nails in their own coffin. I am sorry, but there is no other way to put this. And no, I am no Fiat basher and I would love to buy the GP if Fiat gets their act together.

Coming back, my dad cancelled the Uno and went for the Esteem at that time. Eight years of trouble free ownership. Good product, great service, good re-sale value. Peace of mind.

[normally_crazy]

Originally Posted by finneyp

I can say for Fiat India:
1. Alliance with Tata Motors for Sales and Service.

Good thing but who will benefit more ? FIAT or TATA , that's still debatable

2. Investing crores at the new plant at Rajnandgaon (Pune).

Why not invest a few lakhs first and improve the A.S.S centres ? Why can't FIAT take a leaf out of Hyundai's book ? Hyundai had A.S.S's all over the country before they launched the Santro.

3. Manufacture of MJD engines at Rajnandgaon.

After MUL beat them to it and made a best seller out of the Swift D ? If only FIAT had the fore sight to launch their own product before a competitor did !!

4. Slew of launches in the next two years - G Punto, Linea, Bravo & 500 (the last two will be CBU.)

Exactly why they need service centres of repute. As the cars get more advanced and better the service centres too have to be on their feet. And that is the place where most of FIAT's problems are arising.

[PatienceWins]

Originally Posted by finneyp

Mr.Srishiva, please understand that a Car and After sales service are two different aspects.
It is well known fact that Fiat makes Excellent Cars but their Service in India is not upto the mark!

I do not agree with this. When we buy a car, we are getting into a relationship with the company that manufactures the car. The ownership experience becomes horrible when you do not get after sales support from the company. Nobody would prefer to have a great car and spend sleepless nights thinking about it.


Its painful to see great products getting doomed because of the attitude of the company in question, FIAT.

In this thread, we are not evaluating the products from FIAT, but FIAT. If a brand provides technologically advanced products without after sales support, people would not prefer the brand.