[shortbread]

I dont know what people are getting so excited about. For the 'premium Toyota' to start chewing away German sales figures they will have to price them at least 15% cheaper. Other than the ISF they dont have a single exciting model in their line up.

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by shortbread

I dont know what people are getting so excited about. For the 'premium Toyota' to start chewing away German sales figures they will have to price them at least 15% cheaper. Other than the ISF they dont have a single exciting model in their line up.

If you follow their US prices, Lexus are priced lower than Germans with way more features and comes with superior reliability. Driving pleasure is superior in Germans but they can't match on reliability.

Note:I am talking from my personal experience since I own Merc 220 CDI in India and BMW 550i in USA, and have driven Lexus extensively as my immediate family owns couple of them.

[S350L-E240]

Firstly, I would take articles like this with a pinch of salt because there have at various points been instances where this has cropped up, but if it is true then great as some of the cars offered by Lexus do make a wonderful proposition for our roads esp in terms of comfort.

Without trying to make comparisons one thing is they will have to get in to an aggresive pricing mode considering toyota's landcruiser is pretty much over priced and at that price where will it leave the similar lexus models?

Another thing they will have to appoint seperate showroom spaces even if the dealers are the same as no way would you want to send your LS for service next to the Liva (not saying liva is a bad car)

Lastly, now that almost every luxury car maker is here and in a grand manner they will have to ensure some models come in via ckd / skd route or else they will just have a small pie of the markets as cbu's cannot be competetive overall.

But well if all is planned and they are truly coming in, a big welcome from my side.

Regards,

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by SunilM

The company officials said Lexus could be retailed by separate dealerships. "Traditionally, Toyota does not share dealer network with Lexus. However, we cannot be too sure about India as it is too early now," Singh said.

Better for a posh brand. Who would like to share lounge with taxi-wallas when they pay a bomb for the car. When the logo itself is different, it makes all the more sense to have a differentiation in all levels.

Originally Posted by shortbread

I dont know what people are getting so excited about. For the 'premium Toyota' to start chewing away German sales figures they will have to price them at least 15% cheaper.

The pricing is completely up to the company. They should be doing there ground work well before doing something like this. We customers anyway don't mind some extra competition, do we? [I will be way too happy if we could get the BMWs or Merc to drop the prices of their cars by 5L odd, especially on the 3 & 5 series / equivalents]

By the way, can anyone let me know whats the difference between Infiniti and Lexus? Is it that these are just two brands which belongs to Toyota?

OT:: I never knew Infiniti also belonged to Toyota!

[shortbread]

Infiniti is owned by Nissan, and are actually a more interesting alternative than Lexus or Acura (hondas with uglier bumpers). They look more interesting, have classy interiors and dynamically quite capable. Soon they will have diesel options as well.

But the biggest problem is these pseudo luxury Jap alternatives dont have the street cred or reputation of the German rivals or even Jaguar. Everyone knows that they are wannabes rather than the real deal. Everytime I see someone driving these Jap options one gets the feeling the driver could not afford the real deal.

But agree with you swiftnfurious, if they add to the competition and start a price war the customers will stand to benefit.

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Better for a posh brand. Who would like to share lounge with taxi-wallas when they pay a bomb for the car. When the logo itself is different, it makes all the more sense to have a differentiation in all levels.

By the way, can anyone let me know whats the difference between Infiniti and Lexus? Is it that these are just two brands which belongs to Toyota?

OT:: I never knew Infiniti also belonged to Toyota!

Infiniti is a premium brand of Nissan the way Lexus is for Toyota. Infiniti never belonged to Toyota.

As far as Lexus is concerned, I am pretty sure they will have stand alone showrooms as that is the model they are following world wide.

[SunilM]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

By the way, can anyone let me know whats the difference between Infiniti and Lexus? Is it that these are just two brands which belongs to Toyota?

OT:: I never knew Infiniti also belonged to Toyota!

From what I know,
Infiniti = Luxury Nissan
Lexus - Luxury Toyota

Originally Posted by shortbread

I dont know what people are getting so excited about. For the 'premium Toyota' to start chewing away German sales figures they will have to price them at least 15% cheaper. Other than the ISF they dont have a single exciting model in their line up.

There is a lot to get excited about this news. First, this gives a very solid alternative to German luxury cars we have in India today. As GTO would have said, the Japanese luxury cars are "boringly reliable". German cars may have a lot of other positives - reliability is not one of them. Who said luxury car buyers have a different yardstick for reliability, just because they can afford to spend a lot more on maintaining a car? There are lots of people like me who would pick a Lexus any day over a BMW. Waiting for GTO's take on this news - I know he loves Lexus!

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by shortbread

But the biggest problem is these pseudo luxury Jap alternatives dont have the street cred or reputation of the German rivals or even Jaguar. Everyone knows that they are wannabes rather than the real deal. Everytime I see someone driving these Jap options one gets the feeling the driver could not afford the real deal.

I don't agree with that. Maybe not in the UK but in the US people have as much respect for a Lexus as they do for a Bimmer or a Merc. Infact a little more for Lexus than for Infiniti, since Lexus is by far the most reliable of the Luxo brands.

And there is a $3000 difference in the base MSRP between an LS460 and a 740i, and I'm sure at that price the Lexus has more features. Don't know where you came up with that statement (in bold).

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Don't know where you came up with that statement (in bold).

I guess he was talking how he himself feels and was not a generic statement. To be frank I guess once people start seeing this brand as a Toyota subsidiary [sibling] , it might dilute the brand value. [In India I don't know how many people know Lexus as a brand from Toyota, the SEs might use the Toyota brand name to give potential customers a feel of what the car is like]. It might be a little too early for me to make this statement, but somehow I think this way.

Another point I have noted from multiple reads are that even Lexus are not driver's machines. So they have carried that typical Toyota DNA into these as well. Best in everything other than fun to drive! Why could not they address this too?!

A bullet proof reliability with driver oriented nature would have been the best combo !

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I guess he was talking how he himself feels and was not a generic statement. To be frank I guess once people start seeing this brand as a Toyota subsidiary [sibling] brand, it might lose its hype and brand value. It might be a little too early for me to make this statement, but somehow I think this way.

I think Lexus is well enough known to do well. Most people already know its a Toyota owned brand. There are enough of Lexus SUVs on our streets.

BTW the second part of his statement said "one gets the feeling the driver could not afford the real deal". Unless my comprehension skills aren't too good its more of a generic statement than a personal statement because he said 'one'. Anyway if it was a personal statement then my apologies.

[SunilM]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

To be frank I guess once people start seeing this brand as a Toyota subsidiary [sibling] , it might dilute the brand value. [In India I don't know how many people know Lexus as a brand from Toyota].

That is precisely the reason Toyota takes great pain to keep these two brand identities separate, Showrooms are never shared, the Toyota logo is never used for lexus anywhere. It might be easier to do it in India, so not many people know they to belong to Toyota.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by SunilM

It might be easier to do it in India, so not many people know they to belong to Toyota.

My thoughts about this brand from a marketing / sales perspective. So what are they going to show as the USP for Lexus brand? Merc had a very early run the market and BMW scored over the FTD factor. I kind of feel that Audi lost the space since they didn't have anything of this sort [Interiors could be their USP, but its not really doing great on the sales part comparatively to the counterparts] .

To educate the potential customers, if the SEs give a hint that this is from "Toyota", would the car retain its brand value? I personally think any such references to the Toyota brand should be refrained from.

Anyway it will be worth to watch the marketing for this brand in India - might make for a case study too.

[chevelle]

From what i read on various websites like autoblog, average buyer of Lexus is much older than German brands. I think it stood around 57-60 years in 2007, i doubt it will have improved.

The general public opinion in USA is Lexus is a boring brand, for executives, for old people. This sentiment is shared with Cadillac, Lincoln and Jaguar.

Also, their cars are dull to drive, so we as an enthusiast may not appreciate the Lexus, but then there are many who do appreciate its supple ride, features, reliability. So there is definitely a market for Lexus. They should launch it asap and needless to say, get their own showroom.

[drmohitg]

Luxury or not luxury, Indians love toyota. I do not buy the arguement that if people get to know that its a toyota it will lose its luxury quotient. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a 6 month waiting for a 20+ lac basic SUV Fortuner. 20 lacs is luxury good enough.

[Mpower]

Even if its priced on par, the low maintenance cost and stronger resale value means cheaper overall life cycle cost.

Originally Posted by shortbread

Infiniti is owned by Nissan, and are actually a more interesting alternative than Lexus or Acura (hondas with uglier bumpers). They look more interesting, have classy interiors and dynamically quite capable. Soon they will have diesel options as well.

Maybe not in Europe, but in the states Lexus definetly has the street cred that matches up the German Big3. I would say its probably stronger brand than Audi. Infinity is catching up really really fast. They were kinda lost in the middle for a few years.