[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by shortbread

But the biggest problem is these pseudo luxury Jap alternatives dont have the street cred or reputation of the German rivals or even Jaguar. Everyone knows that they are wannabes rather than the real deal. Everytime I see someone driving these Jap options one gets the feeling the driver could not afford the real deal.

I disagree. It may be your own opinion, but certainly not the view of general public. Here in USA, Lexus has as good reputation as Merc and Beemer if not more and more than Infinitis and Acuras (Even they are not very far behind).

And FYI, Lexus sold more vehicles than BMW and Mercedes in year 2010 in USA despite the recalls.

[Ricky_63]

I know someone in close family who swears by Lexus. They change cars every 3 years irrespective of any & everything. And there is another example in CA where the 1998 Lexus has now finally been replaced with a Merc E 350, so from '98 to now which is pretty long it has clocked 2,00,000 & still was driving as good as new.

So much for the build quality of the Lexus



Cheers

[Sanjunair5]

Originally Posted by shortbread

But the biggest problem is these pseudo luxury Jap alternatives dont have the street cred or reputation of the German rivals or even Jaguar. Everyone knows that they are wannabes rather than the real deal. Everytime I see someone driving these Jap options one gets the feeling the driver could not afford the real deal.

That may not be correct. Lexus/Acura/Infinity may have been also ran luxury brands. But no longer, particularly Lexus. Infact Lexus sells more than BMW and Merc in the US. And Lexus isn't necessarily cheaper than BMWs and Mercs either. Also to be noted is, though still a division of Toyota, Lexus manages its design, engineering, manufacturing separately from Toyota and thus not building 'luxury editions' of Toyotas.
PS: I do not own a Lexus or work at Lexus

[lexusES350]

As a lexus owner myself, I can assure you lexus is a good enough car to drive. I like smooth transmission and soft suspensions than sporty ride with hard shifts. Everyone has their opinions on what is mean to be fun to drive but for me fun is to never know when the gear is changing and not hearing extensive road noise. Feeling of riding on air is also a "fun" that can be had with Lexus. I'm sure there are multiple others who share my opinion and lexus constantly sells more cars in US than any other luxury car maker for a reason. If and when they enter India and price the cars correctly, it is more than certain that lot of people will line up to buy their cars.

[shortbread]

To be honest the American bar when it comes to luxury cars is not that high. Along with Lexus the likes of Cadillac and Lincoln are considered to be premium brands, people wont touch them with a barge pole in rest of the world.

No doubt that Lexus are reliable (even after the recall, braking issues) and have a plush ride and are cheaper. Other than that they have nothing else to offer. For this reason alone Lexus sales are heavily dependent on the US and struggle everywhere else.

The Germans first of all have stronger brand image followed by more models, better ride & handling, better engine range - especially diesels and finally a more exciting range of cars like the TT, R8, M1,3&5, CL, CLS, SL, SLK, SLS.....There is something aspirational about these brands. For Lexus there is simply the ISF, please don't mention the LFA, that turned out to be a overpriced joke, more expensive than a 458 Italia or a Murcielago and not as good.

Take an example of a developing luxury market where Lexus sells....China, Audi outsells it by nearly 5:1. If Toyota pushes Lexus as a reliable and cheaper luxury proposition then yes there is potential. But they still do not garner the same respect as the German trio, even after being in the market for nearly quarter of a century.

[krreddy]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Infiniti is owned by Nissan, and are actually a more interesting alternative than Lexus or Acura (hondas with uglier bumpers). They look more interesting, have classy interiors and dynamically quite capable. Soon they will have diesel options as well.

But the biggest problem is these pseudo luxury Jap alternatives dont have the street cred or reputation of the German rivals or even Jaguar. Everyone knows that they are wannabes rather than the real deal. Everytime I see someone driving these Jap options one gets the feeling the driver could not afford the real deal.

But agree with you swiftnfurious, if they add to the competition and start a price war the customers will stand to benefit.

Have you even driven a Lexus before? As far as I am concerned, I've seen quite a lot of unhappy German car owners swearing to not go back after their service adventures. BTW the so called pseudo luxury Japanese alternatives ( especially Lexus) that you arrogantly claim will be a welcome sight for a lot of car enthusiasts in India.

[RS_DEL]

Originally Posted by shortbread

To be honest the American bar when it comes to luxury cars is not that high. Along with Lexus the likes of Cadillac and Lincoln are considered to be premium brands, people ...China, Audi outsells it by nearly 5:1. If Toyota pushes Lexus as a reliable and cheaper luxury proposition then yes there is potential. But they still do not garner the same respect as the German trio, even after being in the market for nearly quarter of a century.

You use the word "Respect". I do not think that is the right word to describe the reason for the preference of the German lux brand by a large number of the buyers.

What is more appropriate in the context of this thread is - the buyer's desire to /perception of making a statement that they have arrived in life, achieved some stature. One of my family members had the same inclination and plumped for a Q7 and a 4 litre one at that. His money his choice - from my point of view a LC200 no matter how overpriced it is perceived to be would have been a better spend, but then that's my opinion.

[hdus001]

Originally Posted by shortbread

For Lexus there is simply the ISF, please don't mention the LFA, that turned out to be a overpriced joke, more expensive than a 458 Italia or a Murcielago and not as good.

"Overpriced" is a relative term. The LFA's are sold out. To me that isnt an indication of overpriced.

(Report: Lexus LFA sold out — Autoblog)

[stanjohn123]

Originally Posted by lexusES350

As a lexus owner myself, I can assure you lexus is a good enough car to drive. I like smooth transmission and soft suspensions than sporty ride with hard shifts. Everyone has their opinions on what is mean to be fun to drive but for me fun is to never know when the gear is changing and not hearing extensive road noise. Feeling of riding on air is also a "fun" that can be had with Lexus. I'm sure there are multiple others who share my opinion and lexus constantly sells more cars in US than any other luxury car maker for a reason. If and when they enter India and price the cars correctly, it is more than certain that lot of people will line up to buy their cars.

You couldn't have said it better. Add to this their exceptional reliability record and we surely have a brand that can send shivers down Audi , BMW and Mercedes.

[stanjohn123]

Another important thing with Lexus is they have extensive improvements for all their models every year. Their cars get better every year even though they don't change the outward design that much. Case in point the Lexus IS-F. They should get this one in India.

[DicKy]

Of course wait till Lexus comes and silences the German lovers.
Don't mistake me, am a Merc fan boy and BMWs make cars that are straight out of my dreams(RWD,i6 engines,50:50), but come ownership and maintenance issues it's a money drain.
For test drivers and all they are a pleasure, but actual ownership is an altogether different affair.And if one wants driving pleasure then there is the Jap BMW-Infinti which happens to have diesel engines and is more actively studying the Indian market.
Lexus with a lone diesel engine and also not serious about the India market.
Guess we can stop this brand bashing till something concrete comes from Lexus about it's India plan.

[shortbread]

@hdus001,

When i said overpriced I meant that compared to competition machines with similar performance the LFA is far more expensive without any comparable benefits. Take for example the Audi V10 R8, its faster, a better every day car and costs just one third of the LFA!!

When Toyota announced this car everyone thought that this will be Lexus take on the legendary NSX, a superb and sensible alternative to the established sports makers and far better VFM. Instead they took nearly a whole decade and came up with a product that's not as good as its rivals but also far more expensive. Nelson Ireson gave an excellent review of this project.

Also please dont go by Toyota's press release, there are still unalloted LFAs out there and most reputed premium dealerships can source a new one:
Lexus LFA not sold out; U.S. allocation still available

[gthang]

The argument about Lexus's eligibility to tread into the hallowed grounds that the 3 holy ones control have been going on since the day they launched. But unhindered, Lexus continues to make excellent cars, give excellent service, and keep customers happy. The argument nonetheless continues. Good thing Lexus(Toyota) cares more about making good cars better than winning arguments.

Eagerly awaiting their entry to India.

Cheers.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by shortbread

@hdus001,
When i said overpriced I meant that compared to competition machines with similar performance the LFA is far more expensive without any comparable benefits. Take for example the Audi V10 R8, its faster, a better every day car and costs just one third of the LFA!!

And i know another thing called GT-R which eats R8 for breakfast and still cost half of it.
Sorry couldn't help not saying that.
Yeah, i agree on this part of the LF-A being long in the womb and also the ridiculous pricing but you can't say that it didn't sell well.
Maybe Lexus was testing the unknown sportscar market, and have to say that excluding the price they have done an excellent job that no one can find a fault with it and also say it's soulless(something which both the R8 and GT-R are guilty of. )
Also Toyota is selling each LF-A at a loss cause not withstanding the high price tag the development cost were too much,including a nice chunk of the budget going to make a soul stirring sound(the exhaust).

[Mpower]

Lexus is not appreciated in Europe for 2 reasons:

1. No diesels except the IS220D which is good but not the best engine around.
2. Focus on ride and NVH while ignoring handling and steering feel.

Point#1 will hurt them in India for sure but nevertheless the IS should do the bulk of the volumes.