Fiat India website is back.Currently under construction.

merve_extreme · 26th February 2005, 23:06

i think Shaman is listed because they may have a Ford showroom,but they must still be selling(or atleast servicing) Fiat cars.

lamborghini · 26th February 2005, 23:16

Hey merve,
thanx for telling everyone what i was going to say and have been saying in some threads.
When i called up shaman they said that they are still selling Fiat cars and i have seen a few of their ads recently in Bombay Times

GTO · 28th February 2005, 10:05

Merve,

I think all of this talk has got you confused. Well, no one is saying that Fiat does NOT WANT to be in India. Of course Fiat wants to be in India.

But the real question is...CAN THEY? Their sales are down to about 1% of the small car market, their brand value is lower than crap, they have only a handful of dealerships, the management still dont know what to do!!

Boy, is that their comeback strategy? Displaying their cars in a cobbler of a motor show? One ad in the times of India? And taking close to a month to restore their website? Even my office peon could come up with a better strategy for a dying company.

India is now an extremely competitive market, and Tata/Toyota/Hyundai/Maruti are already getting ready with their next generation B Segment offerings. Not only do they have the ready infrastructure and brand equity, but the Indian consumer trusts these four manufacturers with their eyes shut.

If Fiat couldnt make it in the early millenium, it is highly doubtful that they will make it to a highly competitive 2007. Where the automotive industry is going to be the best example of a Dog eat Dog world.

Wanting to be present in India is one thing. Having the capabilities to do so is an entirely different ballgame.

And yes, try not to be biased and ask people if they own Fiats in this discussion. Seeing that you own a Fiat Palio, I can understand your support toward Fiat India. Remember that Team-BHP is based on honest opinions...not being biased toward a company because of car ownership. I own a Mercedes but am the first to lambast them for their poor quality.

Most senior Team-BHPians will know of my love for the Palio and Petra. But the difference is....I keep my eyes open - And not in blind faith. Despite having the best product by far, the current sales do their bit to indicate what the consumer (the final authority) has to say about Fiat India.

GTO

hasopi · 28th February 2005, 10:15

http://fiat-india.com has this info now...

AN ANNOUNCEMENT

Fiat cars are on display at the Mumbai Motor Show, Bandra Kurla Complex, Mumbai. from the 25th to 28th Feb 2005.

Test Drive Facilities are also available at the Venue.

so is it a genuine FIAT India site..????

maybach · 28th February 2005, 12:51

A few dealers have packed up thought.. the dealer in Nerul Akshar Fiat has now turned into Piaggo.. some Autorickshaw manufacture

merve_extreme · 28th February 2005, 22:29

Common man GTO,i never said anything that makes me confused.all i said was that the info i post makes better sense for Fiat owners and people intending to buy one than to people not owning Fiat cars.

What ur saying is "what are they doing to staying in India?" and i am saying they are not leaving just yet.so it makes completly differnt arguments.it makes no sense to talk of a company leaving the country when they are trying to stay on IMO.secondly i bought a Palio because i know Fiat makes better cars than Maruti,hyundai and tata IMO.it is not that i love fiat because i have a palio,i bought one because i like fiat cars.

psp62in · 1st March 2005, 01:31

Hi GTO,
Have you ever wondered why GM is not considered to be a write-off from India, when their sales are nothing great to write about, at times being even less than Fiat's? Even their parent company is in a bad shape.

I am just a bit amused at your conviction that Fiat-India will soon bring down the shutters.

BTW, the latest news is that the Losses have narrowed at Fiat Auto, Italy, amid promises of a return to profit in 2005, thanks to a turnaround at its truck division. The group as a whole made an operating profit of 22m euros in 2004, slightly better than analysts had forecast. This hopefully would inject some enthusiasm in their Indian operations.

As far as the hacking of websites is concerned, even the Software giants and govt. sites have been hacked in past, with nastier messages. It is presumptuous to conclude about Fiat-India's closure based on such things.

GTO · 1st March 2005, 10:44

Quote:

Have you ever wondered why GM is not considered to be a write-off from India, when their sales are nothing great to write about, at times being even less than Fiat's? Even their parent company is in a bad shape.

Size does count. GM - the parent - is in bad shape primarily because of too many divisions/brands and too little focus. But it is the worlds no.1 in sales. And is a profitable concern. GM is so big that its almost an auto industry in itself. All they need is some trimming and renewed focus.

PSP, losses may have reduced for Fiat SPa but it is yet a loss making company. And I am speaking relevant to Fiat Indias operations, not Fiat SPa. Whenever management announces profit expectations in the near future, they bring pressure onto themselves. And the first thing they need to do is cut costs and eliminate loss making businesses which have no potential.

If you think my judgment is based on just the website being down - think again. Heres a linky thats more based on facts than blind assumptions - Fiat India - When will they shut down?

Merve, what you are stating is that they are not leaving just yet. I am of the opinion that they will leave eventually. Different sides of the same coin, most would believe.

GTO

merve_extreme · 1st March 2005, 20:38

But then u are saying they cannot make a comeback under any possible circumstances.No new cars(panda,idea etc) can save them,the JTD diesel the best small diesel that will come to india will flop.Palio and Petra will never do well after getting the JTD.dont u think that it is too much of a foresight.

IMO first to leave india will be FORD.What have they got to sale.i heard ikon is going down.the fusion has nearly flopped,mondeo is history.endavour sells like 20-50 per month.No one says FORD will leave,why?.I dont think they are in too much better shape than FIAT.

Want to know something even the unsinkable MB is sliding towards red.but that is a different ball game.MB will never die.

anyway thanks GTO for the lovely PM.

cream · 2nd March 2005, 00:49

maybe this post belongs to the 'when will fiat shut down thread' but then, all fiat threads somehow really go the same way

being a palio owner now, i abviously hope fiat stays - here's why i think they will.

firstly, it is now quite obvious that they want to. their recent motor show presence etc.

they no longer have the gm baggage - as the fiat spa ceo said, now fiat is sure to chart out their own course, without interference - and they are USD2b richer - that will wipe out 50% of their accumulated losses

the ceo recently came to india and had a talk with the ndtv guys - they are here to stay

they are looking for a jv with the hindujas - remember ashok leyland is being built in tech collaboration with iveco - a fiat company...

they have already notched up USD300mil for a finance option for fiat india so as to infuse new funds

the jv is expected to be finalised next month...

now what fiat india should do -

get guys in the top management who believe in fiat cars - that they are better than most others.

get new products in

advertise like hell - sooner or later people will walk into their showrooms - i think all consumers have short memories - look at how they forgot that tata blundered so many times with the v2...

give great margins and make multicar dealers display their cars ... - we all know, dealers plug cars that have the best margins for them...

did i mention advertise like hell...

and all the other usual stuff of course a.s.s, spare costs etc

the fiat palio is a great car whose time will come - after 3 years it still looks and feels like the top of the heap in the b+ segment IMO - if i think so, others will too

even if that doesn't change anything - here's what will happen, some other co. will buy fiat and use their expertise in engine design (esp diesel) and compact car design to plug their own cars - if the people don't realise how good fiat is - the industry surely knows...

here's to fiat - ke sera sera

GTO · 2nd March 2005, 09:58

Quote:

But then u are saying they cannot make a comeback under any possible circumstances.No new cars(panda,idea etc) can save them,the JTD diesel the best small diesel that will come to india will flop.Palio and Petra will never do well after getting the JTD.dont u think that it is too much of a foresight.

Quite simply, they dont have a product problem at all. They already have the best B-Segmenter. And its not like they never had a chance....the Palios initially were in the top 10 best selling Indian cars with 3,000 units per month.

The real problem is with all the issues that cream has laid out. I love the Petra/Palio and do hope that they make the required efforts.

But its a herculean task. And I dont think Fiat has it in them to accomplish the same.

GTO

cream · 2nd March 2005, 11:36

hey all u guys,

GTO, merve_extreme, and the 'fiat car lovers' gang - whatever happens, lets say we all meet up and have a beer - in 6 months time ... to celebrate or mourn the fate of fiat - either way.

and we dedicate a website to the great palio and petra 1.6 -

i know 1 thing - we are all passionate about this discussion because fiat cars are so loved - if we didn't care - we wouldn't be talking - there would just have been a small obit for fiat somewhere in this website

cheers

cream · 2nd March 2005, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

i think Shaman is listed because they may have a Ford showroom,but they must still be selling(or atleast servicing) Fiat cars.

btw, shaman is still very much a dealer for fiat - the fiat showroom has been shifted 1 building away - at the side of the ford showroom

deepakhon · 2nd March 2005, 11:44

Whatever the fate of Fiat in India be, I just love my Palio 1.2. It's just been a fantastic pal for me since the last one year. I am not sure whether Fiat will be able to make it big in India again, but I just want them to do it. When you are really down, there is always something saying that you can not go bad from here. There is only one way for them, and that is "up". I have no idea how they will do it, but I hope sincerely that they do it.

anoops · 2nd March 2005, 13:47

yep deepakhon,
i love my palio 1.2 as well, she's been an absolute dream to own...and if fiat comes out with the new palio rest assured i will buy that (this time the 1.6ltr engine)...there is something about the way fiat builds cars...they might suck at selling it or servicing it...but thats a dealership problem.....the ASS killed fiat.

26th February 2005, 23:06	#31
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	i think Shaman is listed because they may have a Ford showroom,but they must still be selling(or atleast servicing) Fiat cars.
	() Thanks

26th February 2005, 23:16	#32
lamborghini Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 6,112 Thanked: 5,760 Times View My Garage	Hey merve, thanx for telling everyone what i was going to say and have been saying in some threads. When i called up shaman they said that they are still selling Fiat cars and i have seen a few of their ads recently in Bombay Times
	() Thanks

28th February 2005, 10:05	#33
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,517 Thanked: 300,593 Times View My Garage	Merve, I think all of this talk has got you confused. Well, no one is saying that Fiat does NOT WANT to be in India. Of course Fiat wants to be in India. But the real question is...CAN THEY? Their sales are down to about 1% of the small car market, their brand value is lower than crap, they have only a handful of dealerships, the management still dont know what to do!! Boy, is that their comeback strategy? Displaying their cars in a cobbler of a motor show? One ad in the times of India? And taking close to a month to restore their website? Even my office peon could come up with a better strategy for a dying company. India is now an extremely competitive market, and Tata/Toyota/Hyundai/Maruti are already getting ready with their next generation B Segment offerings. Not only do they have the ready infrastructure and brand equity, but the Indian consumer trusts these four manufacturers with their eyes shut. If Fiat couldnt make it in the early millenium, it is highly doubtful that they will make it to a highly competitive 2007. Where the automotive industry is going to be the best example of a Dog eat Dog world. Wanting to be present in India is one thing. Having the capabilities to do so is an entirely different ballgame. And yes, try not to be biased and ask people if they own Fiats in this discussion. Seeing that you own a Fiat Palio, I can understand your support toward Fiat India. Remember that Team-BHP is based on honest opinions...not being biased toward a company because of car ownership. I own a Mercedes but am the first to lambast them for their poor quality. Most senior Team-BHPians will know of my love for the Palio and Petra. But the difference is....I keep my eyes open - And not in blind faith. Despite having the best product by far, the current sales do their bit to indicate what the consumer (the final authority) has to say about Fiat India. GTO
	() Thanks

28th February 2005, 10:15	#34
hasopi BANNED Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 177 Thanked: 0 Times	http://fiat-india.com has this info now... AN ANNOUNCEMENT Fiat cars are on display at the Mumbai Motor Show, Bandra Kurla Complex, Mumbai. from the 25th to 28th Feb 2005. Test Drive Facilities are also available at the Venue. so is it a genuine FIAT India site..????
	() Thanks

28th February 2005, 12:51	#35
maybach BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Mumbai Posts: 266 Thanked: 0 Times	A few dealers have packed up thought.. the dealer in Nerul Akshar Fiat has now turned into Piaggo.. some Autorickshaw manufacture
	() Thanks

28th February 2005, 22:29	#36
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	Common man GTO,i never said anything that makes me confused.all i said was that the info i post makes better sense for Fiat owners and people intending to buy one than to people not owning Fiat cars. What ur saying is "what are they doing to staying in India?" and i am saying they are not leaving just yet.so it makes completly differnt arguments.it makes no sense to talk of a company leaving the country when they are trying to stay on IMO.secondly i bought a Palio because i know Fiat makes better cars than Maruti,hyundai and tata IMO.it is not that i love fiat because i have a palio,i bought one because i like fiat cars. Last edited by merve_extreme : 28th February 2005 at 22:31.
	() Thanks

1st March 2005, 01:31	#37
psp62in BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 185 Thanked: 23 Times	Hi GTO, Have you ever wondered why GM is not considered to be a write-off from India, when their sales are nothing great to write about, at times being even less than Fiat's? Even their parent company is in a bad shape. I am just a bit amused at your conviction that Fiat-India will soon bring down the shutters. BTW, the latest news is that the Losses have narrowed at Fiat Auto, Italy, amid promises of a return to profit in 2005, thanks to a turnaround at its truck division. The group as a whole made an operating profit of 22m euros in 2004, slightly better than analysts had forecast. This hopefully would inject some enthusiasm in their Indian operations. As far as the hacking of websites is concerned, even the Software giants and govt. sites have been hacked in past, with nastier messages. It is presumptuous to conclude about Fiat-India's closure based on such things.
	() Thanks

1st March 2005, 20:38	#39
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	But then u are saying they cannot make a comeback under any possible circumstances.No new cars(panda,idea etc) can save them,the JTD diesel the best small diesel that will come to india will flop.Palio and Petra will never do well after getting the JTD.dont u think that it is too much of a foresight. IMO first to leave india will be FORD.What have they got to sale.i heard ikon is going down.the fusion has nearly flopped,mondeo is history.endavour sells like 20-50 per month.No one says FORD will leave,why?.I dont think they are in too much better shape than FIAT. Want to know something even the unsinkable MB is sliding towards red.but that is a different ball game.MB will never die. anyway thanks GTO for the lovely PM. Last edited by merve_extreme : 1st March 2005 at 20:43.
	() Thanks

2nd March 2005, 00:49	#40
cream BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 159 Thanked: 3 Times	maybe this post belongs to the 'when will fiat shut down thread' but then, all fiat threads somehow really go the same way being a palio owner now, i abviously hope fiat stays - here's why i think they will. firstly, it is now quite obvious that they want to. their recent motor show presence etc. they no longer have the gm baggage - as the fiat spa ceo said, now fiat is sure to chart out their own course, without interference - and they are USD2b richer - that will wipe out 50% of their accumulated losses the ceo recently came to india and had a talk with the ndtv guys - they are here to stay they are looking for a jv with the hindujas - remember ashok leyland is being built in tech collaboration with iveco - a fiat company... they have already notched up USD300mil for a finance option for fiat india so as to infuse new funds the jv is expected to be finalised next month... now what fiat india should do - get guys in the top management who believe in fiat cars - that they are better than most others. get new products in advertise like hell - sooner or later people will walk into their showrooms - i think all consumers have short memories - look at how they forgot that tata blundered so many times with the v2... give great margins and make multicar dealers display their cars ... - we all know, dealers plug cars that have the best margins for them... did i mention advertise like hell... and all the other usual stuff of course a.s.s, spare costs etc the fiat palio is a great car whose time will come - after 3 years it still looks and feels like the top of the heap in the b+ segment IMO - if i think so, others will too even if that doesn't change anything - here's what will happen, some other co. will buy fiat and use their expertise in engine design (esp diesel) and compact car design to plug their own cars - if the people don't realise how good fiat is - the industry surely knows... here's to fiat - ke sera sera
	() Thanks

2nd March 2005, 11:36	#42
cream BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 159 Thanked: 3 Times	hey all u guys, GTO, merve_extreme, and the 'fiat car lovers' gang - whatever happens, lets say we all meet up and have a beer - in 6 months time ... to celebrate or mourn the fate of fiat - either way. and we dedicate a website to the great palio and petra 1.6 - i know 1 thing - we are all passionate about this discussion because fiat cars are so loved - if we didn't care - we wouldn't be talking - there would just have been a small obit for fiat somewhere in this website cheers
	() Thanks

2nd March 2005, 11:44	#44
deepakhon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,441 Thanked: 65 Times	Whatever the fate of Fiat in India be, I just love my Palio 1.2. It's just been a fantastic pal for me since the last one year. I am not sure whether Fiat will be able to make it big in India again, but I just want them to do it. When you are really down, there is always something saying that you can not go bad from here. There is only one way for them, and that is "up". I have no idea how they will do it, but I hope sincerely that they do it.
	() Thanks

2nd March 2005, 13:47	#45
anoops BHPian Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: bangalore Posts: 183 Thanked: 3 Times	yep deepakhon, i love my palio 1.2 as well, she's been an absolute dream to own...and if fiat comes out with the new palio rest assured i will buy that (this time the 1.6ltr engine)...there is something about the way fiat builds cars...they might suck at selling it or servicing it...but thats a dealership problem.....the ASS killed fiat.
	() Thanks