[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by DCEite

So much for a discontinued car.

Seeing at the claimed FE figures, time to sell my Maruti, and head to nearest TATA-Fiat Showroom!

The whole point of this exercise was
1) To prove that pre-nv palio's werent fuel inefficient as claimed everywhere. 13 kmpl 'market average' with the AC on isnt bad at all for a 1 tonne + hatch with a 1.2 litre engine.
2) Speedo and Odo readings are not accurate. We can safely assume a 10% error b/w the reading and thr actual.

Too late though, the 1.2 has been discontinued! :P

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

The Brazilian Palio GTX was shod with 185/60R14 tires which has slightly smaller circumference than my car which has 175/65R14.

These sizes are for the Ind and Brazilian GTX. What were the Indian and Brazilian wheel sizes for the Palios that e_t is talking about (NV or pre-NV or whatever) ?

Also, as I see it, the difference between these 2 wheel sizes leads to only a negligible speedo error. If speedo reads 70mph, actually it is 70.67mph - not as big a difference to make an impact on the odo readings and thus the FE.

And as I understand it (courtesy tyrebible), if you change wheels, your speedo AND odo will get screwed up by almost the same %age, which is reflected correctly in the other cars you monitored - speedo off by 10% AND odo also off by 10%. But strangely, for the Palio, while the speedo is dead accurate, the odo underreads by 12%. Strange.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

And as I understand it (courtesy tyrebible), if you change wheels, your speedo AND odo will get screwed up by almost the same %age, which is reflected correctly in the other cars you monitored - speedo off by 10% AND odo also off by 10%. But strangely, for the Palio, while the speedo is dead accurate, the odo underreads by 12%. Strange.

Nopes, the odo underreads by 3%, but when you combine it with the other cars in the market which over read by atleast 10%, overall it becomes more than 12%.

[supremeBaleno]

You are right, e_t - the 12% you mentioned was when you included the error in other cars. My mistake.

But still how do you explain the speedo being accurate, but odo under-reading by 3% ?

Also, what are the tyre specs for the Ind and Brazilian versions of the Palio-NV that we are discussing in this thread ?

[Minardi]

To claim other car's odometer reading gives 10% higher figure is not convincing. Whenever I have travelled long distance (Matiz, Esteem and NHC), the odos accurately coincided with the milestones on the highway. If the milestone said Satara 130 kms, then Satara comes within a +/- 2 km error not at 143 kms.

[finneyp]

^^ Will you believe a much reliable GPS or Milestones by Govt Highways Dept?

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Minardi

To claim other car's odometer reading gives 10% higher figure is not convincing. Whenever I have travelled long distance (Matiz, Esteem and NHC), the odos accurately coincided with the milestones on the highway. If the milestone said Satara 130 kms, then Satara comes within a +/- 2 km error not at 143 kms.

Dear friend.... A GPS is a bit more sophisticated than milestones. Why dont you check for yourselves?

[supremeBaleno]

Not that I don't trust e_t or the milestones or the GPS, but I would need to see my car's odo reading wrong for myself, before I believe it. I know that speedos will over-read for most cars, which is intentionally done by car manufacturers, but I see no reason why they would make the odo over-read.

As I asked before, anyone has tyre/rim specs for Ind and Brazilian Palio NVs, which supposedly led to this low-FE taint on the Palio ???

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Not that I don't trust e_t or the milestones or the GPS, but I would need to see my car's odo reading wrong for myself, before I believe it. I know that speedos will over-read for most cars, which is intentionally done by car manufacturers, but I see no reason why they would make the odo over-read.

As I asked before, anyone has tyre/rim specs for Ind and Brazilian Palio NVs, which supposedly led to this low-FE taint on the Palio ???

SB, As I said, the Brazilian fiasco cost FE by 3% only which can be considered marginal but when combined with % error of other car in the market its no more marginal.

[aravindwarrier]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Just so that all you guys know, the speeds that you see on the Palio do not come from the wheels. Neither does the RPM. All the values in analog that you see are sent from the ECU.

Continue with your discussion. Thanks.

Would you mind clarifying a wee bit more on this? Not that I did not understand, but i wonder how it is going to affect the outcome of E_T's Study

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

SB, As I said, the Brazilian fiasco cost FE by 3% only which can be considered marginal but when combined with % error of other car in the market its no more marginal.

Point taken, e_t.

But I am trying to go to the root of the problem which looks to me like this :

Palio sold with config-A tyre/rim at Brazil, comes to India, tyre/rim changed to config-B, but recalibration not done, leads to odo underreading, leads to customers crying foul about low FE, leads to Palio not selling.

So, the unknowns here are config-A and config-B which I wanted to know, to determine the possible odo/speedo error.

Or, are you saying that even if the Brazilian fiasco did not happen, the Palio would still have had a -ve image of low-FE due to the odo of other cars overreading ?

Anyone in Chennai having a GPS device ? We really need to check this out on our various cars. Nitrous, your hi-fi phone has this ?

[sanjaymugur]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Or, are you saying that even if the Brazilian fiasco did not happen, the Palio would still have had a -ve image of low-FE due to the odo of other cars overreading ?

yes this is exactly extreme_torque is trying to say, the under reading of brazilian odo of PALIO ,+, over reading of odo from other manufactures multiplied the problem, +, the perception that heavy cars give less mileage also added to -ve image of palio.. stupid FIAT-India...

FIAT, always.. with or without mileage ...LOL..

[BWN]

In have also observed the Speedo-Odo error in many cars. I have used GPS(GPS watch software) to calculate the distance and speed on various trips and found my Baleno & Palio to be almost accurate and santro, esteem and Ikon Flair have the least accuracy. particularly the Ikon flair's speedo beats all since it shows a speed of 60 kmph when the actual speed is 52 kmph.

Palio, esteem, santro and Ikon are not owned by me but they were all stock when tested.

All these are based on my observations. Off topic, I found my Bajaj Caliber 115 to be more accurate than cars when it comes to Speed and Distance

No offence meant to the car owners on this forum. So dont bash me up.

[sanjaymugur]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

But still how do you explain the speedo being accurate, but odo under-reading by 3% ?

can somebody explain this ?

FIAT, always...

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by 1100D

Where does the ECU get the speed inputs from?

From the gear box. It doesn't have anything to do with the wheels.