[DieselFan]

Almost 2 years since the last post on this thread and nothing much seems to have changed in the sUV scenario. Yeti has come but highly priced. Mahindra are talking of Mini Xylo but not intelligent mini Scorpio. No SX4 crossover yet. I think our car manufacturers don't really see customer view point anymore. Especially in the mini Smart Utility vehicle space. This vacuum is growing day by day and will suck any decent offering from our auto manufacturers.

are auto manufacturers listening?

[suhaas307]

The new Renault Duster seems promising. It should fit into that category pretty well.

The SX4 in its hatch-crossover avatar would have been ideal. With its 4x4, good GC and small dimensions, it would be perfect for the Indian scenario, where one needs a relatively small car to maneuver themselves in horrendous traffic conditions, and dodge nasty pot-holes and rough roads, while ferrying 5 passengers and luggage, and doing all of it without making too many trips to the petrol-bunk.

[shankar.balan]

SX4 Hatch
Toyota Rav 4
Dacia/ Renault Duster
Ford Kuga
Maruti Jimny/ Vitara/ Samurai - new gen

the list is endless

[patil]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

SX4 Hatch
Toyota Rav 4
Dacia/ Renault Duster
Ford Kuga
Maruti Jimny/ Vitara/ Samurai - new gen

the list is endless

Yes the list is endless but has not even started in India. All the major auto manufacturers in India have a wide range of compact suvs in their stable abroad even in countries which are less developed than India.

However none of the auto manufacturers are introducing any of the compact suvs below 10 lacs in India. In fact India needs such vehicles which can effectively capture a good share of the hatchback and sedan cars.

Even for travelling on normal Indian roads including the national highways, state highways and rural roads compact suvs are better than the hatchbacks or the sedans. Most of the speed brakers scrape the bellys of our cars and the hatchbacks and sedans cant handle the pit sized pot holes.

So lets hope that the auto manufacturers take note of this demand and introduce their compact suvs in India.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

SX4 Hatch
Toyota Rav 4
Dacia/ Renault Duster
Ford Kuga
Maruti Jimny/ Vitara/ Samurai - new gen

the list is endless

Originally Posted by patil

However none of the auto manufacturers are introducing any of the compact suvs below 10 lacs in India. In fact India needs such vehicles which can effectively capture a good share of the hatchback and sedan cars.

India's very own Premier 'Rio' fits the bill perfectly.

I've seen a handful of them on Bangalore roads. What seems to be the problem? Shoddy quality? Poor marketing? After-sales? The badge? Or all this put together?

[Zed]

At the end of the day price will be an important consideration. Customers that want a compact, fuel efficient sUV (with modern underpinnings) would expect the vehicle to be in the Rs 5 lakh price bracket. Would be very difficult for any OEM to provide a credible, modern sUV for that price - unless its something like the Rio or a mini Xylo that was talked about earlier in this thread. On the other hand customers who aspire or SUVs will want the size, badge & style (and performance?) that really defines the SUV segment. In short - not an easy niche to fill from an OEM perspective.
Of the OEMs in India I would bet M&M to be in the best position to deliver a sUV-ish product given their UV DNA and their focus\commitment to the segment. It would also make a lot of sense to pitch in a lower cost vehicle as an entry level options to lure more customer into the UV \ SUV fold.

[shankar.balan]

Quality definitely. Lack of trust in the Premier Brand which has re-badged some Chinese derivative of an old gen Daihatsu Terios.
Plus a wheezy ancient, useless engine. No 4WD even as an option.
High price. Unidentified, Untrace-able After Sales Service Organization.


If Premier wants to make a comeback then their efficiency levels and overal quality, VFM consumer offering has to be re-evaluated. They need to realize that this economy is no longer the starved ill informed poorly paid protectionist one with the soviet inspired mind-set that their brand(s) expired in, around 15 years ago!

Originally Posted by suhaas307

India's very own Premier 'Rio' fits the bill perfectly.

I've seen a handful of them on Bangalore roads. What seems to be the problem? Shoddy quality? Poor marketing? After-sales? The badge? Or all this put together?

[shankar.balan]

Yeti fits the bill perfectly for the affluent chap looking for a smart utility vehicle

[DieselFan]

Yes Yeti fits the bill perfectly as a sUV but...........

1. Price point of Yeti is high compared to any standards (Yeti needs to be manufactured here with local parts to make it price competitive.)
2. A.S.S is too callous and cost of maintenance high
3. Skoda cars have been unreliable in india with heavy on downtime (Cars seem to spend more time in garage under repairs then any other car manufacturers' cars).

[shankar.balan]

i think this is too much of a general statement and anyway there are many other posts about this on the forum
perhaps we should not introduce this topic of Skoda service either perceived or real, here

Either way the Yeti fits the bill of a Smart Utility Vehicle perfectly
yes it is expensive but I guess the good things in life dont always come cheap!

Originally Posted by DieselFan

2. A.S.S is too callous and cost of maintenance high
3. Skoda cars have been unreliable in india with heavy on downtime (Cars seem to spend more time in garage under repairs then any other car manufacturers' cars).

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

i think this is too much of a general statement and anyway there are many other posts about this on the forum
perhaps we should not introduce this topic of Skoda service either perceived or real, here

Either way the Yeti fits the bill of a Smart Utility Vehicle perfectly
yes it is expensive but I guess the good things in life dont always come cheap!

The statement made is very specific.If the three points were covered then we would be seeing multifold increase in sale of yeti.

Today yeti sales is fraction of Scorpio/Safari/Fortuner even though there is a market for sUVs. Why?

[sridhar-v]

based on my travels over the past 4 years I have come to the following specs for a perfect "Small Smart Activity Vehicle":-

Length -4000mm. Breadth -1700mm max. Ground clearance- 200mm.
4x4-part-time auto select. ABS & Airbags. Traction control would be desirable.
And since I have started driving the Santro AT an Auto gearbox is a must.

So sadly I need to upgrade from our Ford Fusion (no auto, abs or airbags.!!)

Suzuki SX4 Hatch with 2 litre engine, 4x4 & CVT gearbox is a ready model as sold in USA. Converting to RHD should not involve any major engineering.

The body could be made on existing Manesar welding lines with some minor tooling additions. Engine, GB & 4wd system could be imported @ 30/60% duty. Still will work out to be a steal compared to the 18l+ that we need to pay for the yeti & its likes.


Maruti -- wake up & do something smart for a change

[shankar.balan]

This post is quite OT on this thread but I want to state the various points here:

I believe there are too many negative impressions being bandied about on skoda's after sales service. i have several friends who have ownned and currently own skoda vehicles and as I understand it none of them have faced such terrible woes as highlighted on the forum.

My submission is that people who are looking to spend approx 20 lacs on an SUV tend to go for size rather than compactness. Also most of them need only 2WD rather than 4WD. hence the 2WD sales is outstripping 4WD wherever a choice is available.

People tend to equate SUV's with machismo, snob value, road presence, "respect" from other users etc - hence the Yeti tends to score low on these parameters in comparison to even the top end Scorp.

Remember when the Fabia came out at a high price for a hatch?
People generally preferred to go with an equivalently priced sedan because for many in India, sheer build quality, euro luxury, soft feel interiors and uncompromising safety features are not worth paying such a premium for. We do as a people, tend to compromise and go for a base version of a larger size. This is also partially due to our Government not yet having made it mandatory that all vehicles MUST come with essential safety features like ABS and Airbags and Crash protection and proper safety ratings by an accredited body like EURO NCAP. Why not a Bharat NCAP instead of BS4 and 5? Indeed, why not both? Fact is, we are still evolving in that sense.

My own case 3.5 years back is one in point - I chose at the time to buy the base Scorpio on account of its space and mechanical nature rather than buy a Ford Fusion TDCi Plus with ABS at the same price- mostly the decision was taken on account of space and I did at the time, compromise on safety.

Consumers today have evolved a bit, but not too much - especially from the SUV=Size perspective. Lots of highly evolved friends of mine still dismiss the Yeti as a large-ish WagonR. The same chaps have nothing but appreciation for the Fortuner. And they used to dismiss the Fabia as being the same size as the Swift but almost 2 -3 lacs more expensive in its top end avatar - not for a moment did they condescend to appreciate the build quality and safety stuff in the Fabia vis a vis the Swift.

Yeti is a seriously good vehicle - of that I have no doubt - but even today, despite having evolved to appreciate the safety features and convenience in this vehicle, I am still thinking and thinking - mostly on account of the storage space inside - I do like to carry a lot of stuff in my vehicle even though mostly there are only 2 of us sitting in it. The Tucson, X Trail etc would be closer to my need state overall. Hence even I would take atleast another 6-7 months to make up my mind about the Yeti, though my heart tugs every time I see one or think of one! It is still a bit ahead of its time here in India possibly.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

The statement made is very specific.If the three points were covered then we would be seeing multifold increase in sale of yeti.

Today yeti sales is fraction of Scorpio/Safari/Fortuner even though there is a market for sUVs. Why?

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

The statement made is very specific.If the three points were covered then we would be seeing multifold increase in sale of yeti.

Today yeti sales is fraction of Scorpio/Safari/Fortuner even though there is a market for sUVs. Why?

We Indians have been bit by the American bug.

You must have noticed how we equate size to money, and vice-versa?

We love our cars big and bling. If you've spent more money on a car that's no larger than a car that's several lakhs cheaper, you're apparently, a twit. A Yeti that costs 20 lakhs makes no sense to a customer who is ready to spend the same amount of money on something big.

The Fortuner screams money, in India. I don't know why, hoesntly. It's a bit of a let down to be honest. It doesn't offer the same sort of dynamics and quality that the Yeti comes with.

Why do you think there are so many sedan-ed hatches in our country? The Vento, the Dzire, the new Fiesta, the Linea, even the City! At the same prices, all you can pick up in a European country or the US is a large hatch. That is something we Indians cannot digest, because we demand more space and a boot as well.

Indians want bang for their buck.

This may be seen in other developing countries as well.

And this theory applies to the Yeti and the Fortuner.

The Yeti is a great car, a little SUV that does everything you'd ask from it. It's big, yet small enough to drive around town without slowing down for everything. It's frugal, it's plush and comfy and has loads of space. Perfect for many nuclear families who do yearly drives, with kids et al.

The Fortuner, on the other hand, is a big 'ol truck. A truck that's used for commercial purposes in some countries. It's the same truck that's been converted into a SUV for markets like ours. Dynamically, it's flawed. The Yeti is a better 'car', IMO.

[tachobells]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Indians want bang for their buck.

You must have noticed how we equate size to money, and vice-versa?

There are two points in your post. There is nothing wrong in asking more for the buck. Indian customer is very demanding. We want an SUV that has ticks against all features, a diesel engine with maximum possible fuel efficiency, about 140 bhp of power, quality interiors and all this around 11-12 Lakhs ex-showroom. This is *okay*. This is Indian market. This is the customer requirement here.

The first company understands this properly and makes a product like this will get people camping outside their showrooms. So far no one has done it. But someday some smart company will do it for sure.

The next point is size = money. Which is true at the moment. IMHO the reason for that is the need for differentiation. The customer who pays more than 15 Lakh on road for a car needs some exclusivity. And one of the way he sees exclusivity is by having it big. Which is stupid as you said.

But, IMHO this is part of the evolution of the market here. Once you own a BIG SUV, you might probably understand the practical issues with it and will want something smaller, but classy as a next buy. (There is already a thread running about downgrading from Sedan to Hatch in this forum).

For me the ideal size of an SUV for an Indian city is that of the CR-V. But then, that's just my opinion.