[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by MileCruncher

I think the crux of the discussion we are having here is that we need a stricter licensing authority than the present regime.

Originally Posted by fiery enzyme

The solution would be stricter liscensing norms.

So who sets those norms? Our ministers, politicians etc. - right? And who sets the norms for when they should retire? Which naturally brings us to the question raised by Mpower. The day we as a nation can answer the question of when our politicians should retire from running the country, we as BHPians can answer the question of when elderly folks should stop driving.

Originally Posted by Mpower

Its not a question of personal opinion but its the law of nature (or Biology??) .........as people grow old, they lose physical strength and the reflexes slow down and eyesight worsens etc etc.

If that was'nt the case then the concept of 'retirement' and 'retirement age' would not exist in the workplace and people would just continue working till the drop dead one day.

Apart from physical strength, reflexes and eyesight, elderly people also tend to lose their mental faculties, memory, ability to reason and deduce. Yet we still let them run our country, our future, our very lives.

Till the time that they do, please let them also run their own motorcars.

[amulu10]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

Well remember a lady interviewed on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, aged 102/3, hit a hole in one. Plays golf 3 days a week, drives, and looked fit as a fiddle to me, came across as any other 85 year old. There are people like this out there - naturally, not a vast majority, but they do exist. All Im saying is, if they are fit enough to drive, why not.

agreed that if a person is fit at 100 they can drive . i have also seen some 15 year old also drive responsibly at that age but obviously there are some rules that are laid down because a certain (majority)% of people under 18 drive recklessly and there cant be any exceptions to allow a 15 year old guy to drive just because he/she drives in a safe manner . I dont understand how this cannot apply to people above 80. Just because some of them are real good drivers at 80 doesnt mean that the majority at 80 drive well too.(from personal experience IMO !)

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by Mpower

The concept exists in all countries of the world so obviously its not flawed. BTW how can I be right if I dont agree with it.

The fact that it is universally accepted lends credence to the possibility that it might be very much flawed.

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

As for the law itself, it is absolutely fine. It allows you to drive after fifty as long as you can prove yourself medically able do so. However, it would be silly to leave it there as implementation is a big issue in India. A blanket ban after a certain age makes more sense in that case because it is harder (though not impossible) for people to get around it. Put it this way, because the human body loses its quick reflexes after a certain age for a significant number (perhaps even a majority) of people, those who are actually able to drive cannot do so. It is an externality that is borne by some people for the greater good. If we did have the power to implement the current law adequately, then things would be different. However, when the authorities have their hands tied in terms of implementation, you have to make cruder laws.

The excuse of the imaginary "greater good" cannot be used an an excuse for trampling over an individual.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

The excuse of the imaginary "greater good" cannot be used an an excuse for trampling over an individual.

So your solution is to allow a large number of dangerous drivers on the road in exchange for the driving rights of a few?

[SirAlec]

How many of us has heard on news that so and so old person driving has killed x number of person sleeping on pavement etc. (This is no way a reference to certain film stars )

Driving is a skill. and age has nothing to do with it. My 78 year old uncle drives the 4x4 so fast and firm on hilly roads that we younger ones riding with him are amazed. No power steering, no power brakes just old school stuff.

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

So your solution is to allow a large number of dangerous drivers on the road in exchange for the driving rights of a few?

I think SirAlec has answered that for me.

As I said, I myself hate the way most older people ride (most females included). But I have also seen many older people drive extremely well, as I have mentioned above. Nobody should have that right taken away ...unless the person is really not competent to drive. You yourself would belong to some age bracket... whatever that is. How about tommorrow some statastician finds that age bracket makes for the riskiest drivers? Shall we take away your right to drive?

[StarVegabond]

Driving is a skill, nothing to do with the age.

more over there are already provisions in our motor vehicles act about the driving license issue/renewal process

After the age of 50, the driving licenses are required to be renewed every 5 years (instead of 20 for younger people).

Decision of upto what age one should drive should be left to an individual freedom as it is very much inidividual and also the concequences (if any)

[vasudeva]

Since there is a paucity of studies on older drivers in India, here is a study on older drivers in US (this implies higher risk for older drivers not of 50-60 years but for +70 yrs:

http://www.iihs.org/externaldata/srdata/docs/sr4203.pdf

Some key highlights

Older drivers are overrepresented in collisions at intersections. A 1988 Transportation Research Board report concludes that “about half of the safety problems of senior drivers occur at intersections.” Similar findings have been published in study after study, including a 2006 IIHS-sponsored report on the conditions and locations of older drivers’ crashes. The lead author of this report, D.R. Mayhew, says the extent of the overinvolvement of older drivers in collisions at intersections “generally increases with advancing age.” Forty percent of the fatal collisions of people 70 and older, compared with 23 percent of the crashes of 35-54 year-olds, occur at intersections and involve other vehicles.

Reasons for intersection crashes varied by driver age. People 70-79 made more evaluation errors than drivers of other ages. That is, they saw potentially conflicting vehicles but misjudged whether there was time to proceed. The failure to see other vehicles “may be due to increases in vision impairments, which escalate rapidly after about age 75. Another factor could involve the complexity of urban intersections, with vehicles traveling in multiple directions. Older drivers may experience decreasing ability to process the multiple sources of information at once and maneuver safely.” Range of head movement might also be a factor in older drivers’ crashes. These ranges have been found to decrease with age, which could hinder a driver’s ability to see potentially conflicting vehicles.

Crashes per capita are lower among older drivers than people in any other age group, mostly because fewer older people have licenses and those who do drive fewer miles. But when older people get behind the wheel, their risk of crashing and dying is high.

Per mile crash rates of older drivers are high. Their fatal crash rates also are high. In fact, the fatality rate among drivers 85 and older is higher than in any other age group, including teens. However, older drivers are more likely to be hazardous to themselves but not particularly to other people. Older people’s own fragility makes them vulnerable to getting injured in a crash and then to dying from their injuries. However, the fatality risk isn’t higher for people in vehicles that collide with those driven by older people versus younger ones. “Drivers younger than 30 are responsible for far more injuries to other people and lives lost in crashes.

Rates of insurance claims show a similar pattern. Claims for injuries to other people in crashes increase as drivers age, indicating that older drivers more often are responsible for the collisions in which they’re involved. However, the rate of claims for the oldest drivers still isn’t as high as for teenagers.

[DKG]

I think apart from the eye test there is also a medical fitness clearance required by our driving license test. The last time I upgraded my license to include LCV's I had to meet a doctor and I think some form declaring fitness was signed.

So technically if an elderly person can pass a fitness test there should be no reason to deny him/her the freedom to drive.

On the same score you have many handicapped persons driving. They too should clear the fitness test and be allowed to drive.

I think its unfair to put a cap based purely on age. I know several people who are in their mid 80's and extremely fit ie they can walk unaided, lift things in daily home chores and drive a car.

A fitness test is all it takes to clear the person.

Just think about it, there are more drunks on the road, who are young and fit, causing more damage than oldies. Try regulating that more ! Not to mention the million morons in India who regularly drive through traffic lights when red. How about regulating them?

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by DKG

I think apart from the eye test there is also a medical fitness clearance required by our driving license test. The last time I upgraded my license to include LCV's I had to meet a doctor and I think some form declaring fitness was signed.

So technically if an elderly person can pass a fitness test there should be no reason to deny him/her the freedom to drive.

Perhaps Hyderabad RTO is honest and diligent, but sadly that is not the case elsewhere. This paper highlights how people in India get driving licences.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Perhaps Hyderabad RTO is honest and diligent, but sadly that is not the case elsewhere. This paper highlights how people in India get driving licences.

Corruption is rampant in Hyderabad RTO too just that the system has become more transparent and there's no avoiding certain things like the field test or the eye test etc is a must. The staff still manage to make money on the sly, that's another issue

[vasudeva]

Older people may have vision impairment and inadequate reflexes, but considering the kind of people that drive in India, I would surely prefer more of old people and ladies on our roads.

[gendarmee]

Seniors over 75 yrs may be barred from driving - India - The Times of India

I find it very very crappy. When one is physically fit, why bar him/her from driving? Also, older people tend to drive carefully, avoid heavy traffic, bad weather conditions.

Would a move to make states strictly impose existing traffic rules not be a better option, that's where anyone would eventually put the learning to use. I'm saying that because one can go though through a strict process of acquiring a license but if he has to drive in a place where a gazillion people are are already driving oblivious of traffic rules, whats the use?

Wonder what makes them think that a 16 year old cannot ride a 50cc moped responsibly. Crappy idea, will probably lead monopoly and hence corruption.

A couple weeks ago I saw an auto scratch a car's bumper, the traffic cop exclaimed to the car chap,"wrong direction, but didn't you see the auto come. why are ya complaining?!" Even staying put at a red signal is a problem nowadays because people behind think that it ought be broken as there little/no traffic coming from the green signal side.

[recshenoy]

i agree that age is one of the factor. but if a person is fit, he should be allowed to drive.

OT

But there are tons of rash young drivers out there. why not we have law to teach them some disipline rather than targetting small amout of old age drivers!

[lancer_rit]

I had voted yes, and am somewhat surprised that almost 40% voters fill that there has to be an upper age limit for driving.
For me, what matters is whether the person is fit, has the required eyesight, and reasonable reflexes to be a safe driver. This means that Driving license needs to be renewed by passing tests periodically, and the periodicity can increase at senior age brackets.
Also, someone who has 30 or 40 years of driving experience, is probably, a much learned and safe driver than someone with 5 years of driving experience.
Arguments about corruption in RTO/lacunae in process to get DLs, I don't see why it isn't the same for the youngest drivers to the oldest ?