[Samir Taheer]

Originally Posted by saildrive

I came across this mail a few days back, interesting read!
--------

For 534 MPs, the expense for 5 years:
Rs. 8,54,40,00,000/-
(Nearly 855 crores)

AND THE PRIME MINISTER IS ASKING THE HIGHLY QUALIFIED, OUT PERFORMING CEOs TO CUT DOWN THEIR SALARIES......

This is how all our tax money is been swallowed and price hike on our regular commodities.
And this is the present condition of our country:

855 crores could make their life livable!!

I totally agree thats the amount spent on MP's is alot, but it happens everywhere. Here in the UK there's been huge crtisisim to the expense claims being made by MP's. The scretary of state actually managed to put in a claim for Porn her husband had bought. My point is that it happens everywhere.

Originally Posted by sunilgee

We have been made to think that imports are bad, it will kill local industry etc etc the usual protectionist crap. If not for imports or rather foreign competetion. Indian companies would not have improved, innovated ,found the resolve to fight it out with the foreign competitors. one really has to admire companies like Tata, Mahindra, Bajaj,Enfield they put Indian brains to work and were able to prove to the world that inspite of the fact that we were way behind in the technology race thanks to bureaucratic controls and skewered political ideology. WE ARE FAST CATCHING UP, the West is still trying to figure out the costing of the Tata Nano. Imagine if we were still driving around in Premier Padminis or Shakeelas and Ambassador mark X's or booking Bajaj Chetaks for our grandchildren. Those who did not anticipate the changing times and refused to change fell by the wayside. Premier Automobiles, Ideal Jawa. Hindustan Motors has managed to maybe just survive, but they are yet to develop a product of their own.

Sunilgee - I totally agree with what you say. Its the International companies that have forced our local companies to improve. Working in the UK we deal with alot of Indian suppliers and the common complaint is that the work ethics is still not upto that off the western countries. But if you see the improvment in the last few years, its amazing to see how much some of these companies have achived. Its all down to the International Market.

I guess the biggest problem India has, is its population, its percentage of Un-educated people and personally i think unless we get over this inter religious fights and pitching one group againt the other, we will never progress like we should. The energy is being diverted to areas that will never improve out market and standard of living. I need to make it very clear that i dont deny that there loads of indivduals out there making a difference to our country, but there are those who only see personal gain and thats what hampers progress.

[pedrolourenco]

At the end of the day I don't care what the reasons for the higher price are. For me if I am paying a higher price for a product and someone else pays less it is injustice. I care about how much goes out from my pocket. Who is responsible for this is irrevalant. Let the govt and manufacturers sort it out. Just give us the cars at the right price.

[panicslayer]

I see, in india, you guys are still getting far cheaper than we are getting local crap here in Pakistan. Considering the price list being pasted by the poster, we have 150k to 200K price difference in hatch, 300K to 400K different in sedan and several K difference in luxury sedans. Still you guys are getting better than us atleast

[agentsmith2]

Originally Posted by panicslayer

I see, in india, you guys are still getting far cheaper than we are getting local crap here in Pakistan. Considering the price list being pasted by the poster, we have 150k to 200K price difference in hatch, 300K to 400K different in sedan and several K difference in luxury sedans. Still you guys are getting better than us atleast

Is that after considering the indian-paki rupee currency exchange rate Pakistani rupee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[blackasta]

have you guys seen the latest ad of TATA tea '..kyunki hum detey hain' focussed on bribery and corruption?
The same rule applies to car manufacturers here. All the nouveau rich who have NO idea about cars, leave alone performance, VFM etc pay up anything the companies offer in so called 'premium' model range at ridiculous prices, just to show off that they have a BIG car. Come on, Honda sells the civic base model in US for around $15000 (around 7.25 lakhs INR). whats stopping them to price the same car here (I guess Honda city is heavily localized) at 7.5 lakhs? its 'us', who are ready to pay any amount for a 'HONDA' badge, albeit at a 3 lakh premium than our USA cousins.

[stanjohn123]

Have any of you guys ever realized how this government is cheating us of our rights to own a car which we truly deserve.I always believed a man is known completely by the car he owns. However this can not be the case in India mainly because our government has imposed taxes which are so absurd and stupid.I'm aware that these taxes came into effect a long time back just for domestic car makers like Tata,Mahindra and Maruti to gain a foothold in the Indian auto market so that they don't perish against foreign car's competition in our country. I'm pretty sure now as well as a lot of you would agree Indian car manufacturers like Tata have come a long way and they manufacture cars that are up to international standards plus considering the fact that they own Land Rover and Jaguar goes to show how much foothold they have in the Indian Auto market today.

But definitely my point is not about Indian car manufacturer's doing well but why does Foreign car manufacturers still have such an absurd tax on their cars due to the Indian tax system still (which eventually we'll end up paying).For those of you who don't know,I now know that the tax is based totally for our politicians gain.A Mitsubishi Pajero costs only 10 Laks in any other country but it would cost 45-55 Lakhs here in India and the only people who buy it are Politicians and Actors.Thats crazy people.This is just an example.And other cars like Skoda Laura 105 HP which actually just cost 5-6 Lakhs abroad cost an amusing 15-19 Lakhs in India and that too just for a puny 140 HP engine on the L & K.So on an approximate analysis we pay nearly 120-150 % price just as tax to our government when we opt to purchase a luxury vehicle which is definitely not the true value of the car.

So i just thought why are we paying more for vehicles than what they are actually worth. I mean do they pay you guys in your office for more than what you're worth for.I don't think so or i guess we Indians are just a bunch of push overs who would accept whatever the government tells us to do.All i wish and hope for is that one day someone makes this a political agenda and asks the government to think about the upper middle class indians for once (who are in minority of course)apart from the lower class people(i don't have a prob with that either) and abolish this absurd tax system on cars which actually affects our character and personality indirectly.I really do want to buy a vehicle in the 30-40 Lakh range but only for what it's worth and not to give it away simply as tax to the governement (as its our hard earned money)and i do wanna see expensive cars on our roads but driven by normal people like you and me and not just film stars and politicians.

And if you all think this is just because i wanna buy a new car ,think again.I can just go to Kuwait becoz that's where i was born and brought up and a Ford Mustang GT costs just 10-15 Lakhs.I could just drive and enjoy the beauty of cars there itself but i just wish one day it's possible for me to drive those beautiful cars here as well.

[stanjohn123]

None of the money we pay as tax is coming back to us in any way guys.See our road infrastructure which is so pathetic.The way we pay tax for our cars i'm pretty sure our government can build autobhans from Kashmir to Kanyakumari alright.

Save alone a few people getting jobs in new manufacturing plants being built.There is nothing we get from our government.We are getting ripped off from all sides just because we are all pushovers who can't do anythin but just talk about it.Who is Mayawati to build statues of herself with our money.Did anyone do anythin to her for wasting our money the way she did.I dont think so.

On the other side automotive manufacturers don't care to provide the service we deserve although we pay a very high premium.Maybe it's time we the common people do something like go on a strike against this damn government or stop buying cars totally unless they remove the tax completely on cars.It should be nationwide and this should become a political agenda and the govt deserves a spanking

[agentsmith2]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

Have any of you guys ever realized how this government is cheating us of our rights to own a car which we truly deserve.I always believed a man is known completely by the car he owns. However this can not be the case in India mainly because our government has imposed taxes which are so absurd and stupid.I'm aware that these taxes came into effect a long time back just for domestic car makers like Tata,Mahindra and Maruti to gain a foothold in the Indian auto market so that they don't perish against foreign car's competition in our country. I'm pretty sure now as well as a lot of you would agree Indian car manufacturers like Tata have come a long way and they manufacture cars that are up to international standards plus considering the fact that they own Land Rover and Jaguar goes to show how much foothold they have in the Indian Auto market today.

But definitely my point is not about Indian car manufacturer's doing well but why does Foreign car manufacturers still have such an absurd tax on their cars due to the Indian tax system still (which eventually we'll end up paying).For those of you who don't know,I now know that the tax is based totally for our politicians gain.A Mitsubishi Pajero costs only 10 Laks in any other country but it would cost 45-55 Lakhs here in India and the only people who buy it are Politicians and Actors.Thats crazy people.This is just an example.And other cars like Skoda Laura 105 HP which actually just cost 5-6 Lakhs abroad cost an amusing 15-19 Lakhs in India and that too just for a puny 140 HP engine on the L & K.So on an approximate analysis we pay nearly 120-150 % price just as tax to our government when we opt to purchase a luxury vehicle which is definitely not the true value of the car.

So i just thought why are we paying more for vehicles than what they are actually worth. I mean do they pay you guys in your office for more than what you're worth for.I don't think so or i guess we Indians are just a bunch of push overs who would accept whatever the government tells us to do.All i wish and hope for is that one day someone makes this a political agenda and asks the government to think about the upper middle class indians for once (who are in minority of course)apart from the lower class people(i don't have a prob with that either) and abolish this absurd tax system on cars which actually affects our character and personality indirectly.I really do want to buy a vehicle in the 30-40 Lakh range but only for what it's worth and not to give it away simply as tax to the governement (as its our hard earned money)and i do wanna see expensive cars on our roads but driven by normal people like you and me and not just film stars and politicians.

And if you all think this is just because i wanna buy a new car ,think again.I can just go to Kuwait becoz that's where i was born and brought up and a Ford Mustang GT costs just 10-15 Lakhs.I could just drive and enjoy the beauty of cars there itself but i just wish one day it's possible for me to drive those beautiful cars here as well.

(1) No, the govt is not cheating us by taxing our cars.

(2) Politicians and Actors will always buy the richest car. If Mitsubishi costs 10Lakh, they'll upgrade to Carrera. Or Ferrari. They do it in India. They do it in US. They do it in your land of birth - Kuwait. High prices of car have nothing to do with Politicians buying the best and biggest the market can offer.

(3) Now, do you have *any* idea what the parking charges are in any other country ? Pick any US city - and it starts with $2 to $7 an HOUR in the town. That's sweet Rs 100-300 per hour. Show up your car at the service center, and you'll end up paying a minimum of $100. [I paid $500 for a stupid oil change once, but that's a story for another day]. Illegal parking gets your car towed - and you pay $150 or more. Parking tickets? Start at $50.
[citation:]Councils get rich on parking | The Daily Telegraph

Please o please step out of India [or Kuwait with its blood soaked oil dollars] to 'experience' the Total Cost of Ownership [of a car] in the country of your choice before spewing vile on India's financial/taxing structure.

[agentsmith2]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

None of the money we pay as tax is coming back to us in any way guys.See our road infrastructure which is so pathetic.The way we pay tax for our cars i'm pretty sure our government can build autobhans from Kashmir to Kanyakumari alright.

Save alone a few people getting jobs in new manufacturing plants being built.There is nothing we get from our government.We are getting ripped off from all sides just because we are all pushovers who can't do anythin but just talk about it.Who is Mayawati to build statues of herself with our money.Did anyone do anythin to her for wasting our money the way she did.I dont think so.

On the other side automotive manufacturers don't care to provide the service we deserve although we pay a very high premium.Maybe it's time we the common people do something like go on a strike against this damn government or stop buying cars totally unless they remove the tax completely on cars.It should be nationwide and this should become a political agenda and the govt deserves a spanking

Dear Frustrated Armchair Financial/Regulatory Expert,

Facts called. Apparently, India doesn't make enough money from your taxes. Lookup exhibit A: Budget expenditures 2009 country ranks . Indian budget expenditure [which has a budget deficit as well] barely beats Austria and is fairly low when compared to other countries of its size. So, no. For a country of billion people, we actually don't make that much money to spend on a road network that is apparently twice as big as of china's [Roadways(km) 2009 country ranks]

[stanjohn123]

Originally Posted by agentsmith2

Dear Frustrated Armchair Financial/Regulatory Expert,

Facts called. Apparently, India doesn't make enough money from your taxes. Lookup exhibit A: Budget expenditures 2009 country ranks . Indian budget expenditure [which has a budget deficit as well] barely beats Austria and is fairly low when compared to other countries of its size. So, no. For a country of billion people, we actually don't make that much money to spend on a road network that is apparently twice as big as of china's [Roadways(km) 2009 country ranks]

Dear Mr.AgentSmith How can you say India does not make enough money at all.Come on man.I'll just take my state for example Tamil Nadu.Our chief minister in the past 1 Year has given away Free color TV sets to every family owning a ration card here in TN.He has given rice for 1 Rs per kilo and he has also given free laptops to students who have achieved good marks.And the year when opposition party was ruling they gave away free cycles to every student in a family.And during election time they gave away 500 Rs per head to people just to vote for them.Apart from this i also heard that Mayawati had built some statues of herself for display for some 280 crore Rs i guess. Now from where the hell did they get all the money to do these unnecessay stuffs(Maybe the ration stuff was useful for the lower class people) But what about the rest ???

[stanjohn123]

Originally Posted by agentsmith2

(1) No, the govt is not cheating us by taxing our cars.

(2) Politicians and Actors will always buy the richest car. If Mitsubishi costs 10Lakh, they'll upgrade to Carrera. Or Ferrari. They do it in India. They do it in US. They do it in your land of birth - Kuwait. High prices of car have nothing to do with Politicians buying the best and biggest the market can offer.

(3) Now, do you have *any* idea what the parking charges are in any other country ? Pick any US city - and it starts with $2 to $7 an HOUR in the town. That's sweet Rs 100-300 per hour. Show up your car at the service center, and you'll end up paying a minimum of $100. [I paid $500 for a stupid oil change once, but that's a story for another day]. Illegal parking gets your car towed - and you pay $150 or more. Parking tickets? Start at $50.
[citation:]Councils get rich on parking | The Daily Telegraph

Please o please step out of India [or Kuwait with its blood soaked oil dollars] to 'experience' the Total Cost of Ownership [of a car] in the country of your choice before spewing vile on India's financial/taxing structure.

1) First of all MR.smith i don't mind politicians and actors buying the most expensive cars at all.At the same time i know i'm worth buying a Mitsubishi Montero(Pajero) but only at the true value of the car which is 10-12 laks and not 45 laks.I don't care who buys a Ferrari or a Carrera. All i want is car at its right price and true value.

2) As i told even if you sum up your parking charges i think it might come just half as close to the tax we pay for our cars.Besides US is a highly developed country and their standard of living is much much higher than ours.So its basically not much in my view.In fact i dont mind paying hefty parking charges too as long as our cars taxes reduces.

[agentsmith2]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

Dear Mr.AgentSmith How can you say India does not make enough money at all.Come on man.I'll just take my state for example Tamil Nadu.Our chief minister in the past 1 Year has given away Free color TV sets to every family owning a ration card here in TN.He has given rice for 1 Rs per kilo and he has also given free laptops to students who have achieved good marks.And the year when opposition party was ruling they gave away free cycles to every student in a family.And during election time they gave away 500 Rs per head to people just to vote for them.Apart from this i also heard that Mayawati had built some statues of herself for display for some 280 crore Rs i guess. Now from where the hell did they get all the money to do these unnecessay stuffs(Maybe the ration stuff was useful for the lower class people) But what about the rest ???

That's a troll bait - so I'll pass. Please go on, good Sir. Never let facts come in the way of an emotional tirade.

[sgiitk]

As for the road tax & fuel cess, I hear that they mostly go into the consolidated fund of India (road tax to the state equivalent). It is high time the middle class got up and said that all pro poor schemes are fine but a large chunk (say 60%) of the taxes we pay are spent on what we need.

As for the unfortunate BPL families, I will suggest we start a system of paying them the subsidy, and then let them get on with life. Two options - direct credit to bank /post office or a system of food stamps. Let the beneficiary decide what he/she wants to do with the largesse. But then how will the local babudom and politicians survive. Also, make sure that families with more than 2 (or ar most 3) children are denied all benefits.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by agentsmith2

Show up your car at the service center, and you'll end up paying a minimum of $100. [I paid $500 for a stupid oil change once, but that's a story for another day].

You can get an oil change at Goodyear for 15-20$ with a coupon most of the times.

Even at my Mazda dealer, the oil change never cost more than 25$.

I think this is on par with what Maruti changes for a Swift. I assume a Corolla oil change (comparable model to my Mazda Protege) in India would charge far more than this.

[greenhorn]

@ stanjohn, I don't think anybody has the 'right' to own a car.

Maybe as a forum of car enthusiasts might think otherwise, and even I do at times. But I feel that it's a privilege and it has to be earned.