Dealer accused Mercedes of forgery. Top Merc executives apply for bail

inreverse · 15th March 2010, 17:20

IMO. B U Bhandari (BUB) has been in the automotive business for over four decades. In MBIL's point of view they might pull a great deal of coverage within their existing customer base into the favour of the luxury brand.

The Pune TOI has had regular adverts for the new C-Class from BUB as follows: Rs. 36,666/- Low EMI or 0 Down Payment...!!! One heck of a flanking attach!!!

India: From TAX heaven to AXE heaven...!

bj96 · 15th March 2010, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj96

Is it true that "Millenium Mobility", showroom next to MB, is no more a Maruti dealer? ...ToI advt.

Looks like Millennium has lost the Maruti dealership in town too. Just saw a recent advertisement in TOI. They do not figure in the list of dealers.

Dealer accused Mercedes of forgery. Top Merc executives apply for bail-maruti_advt.jpg

Two manufacturers snapping up ties with same dealership- looks fishy indeed.

-BJ

GTO · 16th March 2010, 11:58

There's definitely more than meets the eye here. Mercedes and Maruti, both, have very strict standards for their dealerships to follow. If Maruti has also withdrawn their relationship with Millenium, I'd say its something at the dealers end.

diffsoft · 2nd April 2010, 08:31

Read this about German saints

SEC Charges Daimler AG With Global Bribery; 2010-51; April, 2010.

FT reported this here FT.com / Companies / Automobiles - Daimler pays $185m to settle bribery case

Diamler settled by paying $ 185 million.

Some snippets:

"Germany-based automobile manufacturer engaged in a repeated and systematic practice of paying bribes to foreign government officials to secure business in Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe and the Middle East."

"It is no exaggeration to describe corruption and bribe-paying at Daimler as a standard business practice," said Robert Khuzami, Director of the SEC's Division of Enforcement. ( Bold mine )

"Among others, it paid kickbacks to Iraqi ministries to secure sales of motor vehicles and spare parts under the United Nations Oil for Food Programme."

Here is what the CEO has to say:
“compliance has high priority at Daimler. We have learnt a lot from past experience. Today, we are a better and stronger company, and we will continue to do everything we can to maintain the highest compliance standards”.

Many a times in my career I had been tending to think that it is only the small unknown brand that is more inclined to bribe / cheat - say a car dealer. Big guys are big brands and hence must be clean (

). I have often been proved wrong. This is a case in point.

Thad E Ginathom · 2nd April 2010, 12:14

Isn't that just normal business practice in some parts of the world? Every so often some company gets hauled up for it, but will anything change?

aerohit · 3rd April 2010, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

I don't buy this forgery rubbish. Mercedes is amongst the most renowned automotive marques in the world and they have solid corporate systems in place. I know that, even if a dealer wants to release an advert or change the size of the logo in his dealership, it has to be pre-approved by Mercedes. C'mon, this is an extremely responsible organisation here. I do not believe that Mercedes officials would stoop so low as to forge dealer signatures on a form.

Such big words huh? Now we know.

BBC News - Daimler agrees to pay $185m after admitting bribery

canonball · 3rd April 2010, 14:09

GTO I too was surprised at your naive response in the first one quoted above and your recent post, correct me if I am wrong have you ever worked in a corporate, the front does not know what the back is doing and it is by design

It is another thing if you don't believe it but highly probable as corporate history has shown.

Regarding your post above, it is that old saying "you are known by the company you keep" and lets not fool ourselves both companies were in the relationship with the dealers for years if not decades!! I have taken up issues with Maruti and can tell you it is a cheapskate company that sells cheap cars with cheap products and don't honor their word = scams in my book the only difference is that no one bothers as everything is cheap but in the final analysis you are nothing without your principles and honor. Both the M's are unreliable and scam customers one at the cheapest end of the market and the other at the most hidenistically expensive[/quote]

GTO · 3rd April 2010, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohit

Such big words huh? Now we know.

BBC News - Daimler agrees to pay $185m after admitting bribery

Quote:

Originally Posted by canonball

GTO I too was surprised at your naive response in the first one quoted above and your recent post, correct me if I am wrong have you ever worked in a corporate, the front does not know what the back is doing and it is by design

Please read the entire thread. I did agree with Sawyer in that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I guess the thing to remember is that MB will indulge in big time corruption, but not petty things like the ones they are in the news for!

I'm sure "stuff" happens, but thats at the topmost levels. I don't believe they would forge a signature for the same reason that I wouldn't believe them skimping on a wheel cap to make 5,000 bucks (and cheat the customer of the same).

This is way too petty a matter for Merc to resort to forging signatures. As I stated earlier, there are other ways, WITHIN the legal framework, where they can torture a dealer. Torture so much that the dealer himself would get fed up and forfeit his franchise. Dealerships are, indeed, at the mercy of the brands that they represent.

canonball · 4th April 2010, 22:13

Quote:

Torture so much that the dealer himself would get fed up and forfeit his franchise. Dealerships are, indeed, at the mercy of the brands that they represent.

Not in the case of MB and similar super luxury brands = taking an MB dealership is not the same as say Maruti/Honda or similar low to medium priced car dealership = fleshy part of the price, volume and margin band!

In the case of luxury segment the image in the dealership world/community is very fragile and having seen this over the years with MB it is small world no one can torture anyone as not many new entrants want to take on new MB dealership look who they went to none other than existing set = so they are typically circulating within a small group! I think BMW is the only one who has taken chances with unknown/new startups when considering dealerships.

sukiwa · 18th November 2010, 21:44

Sales tax office in pune has slapped public notice on Millennium motors demanding arrears of Rs. 1,09,52,717 + interest to be paid within next 10 days for period Apr '05 to Mar '08. Not sure whether this relates to Mercedes vehicles or Maruti vehicles as both dealerships for millennium motors were in same premises.

Not sure whether this notice should be treated as regular notice by sales tax dept. after correcting/auditing their records OR does it mean incorrect accounting practices by dealer.

pgsagar · 18th November 2010, 22:59

Mercedes or for that matter any other car maker or for that matter any other business house, Indian or foreign is governed with "Profit and market dominance at all costs" as their underlying motto. These are not missionaries of charity. They always try to lobby/bribe their way to top.

The words such as "clean corporate house", "business ethics", "social responsibilities", "duty towards nation", "high morales", "environmentally conscious" etc. are bull$#*&. These are the words corporates use at their AGMs and their PR men dish out to outside world. They are just as greedy, if not more than, as some cheap, lowly, con, fly-by-night "double-your-money-in-two-months" operator. The only difference is, when a big corporate's scam hits the ceiling fan, they place all the blame on a junior exec who is made the fall guy. So let us not jump to Mercs or any of these other houses' rescue. At the end of they day, they are business men.

shankar.balan · 19th November 2010, 09:39

in most large organizations in the corporate world it is in general, more important to be "seen" as being something or doing something in a proper way as per the rules rather than actually "do" it in a proper way as per the rules.

there are many notable exceptions to the above statement. However it is equally true that somewhere, someplace, someone, in some company, is taking some kind of short cut on account of pressure. Pressure mostly is target led and financially motivated.

Lets not jump to conclusions in a hurry but rather wait for the full facts to emerge.

Daewood · 19th November 2010, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgsagar

The words such as "clean corporate house", "business ethics", "social responsibilities", "duty towards nation", "high morales", "environmentally conscious" etc. are bull$#*&. These are the words corporates use at their AGMs and their PR men dish out to outside world. They are just as greedy, if not more than, as some cheap, lowly, con, fly-by-night "double-your-money-in-two-months" operator. The only difference is, when a big corporate's scam hits the ceiling fan, they place all the blame on a junior exec who is made the fall guy. So let us not jump to Mercs or any of these other houses' rescue. At the end of they day, they are business men.

Slightly off topic:

Few days back read the statement of a top industrialist who claimed he didn't enter a high flying business because, he was asked a bribe of 15C.
He said he didn't want to go to bed thinking, he started something by paying.

Was wondering how he did business for so long in this country, without paying any bribe or funding political party's election funds?

15th March 2010, 17:20	#31
inreverse BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: MH-12.com Posts: 139 Thanked: 11 Times	IMO. B U Bhandari (BUB) has been in the automotive business for over four decades. In MBIL's point of view they might pull a great deal of coverage within their existing customer base into the favour of the luxury brand. The Pune TOI has had regular adverts for the new C-Class from BUB as follows: Rs. 36,666/- Low EMI or 0 Down Payment...!!! One heck of a flanking attach!!! India: From TAX heaven to AXE heaven...!
	() Thanks

16th March 2010, 11:58	#33
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,546 Thanked: 300,788 Times View My Garage	There's definitely more than meets the eye here. Mercedes and Maruti, both, have very strict standards for their dealerships to follow. If Maruti has also withdrawn their relationship with Millenium, I'd say its something at the dealers end.
	() Thanks

2nd April 2010, 08:31	#34
diffsoft BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 773 Thanked: 404 Times	SEC Charges Daimler AG With Global Bribery Read this about German saints SEC Charges Daimler AG With Global Bribery; 2010-51; April, 2010. FT reported this here FT.com / Companies / Automobiles - Daimler pays $185m to settle bribery case Diamler settled by paying $ 185 million. Some snippets: "Germany-based automobile manufacturer engaged in a repeated and systematic practice of paying bribes to foreign government officials to secure business in Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe and the Middle East." "It is no exaggeration to describe corruption and bribe-paying at Daimler as a standard business practice," said Robert Khuzami, Director of the SEC's Division of Enforcement. ( Bold mine ) "Among others, it paid kickbacks to Iraqi ministries to secure sales of motor vehicles and spare parts under the United Nations Oil for Food Programme." Here is what the CEO has to say: “compliance has high priority at Daimler. We have learnt a lot from past experience. Today, we are a better and stronger company, and we will continue to do everything we can to maintain the highest compliance standards”. Many a times in my career I had been tending to think that it is only the small unknown brand that is more inclined to bribe / cheat - say a car dealer. Big guys are big brands and hence must be clean ( ). I have often been proved wrong. This is a case in point. Last edited by diffsoft : 2nd April 2010 at 08:35.
	() Thanks

2nd April 2010, 12:14	#35
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,005 Thanked: 26,445 Times	Isn't that just normal business practice in some parts of the world? Every so often some company gets hauled up for it, but will anything change?
	() Thanks

3rd April 2010, 14:09	#37
canonball Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,466 Thanked: 205 Times View My Garage	GTO I too was surprised at your naive response in the first one quoted above and your recent post, correct me if I am wrong have you ever worked in a corporate, the front does not know what the back is doing and it is by design It is another thing if you don't believe it but highly probable as corporate history has shown. Regarding your post above, it is that old saying "you are known by the company you keep" and lets not fool ourselves both companies were in the relationship with the dealers for years if not decades!! I have taken up issues with Maruti and can tell you it is a cheapskate company that sells cheap cars with cheap products and don't honor their word = scams in my book the only difference is that no one bothers as everything is cheap but in the final analysis you are nothing without your principles and honor. Both the M's are unreliable and scam customers one at the cheapest end of the market and the other at the most hidenistically expensive[/quote] Last edited by canonball : 3rd April 2010 at 14:20.
	() Thanks

18th November 2010, 21:44	#40
sukiwa Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: pune Posts: 2,378 Thanked: 2,562 Times	Sales tax office in pune has slapped public notice on Millennium motors demanding arrears of Rs. 1,09,52,717 + interest to be paid within next 10 days for period Apr '05 to Mar '08. Not sure whether this relates to Mercedes vehicles or Maruti vehicles as both dealerships for millennium motors were in same premises. Not sure whether this notice should be treated as regular notice by sales tax dept. after correcting/auditing their records OR does it mean incorrect accounting practices by dealer.
	() Thanks

18th November 2010, 22:59	#41
pgsagar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vizag Posts: 2,630 Thanked: 3,568 Times View My Garage	Mercedes or for that matter any other car maker or for that matter any other business house, Indian or foreign is governed with "Profit and market dominance at all costs" as their underlying motto. These are not missionaries of charity. They always try to lobby/bribe their way to top. The words such as "clean corporate house", "business ethics", "social responsibilities", "duty towards nation", "high morales", "environmentally conscious" etc. are bull$#*&. These are the words corporates use at their AGMs and their PR men dish out to outside world. They are just as greedy, if not more than, as some cheap, lowly, con, fly-by-night "double-your-money-in-two-months" operator. The only difference is, when a big corporate's scam hits the ceiling fan, they place all the blame on a junior exec who is made the fall guy. So let us not jump to Mercs or any of these other houses' rescue. At the end of they day, they are business men.
	() Thanks

19th November 2010, 09:39	#42
shankar.balan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,368 Thanked: 23,158 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/2 (8)	in most large organizations in the corporate world it is in general, more important to be "seen" as being something or doing something in a proper way as per the rules rather than actually "do" it in a proper way as per the rules. there are many notable exceptions to the above statement. However it is equally true that somewhere, someplace, someone, in some company, is taking some kind of short cut on account of pressure. Pressure mostly is target led and financially motivated. Lets not jump to conclusions in a hurry but rather wait for the full facts to emerge.
	() Thanks