[sbraj]

Originally Posted by shortbread

lets also not forget Mahindra

Originally Posted by shortbread

their overdependance on the Indian market

Scorpio is exported to many countries, including US. Mahindra's presence worldwide here.

Originally Posted by shortbread

their cars have plenty of potential in Africa, Eastern blocs, South East Asia, Middle East

As you said, Tata is targeting those specific markets worldwide.


Mahindra says the following in their international website.

The journey has just begun…

[VeluM]

A colleague of mine went on a trip to Pondicherry with his friends from Bangalore this weekend. They went in two Swifts and a Vista QJD. The first thing he told me when he got back was that the Vista is Amazing! His own words.

No question or mention of quality issues, niggles, rattles or anything. I know it is a Fiat engine and gearbox, but Tata made everything around them, including the suspension. Awesome work, and THE reason they're gaining on Maruti.

IMO Hyundai hasn't really done anything new, as mentioned by GTO. The i20 is a beauty and is selling, but the Really high sticker price makes a lot of people think twice, and more importantly, think of other options.

Even if the Aria starts at 15L ex-showroom, it will sell. Lighter than the Safari, with the (now tried and tested) 2.2VTT and superb packaging, packed to the gills with features, what else do people need?

As far as A.S.S. goes, we have a thread on TBHP running about Skoda A.S.S. And that's worse than anything I've ever heard of, but people still buy Skodas. Especially the more expensive models. The "cheaper" Fabia didn't do too well. Good product = Will sell.

[avishar]

This year is going to be a milestone because after a long time a new manufacturer will crack the 100,000units yearly sales in passenger car space.That is going to be GM.It has been a long time(i think 6-7 years since this happened after Maruti,Hyundai and Tata).
GM and toyota i think has the only chance of beating Hyundai and Tata to no 2.

[airbender]

Good job by Tata's. I sure they will hold on to that position for years and hopefully narrow the gap with maruti. Aria launch would add to the numbers too. I think the nearest competitor for Hyundai will be mahindra once the world SUV and the 5-lakh SUV are launched.

[anmol2k4]

Originally Posted by avishar

This year is going to be a milestone because after a long time a new manufacturer will crack the 100,000units yearly sales in passenger car space.That is going to be GM.It has been a long time(i think 6-7 years since this happened after Maruti,Hyundai and Tata).
GM and toyota i think has the only chance of beating Hyundai and Tata to no 2.

GM ? A company that has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, have ~$20 Billion in debt and who have sold stakes in fuji heavy industries, Isuzu, Suzuki, Fiat and killed Saturn Hummer Pontiac etc. I would be surprised(but not shocked) if they will sell the remaining stake in Indian venture to their Chinese partners.

[xingamazon]

Originally Posted by avishar

This year is going to be a milestone because after a long time a new manufacturer will crack the 100,000units yearly sales in passenger car space.That is going to be GM.It has been a long time(i think 6-7 years since this happened after Maruti,Hyundai and Tata).
GM and toyota i think has the only chance of beating Hyundai and Tata to no 2.

Well thats what every one thought until Ford came up with Figo, and rocked the market.
Bottomline, who ever has good products and kick others out, dont think its a matter of brand / company anymore.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by sbraj

Scorpio is exported to many countries, including US.

They have not started to export to US yet. Mahindra was trying since 2008 and still have not got all the clearances and, now in a litigation with the US based distributor for delay...

[airbender]

Originally Posted by anmol2k4

GM ? A company that has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, have ~$20 Billion in debt and who have sold stakes in fuji heavy industries, Isuzu, Suzuki, Fiat and killed Saturn Hummer Pontiac etc. I would be surprised(but not shocked) if they will sell the remaining stake in Indian venture to their Chinese partners.

Agree with you, partly though. GM doesnot have any india specific product(read a volume product) launch in the near future. They are deep in debt to plan any new product by themselves so colloborating with SAIC. So in the short term say 5-8 years I do not expect GM to match or overtake tata. But GM sales in Usa and China are moving up. I have always considered GM better technologically than ford. In the long term GM has a chance but only if they come with totally GM products not chinese products badged as GM.

I would bet on Toyota though.

[Mevtec]

Originally Posted by VeluM

They went in two Swifts and a Vista QJD. The first thing he told me when he got back was that the Vista is Amazing! His own words.

No question or mention of quality issues, niggles, rattles or anything. I know it is a Fiat engine and gearbox, but Tata made everything around them, including the suspension. Awesome work, and THE reason they're gaining on Maruti.

IMO Hyundai hasn't really done anything new, as mentioned by GTO.

I agree with you.As a previous indica owner and a Swift Vdi owner at present,I was really surprised when I took the test drive of Indica Vista.The Indica has improved a lot.The difference between old and new generation Indigo (Manza) is huge.TATA could have made a "Dzire" like car from Vista,but they didn't.

A friend of mine enquired me about Manza.Manza was the perfect car as per his requirements and budjet.I told him to read Team-Bhp.As a previous TATA owner I explained all the pros and cons of buying a TATA car.The other cars he considered was Linea,i20 and Dzire.He was not confident to buy FIAT.After test driving the Manza he could no longer consider Dzire (cramped and ugly) and i20(too expensive and small).He brought the top end Manza BS4.He is thankful to Team-Bhp.

I still wonder if there is any reason to run after the Swift ignoring Vista.MASS is better than TASS in many places.But in our experience MASS is not a reason to buy a Maruthi anymore.But TATA should improve the quality of the products further.If they do that they can overtake the lazy Maruthi.

IMO both Hyundai and Maruthi has not done enough in product development.They are still intrested only in changing headlights and tail lamps of their main models.We customers are also responsible for this.We are ready to buy any outdated model from a manufacturer if it is cheap or diesel.

[FlyingSpur]

I'm actually quite surprised by this. I thought Hyundai was way ahead of no.3, I guess Tata deserves this success after a fantastic Indica Vista and the Manza (which still looks God awful IMO, but no one can argue that it's a great car and super comfortable).

[pgsagar]

Yes, Vista and Manza are superb. Although I find Swift better looking than Vista, when it comes to sedan, Manza looks waaay better than Dzire. But I am really dismayed at people choosing Dzire over Manza. Just as I am, seeing paople buying i10. I think it is typical Indian herd mentality. I see absolutely nothing in Dzire and i10.

And I am sick and tired of hearing and reading about quality issues, and lack of fit and finish in Tata cars. It is gross exaggeration. Also, I have seen a strange phenomenon with some guys who own multiple cars including some Tata cars. Now every time some small thing goes wrong with a Tata car, these guys shout from rooftops about lack of quality in Tata cars. But the same guys keep their mouths shut when their other "prestigious" brand cars suffer major breakdowns. What do you call this?

[harry10]

Am not surprised.
The way Tata has been shaping up its products its not unexpected.
Maybe in another 5 years they can challenge Maruti's dominance at No.1

Manza is indeed an excellent product as we are using one ourself and except for low mileage i have no issue till now(4k driven so mileage may improve later).

As for tata A.s.S- Last 5 years had no issues so maybe its negative reviews are overrated.

Now lets see the response to Aria and then Prima.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

And I am sick and tired of hearing and reading about quality issues, and lack of fit and finish in Tata cars. It is gross exaggeration. Also, I have seen a strange phenomenon with some guys who own multiple cars including some Tata cars. Now every time some small thing goes wrong with a Tata car, these guys shout from rooftops about lack of quality in Tata cars.

What can I say, other than I agree. If you take a look at the interior of the Vista (the one they advertise as the Drivetech4), you'll see that the quality of fabrics and dashboard plastic is of very good quality. In fact, the door handles, which used to feel cheap (mind you I haven't heard of them breaking off) now feel quite good.

What I'd really like to see on teambhp is that we should call a spade a spade. I'll be the first to say that the initial Indica was a disaster in quality of fitments and engineering (the gearbox was rubbery, the Tata morning sickness with the belts making a screeching sound etc.), but if you check out the current Tata cars, they are now quite comparable to the other well entrenched manufacturers. By the current cars, I mean the Vista and the Manza (the eCS to a certain extent) and not the Safari/Grande Mark - II.


It is now imperative for them to keep this momentum going, release the diesel version of the Nano, upgrade it with a proper hatch etc., make sure that the Aria is right straight out of the box and continually improve the Manza and the Vista.

[FlyingSpur]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

And I am sick and tired of hearing and reading about quality issues, and lack of fit and finish in Tata cars. It is gross exaggeration. Also, I have seen a strange phenomenon with some guys who own multiple cars including some Tata cars. Now every time some small thing goes wrong with a Tata car, these guys shout from rooftops about lack of quality in Tata cars. But the same guys keep their mouths shut when their other "prestigious" brand cars suffer major breakdowns. What do you call this?

Let me give some perspective on this. From the several cars that we own and have owned, two of the significant ones are the Indica DLS (from the first batch of Indica's ever) and the Indica V2 DLS (the first facelift which got clear lens headlamps).

Now I have no reservation in saying that the former was the worst car we've ever owned. The quality was simply pathetic, it sounded louder than a truck, it barely moved, and service was God awful. I drove this car while I was learning, and our 800 was like a Bentley in comparison. But think about it, this was pardonable given that it was India's first shot at making an indigenous passenger car. OTOH the V2 was a world of difference. By then, the engine had gotten a bit more bearable, but the service had improved, the interior quality had improved (which means that stuff still fell off, much wayyyy lesser than the old car) and this car is still serving us diligently as a highway mile muncher with 70k+ km in ~4 years.

Having said this, I've actually seen the improvement in Tata firsthand, and that's the real reason why I'm in awe of the Vista / Manza levels of fit and finish. I think I'm sorta qualified to make that statement. And I'm STILL a big fan of our Indica even though it's shown the door by our i20 in terms of interior fit and finish, and comparing the Beemer's diesel is just gross injustice.

Yup, I'm a Tata supporter. Not a fan, but a supporter.

[himanshugoswami]

having owned three tata cars in the past and having had a good experience with one (indica LSi- cheap car, low expectations, ran well, never let me down) and not so good with other two (indca turbo and Safari), I am happy to see the progress TML is making.

Despite my bad experience with Tata, I will still be open to buying another Tata car- heck- my heart still yearns for the Safari.

the only grouse i have with TML is not their products but the TASS- seriously they are the weakest link in the chain- the products are not bad and are consistently getting better, but i hope that the service levels improve as well.

if that happens, then nothing can stop TML from overtaking MUL.

P.S. am eagerly awaiting for the new Safari and may end up being a repeat customer once again for TML is the service aspect is taken care of by then.