[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

Have you felt the body panels on an Innova? They go straight in if you even lean against it casually.

I too feel, Honda does a better job with build than Toyota and Suzuki.

The "flimsy" Swift is heavier than the Palio. Shows where the real engineering has gone.

Swift is really flimsy. Once I had a chance to look inside the door panel of the Swift. That was when me and my friend went to an accessories shop to upgrade our front speakers. What I saw in both the cars made me proud of my Palio.

I've ridden in a Palio 1.6 once. Didn't feel anything special - not even close to being electric like the Civic.

Maybe you didn't drive enough to form a decisive opinion. I had driven my Palio in speeds exceeding 150kmph, and never felt even an iota of nervousness. Can't say the same about my Civic, although I haven't done many miles in it. Civic feels miles ahead of my Optra, but falls short of the Palio. Well, my S10 had a ultra stiff suspension.

[mkh]

Originally Posted by clevermax

Well, that might be probably because you were using these cars extensively and not using other cars to see how they feel in terms of build quality. But yea, I agree that they have good build quality.

Not really- my dad used a maruti alto extensively..it gave excellent support but clearly was not on par with the santro...
I have many friends and relatives who have different cars and my assessment is based on comparison with them. The matiz was a solidly built car, i think that ranked highest in the hatchbacks...and the Opel Astra in the sedans...
Skoda has a higher build quality than many other manufacturers - the fabia scores over all in that segment..

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

I've ridden in a Palio 1.6 once. Didn't feel anything special - not even close to being electric like the Civic.

I don't know what to say. May not be close to Civic but if you didn't feel anything special after been ridden on it, at least drive it and see.

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Civic feels miles ahead of my Optra, but falls short of the Palio. Well, my S10 had a ultra stiff suspension.

Coming from an owner of both, that pretty much sums it up.

EDIT: I love the stiff suspension in my Palio too. That didn't change after driving the Punto either. Well, Palio's is better.

[Pro-Idiot]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Swift is really flimsy. Once I had a chance to look inside the door panel of the Swift.

Dear Civic-sense,
I do not believe that the swift is flimsy, my cousin got hit by a truck from the side (drivers side) slightly off centre to the rear and the car was pushed away by at least 30 meters, and guess what: He drove the car to my house (25 km) right after. It was banged up but not enough to stop the car running whichout any major sounds!

I do believe that its not about how much metal but about 'where'.
Just for the facts file, I could not find fiat palio on the NCAP site, alhough a sedan version was crash tested and got an equivalent 3 star rating. Swift got 4 stars (afcourse with the airbags) athough I do believe that still equates to a 'safer' and hence better build.

I do believe I have a bias to the swift, since I will get mine on Sunday, hence posted only the facts.

Cheers!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Pro-Idiot

Dear Civic-sense,
Swift got 4 stars (afcourse with the airbags) athough I do believe that still equates to a 'safer' and hence better build.

But is it same Swift that we get here? I guess the tested version had side airbags and all, which is not there in the high end Swift here.

[supremeBaleno]

IMO it is kinda tough to quantify build-quality. Reliability is more straight-forward to measure - in my books, a reliable car is one that requires only scheduled visits (every 5K or 10K kms as the case may be) to the service-station and does not break down (atleast in the first 5 years of ownership, if not more - my benchmark is 10years).

But how to quantify build-quality ? Is it the thud or the strong feeling or not-denting-when-leaned-on ? Thicker sheet-metal for panels or more kerb-weight need not necessarily mean much, as I learnt some months ago.

Just before the Perungudi toll on OMR, a Mahindra pickup took a sudden U-turn in front of me. Though I was doing only 40kmph or so, since he practically jumped in front of me, inspite of braking hard, I stopped only after hitting the driver door. I jumped out expecting expensive damages to my car - broken LHS headlight assembly, bent side panel, possible damage to bonnet etc.

But all I had was a slightly dislocated front bumper (left side only), parking light fused. The pickup (supposedly more rugged and thicker metal) on the other hand had a serious dent on the door. He wanted me to pay him for getting that rectified. Ofcourse I asked him to go take a hike.

Given that the Baleno weighs all of 975kgs and by extension 'flimsy' or 'low build-quality', I was quite surprised.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by Pro-Idiot

Dear Civic-sense,
I do not believe that the swift is flimsy, my cousin got hit by a truck from the side (drivers side) slightly off centre to the rear and the car was pushed away by at least 30 meters, and guess what: He drove the car to my house (25 km) right after. It was banged up but not enough to stop the car running whichout any major sounds!

You cousin was lucky, and that is it. BTW, does not Swift have a fire prevention system? FPS should have cut off the fuel lines when the crash occured.

I do believe that its not about how much metal but about 'where'.
Just for the facts file, I could not find fiat palio on the NCAP site, alhough a sedan version was crash tested and got an equivalent 3 star rating. Swift got 4 stars (afcourse with the airbags) athough I do believe that still equates to a 'safer' and hence better build.

Palio was not Euro NCAP tested, as it is not sold in the UK. Ther is no Palio sedan sold in the UK either. Which sedan are you talking about?

I do believe I have a bias to the swift, since I will get mine on Sunday, hence posted only the facts.

Congrats on your purchase. Swift is good to drive. But, I have a bias against Swift. And that is because I have quite a bad experience with its quality. You can read about that in another thread.

[Pro-Idiot]

Originally Posted by Matt

But is it same Swift that we get here? I guess the tested version had side airbags and all, which is not there in the high end Swift here.

Hi Matt,
I am not an expert on the technicals, but I do believe that the steel moulds and material are the same across the board, its only the plastics and instrumentation, the seats etc. that change.( needs verification).

I did mension that the swift tested does have airbags ( you are right it did have side airbags also) but so did the palio that was tested, I was mearly commenting in the relative.

Cheers

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Pro-Idiot

I do not believe that the swift is flimsy, my cousin got hit by a truck from the side (drivers side) slightly off centre to the rear and the car was pushed away by at least 30 meters, and guess what: He drove the car to my house (25 km) right after. It was banged up but not enough to stop the car running whichout any major sounds!

You dont want me to believe it, do you? For a car to be dragged 30 meters after a side collision, the truck must be travelling atleast 50-60 kmph. Forget driving right after, I wonder if it can even be towed properly.

[Glifford]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Palio was not Euro NCAP tested, as it is not sold in the UK. Ther is no Palio sedan sold in the UK either. Which sedan are you talking about?

Actually the versions (sedan (Siena) /pickup (Strada)) etc. of the Palio have been tested across in other countries. And their ratings have been compared against the defacto Euro NCAP standard.

Here is some data: Fiat Palio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[manishkapadia]

I would called build quality as the ability of car over time to remain in the state like when it had left the showroom on the first day with the least amount of visits to the car doctor ( garage )

For this i would include engineering , structural , instruments as well as oem fitments on the vehicle.

It will me common knowledge that a civic would feel more stable on highway than a santro . So i wouldnt consider that as basis for comparison.

[supremeBaleno]

Since the impact was on the side (not the front, where engine resides), I would think it should not be a big deal for a car (not just a Swift, but almost any modern reliable car) to be drive-able even after the accident.

I don't have a personal car-experience to quote from in this regard, but when my friend had a hi-speed accident on my CD100 bike (he hit a low-wall at night), inspite of extensive damages to the bike including both wheel rims bent, I could start the bike and drive it home without any problems (except for the wobbling wheels).

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Since the impact was on the side (not the front, where engine resides), I would think it should not be a big deal for a car (not just a Swift, but almost any modern reliable car) to be drive-able even after the accident.

I dont think you realize the gravity of the impact which would drag a 1 tonne vehicle with four 165mm (atleast) rubber patches on the road for a good 30 meters? If not the car, the suspension and tyres would a wreck.
And you must also realize that it was a truck which hit the car at the first place.

Have you seen the season 14 first Episode of topgear where a truck reversing at barely 5 kmph (can lesser but not more) almost destroyed a brand new Dacia Sandero?

There is no way on earth I can believe that statement.

[supremeBaleno]

Just because the car was hit at the side, does it necessarily mean that the car has to slide sideways for 30 ms ? And even if it did, it is perfectly possible that you could still drive down with that car - damage to tyres and suspension not withstanding.

Each accident is different. And what we see on TV as staged accidents need not necessarily emulate real-life scenarios. I do see your point, but I also think it is possible that things happened the way Pro_Idiot describes it.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Just because the car was hit at the side, does it necessarily mean that the car has to slide sideways for 30 ms ?

I am not making it up... the original poster has said it.