[Abhi_Automobile]

Now that's a new definition for engineering.

Hey, I think the thread is confusing.
Are you asking if one would prefer a better(segment?) car or a car with lot of gizmos (from a lower segment?). There is nothing about 'engineering' here.

Abhi, Polo is not exactly in the Vista segment. Polo is a premium hatch, and hence a much better car. IMO, same case with Altis. If you were comparing with Octavia, then fine, but Laura in India is placed higher than the Altis.

I think we are loosing the essence. All I am trying to say is that is the basic Quality/Engineering (call it whatever you want) more important or is the number of features for the same price seems very lucrative. For e.g. with 9 lacs budget you can try to get a car with better quality levels (ANHC/Vento- Maybe in their basic trim levels, say S-MT of ANHC). For the same price, you can also get a SX4 fully loaded with climate control/Alloys/leather seats etc. What will you get? A car that is engineered better but lacks features or a car that has more features but lacks some of the engineering finesse of the first car?

OK, I would prefer a Laura or a Polo with all the bells and whistles.. Now what?

Your'e damn right! But at what price? A POLO Highline with all the features will set you back by much more than the other cars would. With this logic, I will always like to buy 'The Holy Trinity' cars. In real world, we tend to have fixed budgets. In those budgets, you often have to make choices. Of course you get better quality/engineering+ features with more money spent. How many of us have open ended budgets

[ajay_satpute]

First of all, NICE topic. The argument will never end and the world is divided (mostly) into half over Quality vs Quantity.

I own a Vista, so let me talk about that one first, since it was mentioned by you. Vista sure has some niggles, but it surely is not bad engineering. Infact, Vista was the first major leap forward for Tata. If you compare Indica with Vista, its sometimes hard to believe that Vista is also made by Tata. But, I agree that it lacks finesse of a European car like the Polo. Since, it was going to be my first car and budget was limited, I opted for Quantity rather than Quality. But, to my surprise, quality is not too bad.

Otherwise, most examples mentioned here are true.

IMHO, Fiat cars are the only one which create their own category. Fiat cars in India, especially Linea & Punto, are very well built with respect to engineering and are extreme VFM with respect to their price. So they have Quality (well people can argue on this and I am sure it will happen) and Quantity both. But, they have a new category of problem, A.S.S. and poor marketing and sales team.

Finally, I would vote for QUALITY over quantity in my next car. Technically sound and safer car is much better than feature-rich car.

[dot]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

The argument will never end and the world is divided (mostly) into half over Quality vs Quantity.

Finally, I would vote for QUALITY over quantity in my next car. Technically sound and safer car is much better than feature-rich car.

A lot of you are preferring quality over features. Why cant we have both?

[Abhi_Automobile]

Since, it was going to be my first car and budget was limited, I opted for Quantity rather than Quality. But, to my surprise, quality is not too bad.

Exactly my point. You had a fixed budget (as most of us have) and made the best possible choice you you. I respect that. If you had 10 lakhs (as free money to buy car), maybe you have bought Vento TDI (or whichever one you like) but that's usually not the case.

A lot of you are preferring quality over features. Why cant we have both?

We can. New PASSAT/CIVIC (when it came)/Vento TDI? are some cars which combine good quality with decent level equipment at relatively reasonable price (each for its segment). The point is, how many such cars do we have Not too many, I guess. In most cases, we have to decide do we need a fancy car (with goodies) or do we need a solidly engineered (if relatively basic) car.

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by dot

A lot of you are preferring quality over features. Why cant we have both?

@dot: I agree with you totally. But why CANT we have both? Because we can not get them so easily. Lets talk about the C segment. ANHC is the best petrol car in India, but it has almost zero features and it costs a lot comparatively. Vento has all the bells and whistles, but it is not that fun-to-drive compared to ANHC. Fiesta(Classic) is the best driver's car, but it lacks finesse of Vento. Verna is loaded with features, but it is unstable. SX4 has all features, but lacks in quality.

I think you have to jump to D segment and above directly to get everything under the Sun, though I am not too sure about it. When my friend bought his Laura, he was extremely confused between Civic, Cruze and Laura. Finally he bought Laura because it was great on quality.

[dot]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

The point is, how many such cars do we have Not too many, I guess.

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Because we can not get them so easily.

All of us are saying the same thing. But you will agree that over years the choice has become better. Today we dont have great options. However, at least we can think of more balanced options these days in almost all segments. Place this against the options even 4 years back.

I feel that New Swift and New Ford Fiesta are going to rewrite the B and C segments.

Healthy competition is the key.

[Viraat13]

I don't know what option I went for with my car. (Opel Corsa Swing 1.6 Limited Edition). I think it leans more towards better engineered.

It's a German car, so it has solid mechanicals, a tough heavy body, is very good at high speed and other German/European qualities. It has a nice amount of features too - 6 CD changer, power windows, aluminum highlights on the dash, central locking. (Basic features compared to the standards of today, but suits my needs.)

In my opinion, at that particular time when we bought the car, there was nothing better at that price point. But then again, better means different things to different people.

In conclusion, better engineered is the priority. Rest is all secondary.

[mdsaab]

Some manufacturers just dont let us have both.
Even our own Honda for example.
Now you get cruise control in the civic, along with usb, etc.
And so gone are the spare alloy wheel, 6 cd changer.
Also i feel the quality has gone down in the current civic. Like if you look at the buttons for selecting the fm/cd option. They are no longer of chrome finish. The current ones are of some cheap plastic finish

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

... All I am trying to say is that is the basic Quality/Engineering (call it whatever you want) more important or is the number of features for the same price seems very lucrative....

OK, Abhi, I now I get what you are trying to convey.

As for me, its always the better car. Well, I heard that some model of i10 costs upwards of 6 lacs?. If so, I would definitely prefer the petrol engine'd Fiesta. Not because, its a sedan, but because, you'll enjoy every moment spent in the car.

For me, 'joy' means, throwing the car into every corner available, revving the nuts of the mill, climbing up the ghats pedal to metal.. et al. Rather than, pushing a switch to move your seat, or, spraying clean your HL's etc..

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

When my friend bought his Laura, he was extremely confused between Civic, Cruze and Laura. Finally he bought Laura because it was great on quality.

And perhaps he has to deal with inconsistent or unreliable ***

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

But, they have a new category of problem, A.S.S. and poor marketing and sales team.
Finally, I would vote for QUALITY over quantity in my next car. Technically sound and safer car is much better than feature-rich car.

IMHO, the third dimension of feel good factor is also very important. This would probably be the deciding factor for a lot of people who are unable to decide between quantity and quality on offer (I am one of them too)

[Abhi_Automobile]

For me, 'joy' means,

On a lighter note:

'JOY is BMW':- But is costs a lot of moolah!

[avisidhu]

On a lighter note, a friend of mine says that any vehicle below 8 lakhs is not an automobile, its just a 'jugaad' on wheels

But I do agree with the statement that optimum mix of features and solid engineering only begins at the 'D' segment vehicles. Anything below that and you have to chose your set of compromise. For me, a better engineered, niggle free vehicle would be a prime requirement.

I can live without bells and whistles, more so because I haven't got used to them having driven/seated in lowly marutis for most of my adult life

Although I do admit that lack of features in the ANHC frustates sometimes, and feel in retrospective that I should have given buying a used Civic a lot more thought than I originally did.

[Abhi_Automobile]

On a lighter note, a friend of mine says that any vehicle below 8 lakhs is not an automobile, its just a 'jugaad' on wheels

We Punjabis are way too brash for most people's liking

But I do agree with the statement that optimum mix of features and solid engineering only begins at the 'D' segment vehicles. Anything below that and you have to chose your set of compromise. For me, a better engineered, niggle free vehicle would be a prime requirement.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. The lowest priced cars that seem to give me the right mix are pre owned Civic (a new one is insanely priced)/ new upcoming Jetta. In a segment lower, Vento TDI comes closest but it doesn't pull your heart strings much, does it?

[r_devakumar]

For me practicality and budget has higher priority than the better engineered one. However, i will be soon going for my second car, and my choice will be strictly on a better engineered car then.

[avisidhu]

Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile

We Punjabis are way too brash for most people's liking


Unfortunately, I have to agree. The lowest priced cars that seem to give me the right mix are pre owned Civic (a new one is insanely priced)/ new upcoming Jetta. In a segment lower, Vento TDI comes closest but it doesn't pull your heart strings much, does it?

Abhi, thanks for pointing it out, now that I read my comment I actually realised I came across as rude perhaps. Let me clarify that the friend of mine owns a Vista, and the statement was more in aspiration terms as in, how much we would love to have higher segment vehicles. I too had(and continue to have) a 14 year old zen. Apologies if I hurt any sentiments

And do agree with your statement on Vento too. I had such high hopes from the vehicle, never expected it to look so plane jane. Nevertheless it still is the best diesel sedan under 10 Lakhs, no question about it.

Coming back to the topic, there are features that are complex and might add to the cost factor significantly. What's irritating is simple feautures which just indicate laziness or arrogance on the manufacturer's part. Lack of ACC in ANHC being one example. But the one that takes the cake is that power windows stop working the moment we switch off the engine, whereas Verna has a 30 second gap during which the windows can be operated. Or does Honda assume that ANHC owners never lower the car windows