Preparing a stock car for TSD endurance rallying

vampire · 4th November 2009, 18:25

@supercars - thanks . So you think even taking the santro on the explore mode is not wise?
@ SUdev - Do you second his opinion?
Experts - Please comment?
Cause I spoke to someone from northern motorsports and he said I wouldn't be having a problem. though he said undercarriage guard would be required (Read : Sudev's post regarding desert storm)
I'm really in two minds now.

sudev · 4th November 2009, 21:15

@Vampire: Santro in Xplore is perfectly okay. Good clearance and short wheel base is better than C segment cars. Even M800 have done it in past. Last year Varun Monga was in a Zen with three (or was that four) guys on board and they were finishers if I recall correctly.

vampire · 5th November 2009, 04:32

Sudev
Thanks.
SO tell me you think the car will take a lot of beating in Xplore or not too much. What about the desert off-road modes. Do you think carrying a couple of planks will help in getting the car out incase gets stuck in sands?

@ I know I should put this in the tire threads : But guys please brainstorm
I plan to drive to Delhi from calcutta and then further on to desert storm and back to calcutta. Thats 1500x2 + 2500 for teh storm. so 6000 on my odometer. I plan to put new tires before leaving calcutta . So in my opinion there shouldn't be a problem. Gyaan Please

MileCruncher · 5th November 2009, 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by vampire

Sudev
Thanks.
SO tell me you think the car will take a lot of beating in Xplore or not too much. What about the desert off-road modes. Do you think carrying a couple of planks will help in getting the car out incase gets stuck in sands?

@ I know I should put this in the tire threads : But guys please brainstorm
I plan to drive to Delhi from calcutta and then further on to desert storm and back to calcutta. Thats 1500x2 + 2500 for teh storm. so 6000 on my odometer. I plan to put new tires before leaving calcutta . So in my opinion there shouldn't be a problem. Gyaan Please

I think you should get your new tyres to run-in during the before the storm. I would ideally sugest fitting the tyres a week before the journey, run-in in town and the Kolkata - Delhi journey which is going to a fast paced on. Just make sure, you don't get any cuts on the tyres.

supercars · 5th November 2009, 08:39

Just put new tyres when you are going to leave as you will need all the advantage of grip that the car can give you.

My Advice is not to go for Michelin as they have a bad tendency to slip on dust and sand. I have been putting Michelin Tyres for a Long Time as my concern is the rain.

Vampire you should also be ready to make huge expenses when you return home. The car will be in battered state. I have personal experience of this. :(

Please make sure before you leave that your alignment and suspension are in good shape.

Please change the following things too as a precaution : Air Filter, Fuel Filter, Engine Oil, Coolant, Brake Oil.

Please get your Brake Pads checked if they are medium-low then I advise changing them.

Buy a Good Hydraulic Jack and make sure that the wheel nuts are perfect and not rounded off.

If you think I am paranoid and you are not ready to these expenses then my advice is STRONGLY NOT TO GO. I speak from Experience and that cannot be overcome by talent or skill.

sudev - I am sure you know about the costs involved in rallying and the biggest cost is your life. I do not want to make rallying a Bad Dream for everyone here so will never write totally about my bad experience. I have equally Bad Experience of the Service Team and even to my shock of the Officials.

My Personal Experience has been very simple : See Rallying on TV

Even with Sponsorship I would never go back to Rallying as there is NO SAFETY(Ambulance with No Water and a Dangerous Driver, sometimes no Crane or Ambulance) as you are supposed to drive as fast as possible.

vampire · 5th November 2009, 09:20

@ supercars : I really appreciate your concern! There are not many who care these days.
Ok so expenses :
Guys can we help each other(or just me) identify the cost centres for rallying and specifically for me.
would appreciate your specific inputs

1. Entry : 20 k
2. Tires and preparation : 25k (master switch, sump/fuel tk guard, engine decarbing, sump flushing, changing all fluids, electrical checks, shock spacers etc)
3. FUEL : as per actuals
4. In and around Delhi/Desert : 20K
5. Returning and serving : Supercars suggest the magic figure ? I think 10-15k
6. Wanted to get hold of a GPS : northern motorsports suggest garmin 76csx. Checking the price out : 20k.

. Can anyone suggest anything else which of course can be used
Appreciate all of you taking time for team-bhp
GODSPEED

I speak from Experience and that cannot be overcome by talent or skill.
@supercars

Did I ever say anything about talent or skill. I dont call myself a talented or skillfull driver. Just the average next door driver. Thats why I call for all of you guys' experience cause no amount of talent or skill(IMO) can beat experience

NOS Power · 5th November 2009, 10:36

@vampire, are u based in Kolkata? if yes then without taking estimates i suggest u directly go to people who do whatever is required for competing in the Desert Storm or Raid.

And i can help u in that regard.

sudev · 5th November 2009, 10:41

@supercars: Unless you share your good and bad - especially latter - how can the people who manage improve? If you think by holding back you are doing good think again. I for one would like to read your narrative.

First timers, honey moon couples, all girls team, oldies team...they are all average Joe and still ended up enjoying. If you do not end up enjoying then may be this sport was not for you.

Motorsport is dangerous but can be planned to minimise dangers. Speed is dangerous and the driver has to recognise his ability and speed he wants to go. And TSD / Xplore / Adventure are designed for just that. Rest you can drive with all the safety in mind and still get hit by another....Sorry for OT rant.

supercars · 6th November 2009, 08:32

btw sudev from your post, I can infer that you think I am scared of going fast or I do not have the ability. Sadly for you that is not the case. This is not bragging. I just had to weigh the risk versus reward ratio and found the risk to be too high.

btw Why are you fitting Spacers to your Shocks ? I heard from someone not to do that as the car becomes quiet difficult to drive as it has a tendency to spin. :(

One Advice for all here is that if an official comes to you advocating retiring from the event and if you want to continue then continue.

Vampire who esle will be coming with you in the car ?

NOS Power not that it is my Total Concern but would you charge Vampire for an Estimate, if yes then tell him by PM how much.

I think it is better to get an estimate of all expenses before going.

I will not be of much help on costs as I do not own a Santro and I have heard that the older models spares are not readily available.

vampire · 6th November 2009, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by supercars

One Advice for all here is that if an official comes to you advocating retiring from the event and if you want to continue then continue.

.

could you substantiate that a little bit more

no partner yet. guess not many would be interested on such a risky venture that too on such a low on safety car. still searching here and there. lets see how it turns up. posted for a partner on the desert storm thread but hardly a reply . yes, i donot have a suv/esteem/cedia/civic other homolgated(is that the correct word?) cars. but who says i want to win. i just want to experience the effort in as safe and practical manner as possible and as the circumstances permit

and yes --- GODSPEED

supercars · 7th November 2009, 12:35

Who said a Civic is homoglated ?

When I took part in the event, the main official(I have forgotten the term for it) was coming up with all fake stuff like, "You cannot continue the event on the Third Day as I had to retire on the Second Day". I told them I know the Rules and I know that I have to Super Rally so they backed down.

Later that same day my Co-Driver had got into a problem of dehydration(which was also the officials fault) and they tried to convince my Co-Driver that it is too risky and should tell me and the officals that we are retiring.

The Last Day of the Rally, my Co-Driver was very determined and we did 2 Full Stages; Unfortunately with a Puncture so the Time was not so great and thereafter was followed with More Bad Luck and I will like to stop typing here as it is getting too long OT.

Last but not least if you are unable to find any Partner (and that does not include women. No women please if possible.) then DO NOT GO.

sudev · 7th November 2009, 14:42

@supercars: A person getting dehyderated is not his but officials fault? Your insinuation that all rallies and all officials are same is getting unbearable. You are always right and know the rules but can not name designation of official? Start a new thread with appropriate topic for discussion which is going OT here.

@All: Super rally format allows those who could not complete one leg (say due to mechanical issues which get sorted out later) to continue taking part but only for prizes (if any) for the legs. However to do so you have to inform organisers following laid out procedures. AFAIK Raid does not allow any form of super rally format. Storm allows you to take start twice but at cost of laid down penalties.

Back to OP's topic - Yes vampire doing a rally, especially the first time, is all about experience and not just winning.

I do not know who you spoke with at Northern Motorsport but AFAIK engine guard is not mandatory but recommended option. On personal note I would only use guard on Raid and not the Storm.

vampire · 8th November 2009, 16:11

Guys
Project canceled. Just too many people are advising against it.
Guess got to wait till I get myself some other car.
Lets see though
Thank You all for guiding me and giving all of us an idea regarding the topic. We can continue discussing if anyone else is interested or Mods can close the thread if they feel so.

GODSPEED

MileCruncher · 8th November 2009, 19:41

Rahul,
I suggest you take this as the first steps towards rallying. May be you can prepare through this year and take your steed (whichever it is ) for Raid this year.

Don't Give up!!!

Cheers

vampire · 9th November 2009, 14:12

AB
Its crazy man. The world's just filled up with people who find reasons to not do something.
ANyways IMO raid is tougher than the desert right?
what do you guys feel?

4th November 2009, 18:25	#31
vampire BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: "Calcutta" Posts: 63 Thanked: 11 Times	@supercars - thanks . So you think even taking the santro on the explore mode is not wise? @ SUdev - Do you second his opinion? Experts - Please comment? Cause I spoke to someone from northern motorsports and he said I wouldn't be having a problem. though he said undercarriage guard would be required (Read : Sudev's post regarding desert storm) I'm really in two minds now.
	() Thanks

4th November 2009, 21:15	#32
sudev Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,838 Thanked: 3,179 Times	@Vampire: Santro in Xplore is perfectly okay. Good clearance and short wheel base is better than C segment cars. Even M800 have done it in past. Last year Varun Monga was in a Zen with three (or was that four) guys on board and they were finishers if I recall correctly.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 04:32	#33
vampire BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: "Calcutta" Posts: 63 Thanked: 11 Times	carrying on further Sudev Thanks. SO tell me you think the car will take a lot of beating in Xplore or not too much. What about the desert off-road modes. Do you think carrying a couple of planks will help in getting the car out incase gets stuck in sands? @ I know I should put this in the tire threads : But guys please brainstorm I plan to drive to Delhi from calcutta and then further on to desert storm and back to calcutta. Thats 1500x2 + 2500 for teh storm. so 6000 on my odometer. I plan to put new tires before leaving calcutta . So in my opinion there shouldn't be a problem. Gyaan Please
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 08:39	#35
supercars BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bombay Posts: 484 Thanked: 27 Times	Just put new tyres when you are going to leave as you will need all the advantage of grip that the car can give you. My Advice is not to go for Michelin as they have a bad tendency to slip on dust and sand. I have been putting Michelin Tyres for a Long Time as my concern is the rain. Vampire you should also be ready to make huge expenses when you return home. The car will be in battered state. I have personal experience of this. :( Please make sure before you leave that your alignment and suspension are in good shape. Please change the following things too as a precaution : Air Filter, Fuel Filter, Engine Oil, Coolant, Brake Oil. Please get your Brake Pads checked if they are medium-low then I advise changing them. Buy a Good Hydraulic Jack and make sure that the wheel nuts are perfect and not rounded off. If you think I am paranoid and you are not ready to these expenses then my advice is STRONGLY NOT TO GO. I speak from Experience and that cannot be overcome by talent or skill. sudev - I am sure you know about the costs involved in rallying and the biggest cost is your life. I do not want to make rallying a Bad Dream for everyone here so will never write totally about my bad experience. I have equally Bad Experience of the Service Team and even to my shock of the Officials. My Personal Experience has been very simple : See Rallying on TV Even with Sponsorship I would never go back to Rallying as there is NO SAFETY(Ambulance with No Water and a Dangerous Driver, sometimes no Crane or Ambulance) as you are supposed to drive as fast as possible.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 09:20	#36
vampire BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: "Calcutta" Posts: 63 Thanked: 11 Times	@ supercars : I really appreciate your concern! There are not many who care these days. Ok so expenses : Guys can we help each other(or just me) identify the cost centres for rallying and specifically for me. would appreciate your specific inputs 1. Entry : 20 k 2. Tires and preparation : 25k (master switch, sump/fuel tk guard, engine decarbing, sump flushing, changing all fluids, electrical checks, shock spacers etc) 3. FUEL : as per actuals 4. In and around Delhi/Desert : 20K 5. Returning and serving : Supercars suggest the magic figure ? I think 10-15k 6. Wanted to get hold of a GPS : northern motorsports suggest garmin 76csx. Checking the price out : 20k. . Can anyone suggest anything else which of course can be used Appreciate all of you taking time for team-bhp GODSPEED I speak from Experience and that cannot be overcome by talent or skill. @supercars Did I ever say anything about talent or skill. I dont call myself a talented or skillfull driver. Just the average next door driver. Thats why I call for all of you guys' experience cause no amount of talent or skill(IMO) can beat experience Last edited by Jaggu : 5th November 2009 at 09:56. Reason: Back to back posts, use multi quote or wait for mod approval to edit the original post. thanks
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 10:36	#37
NOS Power BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Kolkata Posts: 404 Thanked: 79 Times View My Garage	@vampire, are u based in Kolkata? if yes then without taking estimates i suggest u directly go to people who do whatever is required for competing in the Desert Storm or Raid. And i can help u in that regard.
	() Thanks

5th November 2009, 10:41	#38
sudev Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,838 Thanked: 3,179 Times	@supercars: Unless you share your good and bad - especially latter - how can the people who manage improve? If you think by holding back you are doing good think again. I for one would like to read your narrative. First timers, honey moon couples, all girls team, oldies team...they are all average Joe and still ended up enjoying. If you do not end up enjoying then may be this sport was not for you. Motorsport is dangerous but can be planned to minimise dangers. Speed is dangerous and the driver has to recognise his ability and speed he wants to go. And TSD / Xplore / Adventure are designed for just that. Rest you can drive with all the safety in mind and still get hit by another....Sorry for OT rant.
	() Thanks

6th November 2009, 08:32	#39
supercars BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bombay Posts: 484 Thanked: 27 Times	btw sudev from your post, I can infer that you think I am scared of going fast or I do not have the ability. Sadly for you that is not the case. This is not bragging. I just had to weigh the risk versus reward ratio and found the risk to be too high. btw Why are you fitting Spacers to your Shocks ? I heard from someone not to do that as the car becomes quiet difficult to drive as it has a tendency to spin. :( One Advice for all here is that if an official comes to you advocating retiring from the event and if you want to continue then continue. Vampire who esle will be coming with you in the car ? NOS Power not that it is my Total Concern but would you charge Vampire for an Estimate, if yes then tell him by PM how much. I think it is better to get an estimate of all expenses before going. I will not be of much help on costs as I do not own a Santro and I have heard that the older models spares are not readily available. Last edited by supercars : 6th November 2009 at 08:35. Reason: Wanted to add something
	() Thanks

7th November 2009, 12:35	#41
supercars BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bombay Posts: 484 Thanked: 27 Times	Who said a Civic is homoglated ? When I took part in the event, the main official(I have forgotten the term for it) was coming up with all fake stuff like, "You cannot continue the event on the Third Day as I had to retire on the Second Day". I told them I know the Rules and I know that I have to Super Rally so they backed down. Later that same day my Co-Driver had got into a problem of dehydration(which was also the officials fault) and they tried to convince my Co-Driver that it is too risky and should tell me and the officals that we are retiring. The Last Day of the Rally, my Co-Driver was very determined and we did 2 Full Stages; Unfortunately with a Puncture so the Time was not so great and thereafter was followed with More Bad Luck and I will like to stop typing here as it is getting too long OT. Last but not least if you are unable to find any Partner (and that does not include women. No women please if possible.) then DO NOT GO.
	() Thanks

7th November 2009, 14:42	#42
sudev Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 3,838 Thanked: 3,179 Times	@supercars: A person getting dehyderated is not his but officials fault? Your insinuation that all rallies and all officials are same is getting unbearable. You are always right and know the rules but can not name designation of official? Start a new thread with appropriate topic for discussion which is going OT here. @All: Super rally format allows those who could not complete one leg (say due to mechanical issues which get sorted out later) to continue taking part but only for prizes (if any) for the legs. However to do so you have to inform organisers following laid out procedures. AFAIK Raid does not allow any form of super rally format. Storm allows you to take start twice but at cost of laid down penalties. Back to OP's topic - Yes vampire doing a rally, especially the first time, is all about experience and not just winning. I do not know who you spoke with at Northern Motorsport but AFAIK engine guard is not mandatory but recommended option. On personal note I would only use guard on Raid and not the Storm.
	() Thanks

8th November 2009, 16:11	#43
vampire BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: "Calcutta" Posts: 63 Thanked: 11 Times	Guys Project canceled. Just too many people are advising against it. Guess got to wait till I get myself some other car. Lets see though Thank You all for guiding me and giving all of us an idea regarding the topic. We can continue discussing if anyone else is interested or Mods can close the thread if they feel so. GODSPEED
	() Thanks

8th November 2009, 19:41	#44
MileCruncher Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: MH01 Posts: 4,235 Thanked: 592 Times View My Garage	Rahul, I suggest you take this as the first steps towards rallying. May be you can prepare through this year and take your steed (whichever it is ) for Raid this year. Don't Give up!!! Cheers
	() Thanks

9th November 2009, 14:12	#45
vampire BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: "Calcutta" Posts: 63 Thanked: 11 Times	AB Its crazy man. The world's just filled up with people who find reasons to not do something. ANyways IMO raid is tougher than the desert right? what do you guys feel?
	() Thanks