[Mithrandir]

Very interesting and thought provoking post. Cris Sacca (one of the early investors in Uber) once said that personal vehicles will become a thing of the past in US very soon. Considering the ever rising popularity of Uber (and other taxi hailing apps), his statement seems to be realistic.
This fact may be hard to digest for us motorheads. But the new-gen certainly has more practical approach towards life. When we were growing up, cars were considered to be a symbol of wealth and status. But now its just a mode of travel. So when it is just a matter of traveling from A to B, millennials find cheaper alternatives like Uber more attractive. Those who still don't want to give up the fun of driving may use self-drive rentals.

[Cesc]

So here is a personal example - one that is across time and geographies.

I am a car crazy person and a couple of years ago moved from India to US. I still have my Skoda Laura 1.8T back in India and haven't bought any car in US. Even though the first thing I was looking to do before I landed up here was to buy a car. The reasons for not buying are interesting to note - even for myself - and can give an understanding of the thought process of others like me.

Born in the 80s I bought my first car soon after i landed my first job in 2007. As others have pointed out earlier in this thread car ownership still had some aspirational value till then. Over the next 8-9 years I graduated from a Zen to Honda City to Skoda Octavia to Mercedes and then back to Octy vRs and finally Laura 1.8T. I was looking to buy a hot car after coming to the US. My company provided me with a corporate apartment for initial 2 months that was within walking distance to office. I got hooked to that convenience and ended up leasing an apartment in the same building after that 2 month period. I kept pushing my car purchase out because of the following reasons:

a) I have a zipcar membership and there are 3 of those within a 5 minute walking distance from my apartment - including one that is literally bang outside my door. For any small time needs I quickly book a zipcar - with fuel and insurance included and for rates as low as $8-9 an hour it works out well.
b) For one way travel needs there is always Uber/Lyft.
c) For my weekend travel needs I go and take a look at the 3 car rental companies that are again 5 minutes walk from my apartment. I get a good selection of cars to choose from and can choose according to the situation.
d) For any of my fancy driving needs - car rental companies these days rent anything from a Chevy Spark to a AMG Merc. When I am in the mood I go and pick up a fancy set of wheels from the rental lots - all the managers know me by now and I have picked up Jaguars for as low as 40 bucks a day. You would be surprised about what you may find in a rental car lot!
e) Car ownership has zero aspirational value now and even for car enthusiasts like me the costs and hassles (insurance, maintenance, parking) they come with are a serious consideration towards the decision to buy one.

All in all - the transport scenario is much more versatile and flexible these days negating the 'need' to own a car. This in a country where car ownership is seen as essential. If I want I can buy some really nice cars because I have the finances to do that but its a choice I have made for now. I may still buy one - but for nearly 2 years I have not felt that I cant do without one.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by Mithrandir

This fact may be hard to digest for us motorheads. But the new-gen certainly has more practical approach towards life. When we were growing up, cars were considered to be a symbol of wealth and status.

I certainly get what you're saying and I also understand that you're of the same school of thought as I, but I hardly think that this "2016" generation (because UBER started to explode only as late as early 16') is practical by any means. If anything they live in a virtual-reality world, everything is swipe-tap and arrives at their doorstep, not my type of life at all.

I consider driving as a skill, like walking, swimming etc, a critical skill. No UBER driver has anywhere close to the skills that I have when it comes to driving, to me its cringe-worthy how they change lanes, change gears, don't follow appropriate speeds over bumps and humps etc.. I call even the highest rated UBERs mediocre at best and many times I'm clutching at my seat-belts in the back when they do a harsh braking to avoid collision and trust me it happens, I was in an accident 2 months back and it was pretty bad, there was substantial injury to the victim motorist and I fell from the backseat into the rear footwell sideways due to the g-forces. The driver asked me to flee and he rushed to calm the crowd down and offer help. When I drive myself I feel more relaxed and in-control and that matters to me.

Cabs are fine for the occasional jaunt and for places which are crowded, they are just an alternative mode of travel and not travel by itself. UBER suits Americans with their big cars like BMWs and other lesser D-Segment sedans like Elantra, Forte, Sonata, Civic etc. Indian taxis? Over 50% of them rattle like they're hollow.

Driving is cool, owning a car is cool.. those won't change.

[Tanmay K]

Being a "millennial" myself and a large portion of my network being people from my age-group, I can concur with the article in the original post.

A good portion of the younger people I know don't even know how to drive. They want to learn driving, yes, but the availability of alternatives like Uber/Ola and metro/decent public transport only reduces the motivation to learn. Not to mention, it is incredibly difficult to learn driving in dense, unmanaged and chaotic traffic in all of the bigger Indian cities.

The younger people who do know how to drive, a huge portion of them are happy buying cars with sluggish and boring automatic transmissions just so that driving becomes less of a chore.

But then there is also a small number of people who love driving and owning cars. Millennials today, on an average, have higher disposable income at their age to spend on cars and fancy modifications/accessories than previous generations.

Are you going to go off-roading in an Ola Swift Dzire? Or will you be taking your Wagor R from Uber to the local race track?

[Mafia]

There are a few more not so obvious reason s to not own a car.
Getting a license in any developed country is a big deal. Needs time and investment. Places like UK have crazy amounts as insurance payments for young drivers.
Urban driving many a times is as slow as public transport.
You have to be careful while driving or you risk fines and accidents.

And lastly, parking. Can you find space to park? and when you do it probably costs as much as taking public transport anyway

[Jeroen]

A few thoughts/comments

Originally Posted by Mafia

There are a few more not so obvious reason s to not own a car.
Getting a license in any developed country is a big deal. Needs time and investment.

It really depends, actually there are many countries where any adult of a certain age and with a valid driver license and a certain minimum number years of experience can teach a student driver. So a dad can teach his kids at basicly no cost. For instance in the UK.

In my home country, the Netherlands, it is very expensive. You have to go via an official driving school. Most novice driver will take anywhere from 40-80 hours tuition. That will cost several thousands of Euro's. Still, most parents tend to give it to their kids when they turn 17 or 18 in the past. All three of our children were given driving lessions on their 18th birthday.

Originally Posted by Mafia

Places like UK have crazy amounts as insurance payments for young drivers.

Yes, especially if you want a fully comprehensive scheme, but than again in most Western Europe the insurance is very different from UK schemes. Third party only is really cheap in just about most countries.

Originally Posted by Mafia

Urban driving many a times is as slow as public transport.

True to the extend that public transport in many major town is actually faster then driving.

Originally Posted by Mafia

You have to be careful while driving or you risk fines and accidents.

I dont think that is a concern to anybody in Europe. Just sticking to the law isn't unusual at all and does not come at any special consideration.

Originally Posted by Mafia

And lastly, parking. Can you find space to park? and when you do it probably costs as much as taking public transport anyway

In many European major towns parking is hugely expensive. And very often, even for residents, simply not possible. Many town have permits for its residence, but that never quarantees you a parking place either.

Jeroen

[blackasta]

I guess people living in the city proper has a lesser affinity of learning to drive/ride (easy access to various modes of transportation) than the ones in rural / semi-urban areas.
As for me, I wanted to learn how to drive when I reached the legal age, but my dad was out on his transferable job for quite a while around that time, so I only got to learn how to drive once I was 22.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Most novice driver will take anywhere from 40-80 hours tuition. That will cost several thousands of Euro's.

- that's a pretty steep bill , and are those mandatory hours?
IIRC I spent a few hundred USD, and 7 hrs training.
Enough to get past the road test to grab the DL.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by blackasta

Shockked: - that's a pretty steep bill , and are those mandatory hours?

IIRC I spent a few hundred USD, and 7 hrs training.

Enough to get past the road test to grab the DL.

No, the Hours aren't mandatory.
In the Netherlands you have to take a theoretical test first. You will really need to study for it. Then there is the practical test. Here an examinator will sit next to you as you drive. The test will take about an hour and they will try and get you to do as much as possible. Including motorway driving and special skills. Which means pulling away from a slope without rolling back., a three point turn in a narrow street. Reversing around a corner safely etc.

Also, student drivers can only drive in a car with dual control and a certified driving instructor. During the test you will have to show that you know how to drive safely and confidently. So, waiting too long at a junction might get you a fail as well as abruptly pulling into the traffic without proper caution.

Your driving instructor will guide you and tell you when to apply for the test. Only about 60-70% of applicants pass first time. And of course if you fail you need to have more driving tuition to fine tune your skills and stay in practice for the next test.

So it's a pretty serious process, takes a lot of time and money. You can't bypass it. Rich or poor all go through the same process

Jeroen

Jeroen

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

So it's a pretty serious process, takes a lot of time and money. You can't bypass it. Rich or poor all go through the same process

An hour long road test is indeed serious business - guess I got it pretty easy.

Also - I have heard that getting a DL is the toughest in the Nordic countries - guess you would obviously have much deeper knowledge on that.

But it's from those Nordic countries, especially Finland, that we get champion drivers like Keke Rosberg, his son Nico (though he raced under the German flag), Mika Hakkinen, Kimi Raikkonen, Valtteri Bottas and the likes.
So the high cost to learn and difficult road to licensing maybe is not deterrent enough for the Finnish youth !!

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by blackasta

An hour long road test is indeed serious business - guess I got it pretty easy.

Also - I have heard that getting a DL is the toughest in the Nordic countries - guess you would obviously have much deeper knowledge on that.

But it's from those Nordic countries, especially Finland, that we get champion drivers like Keke Rosberg, his son Nico (though he raced under the German flag), Mika Hakkinen, Kimi Raikkonen, Valtteri Bottas and the likes.
So the high cost to learn and difficult road to licensing maybe is not deterrent enough for the Finnish youth !!

I also think all these millenials tend to have driving licenses, they just dont buy cars.

[GTO]

After talking to millennials, I also realised they have something we didn't = DEBT .

- I think education was fairly priced (if not cheap) 2 decades back. But it is rather expensive today. Many millennials are carrying education loans on their heads.

- Debt is also much easily available to them, as compared to what the situation was in the 90s. Only the "rich" had a credit card then. Today, card companies give them out to anyone with a pulse.

- I don't remember ever using the term "personal loan" in the 90s. It is everywhere today.

When you are already burdened with debt, would you really take a 10-lakh loan for a car that most of your generation doesn't care about? And you don't need either, thanks to Uber & Ola?

[navin]

Originally Posted by GTO

When you are already burdened with debt, would you really take a 10-lakh loan for a car that most of your generation doesn't care about? And you don't need either, thanks to Uber & Ola?

My son is 17 and so are his friends. They don't view a car as a possession but rather as a service. For them the reasons not to bother to even learn to drive are plenty but mostly it boils down to:

"Uber/OIa/kaali-peeli taxis are plentiful why have the stress of traffic when you can be peacefully Instagram/WhatsApp your friends in that same time."

We learned to drive because that was our path to independence. They have their independence without having to deal with the stress of traffic or parking or car maintenance.

In addition in many cases our ego / self worth was tied into the car we had. Now that has shifted to the clothes you wear ands the food you eat and the places you have to be seen at. I don't know what else explains the rise of brands such as Canadian Goose, Vans, Moncler, etc. Where as we were happy in Levis and any old t-shirt, brands like Gucci, Chanel, Louis Vuitton, Hermès, Tiffany, Dior, Armani, Prada are not uncommon in college campuses today.

[swiftLife]

Originally Posted by GTO

After talking to millennials, I also realised they have something we didn't = DEBT
...
I don't remember ever using the term "personal loan" in the 90s. It is everywhere today.

This is so much visible in today's advertisements as well. I was shocked to see personal loan ads for things like foreign holiday, destination wedding and the likes. Utterly preposterous IMO.

To make things even worse, we have Bajaj Finserv EMI Card. Openly encouraging people to live on EMIs.

No wonder today's youth is under debt.

[romeomidhun]

Times change, and so are the prestige symbols and available entertainment options.

Earlier days, cars were a symbol of status as only a few could afford it. Now, many can afford it.

Earlier there were not much entertainments-on-the-go. You should visit certain people, go to places like beach, play grounds, cinema halls etc., or drive your car. Nowadays, with the smart phones and other social media, you can entertain yourself at any time - whether it is people, places, games, chatting etc.

Earlier, the rental options were costlier than owning, driving and maintaining a car. Now the case is reversed.

Technology made the new generation smarter. The old generation is yet to catch up.

But, for me, there is nothing as entertaining as driving my car.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by GTO

After talking to millennials, I also realised they have something we didn't = DEBT .

- I think education was fairly priced (if not cheap) 2 decades back. But it is rather expensive today. Many millennials are carrying education loans on their heads.

- Debt is also much easily available to them, as compared to what the situation was in the 90s. Only the "rich" had a credit card then. Today, card companies give them out to anyone with a pulse.

- I don't remember ever using the term "personal loan" in the 90s. It is everywhere today.

+1.

I have several friends who are happy with the Ola, Uber and Zoomcars, along with an Activa for errands. Those who are slightly adventurous, they are looking at a KTM or a Enfield. They love the flexibility and options that they get by hiring or renting - bike, car, house, furniture and appliances. They don't want to be "attached" to a place or thing.

But the kind of debt they take is rather frightening.

Few examples:
A friend was/is paying 80+% of his net salary to repay loans for a 55-in smart TV, a high end bike, branded clothes, home loan, car loan and so on. Every time a loan is repaid, he looks for the next dream item that he had been wanting to buy.

Another friend took a personal loan of few lakhs to get married, followed by a few lakhs of personal loan for that mandatory foreign trip, followed by few lakhs of personal loan for his wife's studies, followed by few lakhs of personal loan every 2-3 years to get the latest bike he loves to ride and then so on.

A beginner in a job doesn't mind spending a lakh on the latest iPhone and then flaunting the latest AirPods while walking around the office.

Spend and repay is the theme, instead of save and spend.