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Old 6th September 2018, 12:48   #1
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Default Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

Thought of sharing this Ted video I came across , this is a ted talk by Chris Bangle. He has been the chief designer of BMW group , one of the most influential person in automotive design world.

https://www.ted.com/talks/chris_bang...rt?language=en

In this video he compares Car design with mainstream art, he thinks car design hasn’t got its dues and has been often not considered as a form of art ,rather unfairly so.

In my opinion art is any visual object with emotional , beauty and creative appeal, I agree with Chris that an Automobile fits the definition of art and much more, what do you all think?
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Old 6th September 2018, 13:50   #2
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

Automobile design is definitely art. Getting a car to look great, new and at the same time, the design be functional is definitely an art.

Its kind of a marketing video but a great watch.

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Old 6th September 2018, 15:21   #3
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

When done right - it is! Checkmate to anyone who thinks otherwise -

Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle-images-21.jpeg

Nowadays such passion in designing timeless masterpieces are rarely seen though!
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Old 6th September 2018, 15:57   #4
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

Art is imaginative and not confined to any constraints - the basic two thnigs that separate it from "designs". Car/automobile/aircraft etc are designed with numerous constraints and set parameters to be considered while designing (like, Drag coefficient, crash-worthiness, emergency exit norms, radar cross-section/surface area, aerodynamics etc). An artist who is not allowed to fly off their imaginations as much as possible, are designers. They become professionals (like portrait painters).

Automobile designing is a lower form of art (Automobile designers are artists, who are not allowed to be so). Somewhat like Architects.

Last edited by Nav-i-gator : 6th September 2018 at 15:59.
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Old 6th September 2018, 16:22   #5
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

Yes Rightly said, we have seen many design blunders , not naming any one of them :-) as its subjective at the end of the day!
Its beauty of car , the one you shared , can you share the model and make ?
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Old 6th September 2018, 20:15   #6
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

Automobile design, just like any other design (furniture, cutlery, fashion....) has strong art-connection, but it is not an artform by itself.
Design: It involves problem solving, has a utility value, it is always against a defined 'design brief', should have acceptance from the target audience etc
Art: Spontaneous, no boundaries, self expression, artsist normally doesn't try to please anyone etc

But then, without an 'artist eye', one cannot become a designer and similarly without 'sense of design' art can become unsellable
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Old 7th September 2018, 00:29   #7
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

This depends on many factors.
The other day I was at this car museum gawking at the Ferrari Daytona, wondering if this car is one of the most beautiful objects ever made.
Art is something that is meant to stir the emotions of anyone who is experiencing it and yes cars do that to quite an extent.
When you look at a pretty car you enjoy the beauty of the aesthetics, like a classic sculpture.
When you drive a car with a great engine you experience a high similar to a powerful performance art and;
When you listen to an AMG V8, your ears give you that high, like a live music concert.
So Cars can be art and not just from the aesthetics point of view. That Ferrari Daytona now is just a art piece in fact, too valuable to be driven around and used, instead it just sits now in garages or museums, it is not a mode of transport anymore.

I study transportation design and Chris Bangles is my courses director, have had some great interactions with him and he did touch upon this very topic in the last meeting our section had.
But personally, I feel that for something to be art it has to have no purpose than to just be art, no function. So some cars are indeed art but most mass market ones, even something like an Alfa 8C is not really art.
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:43   #8
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
But personally, I feel that for something to be art it has to have no purpose than to just be art, no function. So some cars are indeed art but most mass market ones, even something like an Alfa 8C is not really art.
Could it be that 'art' is not a differentiating factor for automobile companies anymore?

I guess the world saw a big transformation in the late 70s and early 80s, where competition forced companies to drop some passion in search of numbers. We all have heard stories of companies trying to build and market dreams on wheels - most cars were a showcase of their talent and engineering prowess. In the modern competitive world, most cars are designed to be better than the competition, but not too much as to feel very different either, so as to fall out of set templates for each segment and category of vehicles.

Not to mention that the market is becoming very fast paced these days, that companies really have to focus on beating competition for a short period, untill someone else catches up. No one can afford to have elaborate design phase and time-to-market, and technological advances mean that some other player might just run away with the market share during the period.

Competition is better for us consumers? May be not always!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
Automobile designing is a lower form of art (Automobile designers are artists, who are not allowed to be so)
Thats like saying - Photography is a lower form of art, because of Instagram. No offence.

I have utmost respect for the likes of Giugiaro, Pininfarina, Bertone etc - and I dont see why (atleast some of) their creations were not art, just because the modern day professionals are forced into creating sub-4m designs and such constrained creations.
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Old 7th September 2018, 03:47   #9
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

Quote:
Originally Posted by car FANATICUS View Post
Thought of sharing this Ted video I came across , this is a ted talk by Chris Bangle. He has been the chief designer of BMW group , one of the most influential person in automotive design world.
I do find this somewhat ironic that we are discussing this based on a TED talk by Bangle. He has to be one of the most polarizing design directors of our times. Cars that are considered ugly, are often referred to being "hit with the Bangle stick".
That being said, here's a piece written by Chris Harris for Jalopnik about Bangle's designs that makes for an entertaining read: Link

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
When done right - it is! Checkmate to anyone who thinks otherwise
Nowadays such passion in designing timeless masterpieces are rarely seen though!
Such a wonderful example to pick . Funnily enough, Jaguar design under Ian Callum might be the closest to the high bar you have set.
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Old 7th September 2018, 05:52   #10
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

I dont think the answer to this is a universal yes or no. The answer to this question will be different for a man on the street to a art gallery curator. I am reminded of the TopGear episode where Jeremy quoted Tate gallery curator while reviewing the Alfa Romeo 8C and he said "For something to be art, it can have no other purpose than itself". And I kind of agree with it. Yes we can be emotive about car design or a particular car, but is it art, perhaps not.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 7th September 2018 at 05:58.
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Old 7th September 2018, 06:27   #11
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

Yes, I strongly believe so. I have a few die-cast models in our living room instead of any paintings or sculptures. And I can look at them all day long.

Jokes aside, the designers are often compelled to put function over form. Performance and practicality cannot be ignored no matter how niche the product is. And that hampers the design. Even a Bugatti Chiron needs to accommodate those aspects.

I guess practicality is easier to relate to for everyone. The most practical cars are often the most boring in terms of design and attitude. The performance factors are aerodynamics, plumbing, center of gravity, weight, durability, strength, safety etc. Look at a modern F1 car for instance. So ugly it looks. That's purely function over form.

And that's also why these older classics look so good. The designers were not this constrained and often could give precedence to form over function. Maybe that's why Chris Bangle quit BMW and started making furniture. Just kidding! I am a big fan of his cars. I recall how I couldn't stomach the E60 M5 when it first broke cover! It looked so ugly. But all that changed once I saw the car in person. All those details and lines just came together so well. Respect!

Coming back to the point, it is not to say we don't have gorgeous cars being made nowadays. Take a look at the stunning Alfa Romeo GTV Coupe!

Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle-alfaromeogtvillochristianschulte1530629520.jpg

It really will make one weak at the knees. That really is art right there! Please note this is a rendering. But the real thing shouldn't look much different! A coupe based on the brilliant Giulia Quadrifoglio has to be irresistible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by car FANATICUS View Post
Its beauty of car , the one you shared , can you share the model and make ?
I guess you are talking about the Jaguar E Type shared above. It is considered one of the most beautiful cars of all times.
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Old 7th September 2018, 10:20   #12
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

According to Google'bhai, the definition of art is:
Quote:
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
That can definitely be applied to cars. Whether cheap cars or the exotic, styling is a big, big emotional draw. And you could say that more people appreciate the styling of a car than say, a painting.

Anyone who thinks the following aren't forms of art is blind.

Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle-1.jpg
Source

Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle-2.jpg
Source

Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle-3.jpg
Source

Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle-4.jpg
Source

Or closer home...

Source (PICS : Tastefully Modified Cars in India)

No painting or sculpture ever had this effect on kids:
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Old 7th September 2018, 10:22   #13
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Thats like saying - Photography is a lower form of art, because of Instagram. No offence.

I have utmost respect for the likes of Giugiaro, Pininfarina, Bertone etc - and I dont see why (atleast some of) their creations were not art, just because the modern day professionals are forced into creating sub-4m designs and such constrained creations.
Well, I was implying quite opposite to what you are giving as an example. Instagram helps to create "artistic" look to completely normal pictures, while automobile designing is constraining for an artist.

No offence to anyone, but my guess is that all automobile designers would love to call themselves artists, but how many artists would love to become automobile designers? I mean, Automobile designers can be artists, but the profession itself is not an art.

In the same vein, are civil engineers artists too? They can be, but the profession itself is more of a science, guided by laws, checks and geometries.

However, I would add, an artist is someone who can immerse the viewers/listeners into his/her own world of imaginations, in a way that it stimulates one's senses and make them believe in unbelievable, think the unthinkable, and relish the beauty of what might otherwise be impossible in reality. In that sense, an automobile design can be a piece of art for many of us- people who are i love with things on wheels.
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Old 7th September 2018, 10:25   #14
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

I do NOT appreciate traditional art (paintings, sculptures etc) nor find it beautiful. That's not the case with cars though - I find beauty in vintage cars, classic 80s cars, sports cars, SUVs, sedans, trucks and even a bus!

Automotive design is NOT art. It is magic!

Last edited by smartcat : 7th September 2018 at 10:27.
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Old 7th September 2018, 18:55   #15
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Default re: Is Automotive Design an art? TED talk by Chris Bangle

That's like asking if cooking is an art in culinary cannoisseur's club ! Ofcourse Yes and we could easily justify our stand. With advent of sensors , analytics and data driven design principles art has married science for good.
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