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Old 22nd May 2007, 22:55   #31
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wasnt there another suzuki called a twin engine or something that used to be good on the rally any info on that.

Last edited by pawan : 22nd May 2007 at 22:59.
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Old 22nd May 2007, 22:58   #32
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wasnt there another suzuki called a tin engine or something that used to be good on the rally any info on that.
Yeah we have that in Bangalore.. One of our very senior Bhpiian drives it.. Also called as Stuart's Baleno.

*Flame suit on as v1p3r says*

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Old 22nd May 2007, 23:05   #33
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Just to show that power isn't everything, have aread through this article.

The early 1980s saw a category created specifically for manufacturers who wanted to show off their engineering capabilities; Group B was born. The Group B rally supercars quickly evolved into 500+ horsepower, four-wheel-drive chest-thumping beasts with space frames, kevlar bodywork, and many other high-tech pieces. The cars reached a point where many wondered if the cars had reached a point where the drivers could not fully control them. For instance, the Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road. Henri Toivonen drove an S4 around Estoril, the Portuguese Grand Prix circuit, so quickly that he would have qualified sixth for the 1986 Portuguese Grand Prix. Nigel Mansell sampled a Peugeot 205 T16 and said it could out-accelerate his F1 car. And, perhaps most impressive (frightening?), the driver's reaction times were cut in half compared with previous rally cars. The Group B rally cars and their pilots were the stuff of which legends are made."

Source: The Group B rally cars - Home Page

The GTI W12 Concept with a W12 motor and all the best bits and pieces could only do so much!! But is still slower compared to some of these crazy group B cars built nearly 30 years ago.

Guess things have become slower BUTTTT more manageable and i am sure that they have delibrately held back on the GTI W12 concepts performance.

All for a good cause is all i have to say

Moral of the story: Speed Kills - PERIOD!!!
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Old 23rd May 2007, 03:19   #34
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Pawan, you're referring to the Pikes Peak special Vitara/Escudo with 2 V6 engines with close to 1000 bhp, right? Nobuhiro Tajima's own monster. That's a Suzuki to own.

Nothing to beat the Pug T16s and the homologation special road cars which were built for the public in the 80s. 700 bhp, AWD, under 1 tonne. Ferrari, what Ferrari?!
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Old 23rd May 2007, 04:55   #35
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Another important reason that actually triggered the ban was the death of a world champion rally driver (I think it was Hannu Mikkola in the Lancia, though could be wrong) in one of the rallies.
Just saw this: it was Henri Toivonen in the Lancia Delta S4. Poor Mikkola, he's still very much around. Just read an article (TG I think) with him driving the original Audi Quattro on its 25th (?) anniversary.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 06:43   #36
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A little off-topic, but here's an excellent video telling the short story of the Group B:

WRC GROUP B Audi S1 - Google Video

Towards the end, it gets very interesting with the sounds of the S1 quattro. Three sounds are very distinctive: that 5 cylinder howl, the backfire, and the sound of the wastegate opening (that's right, no gay BOVs here).

The W12 GTi is made in the same spirit I'm sure: Audi and VW are one & the same, Audi doesnt have a hatchback so its only logical that the W12 is put into the GTi. I hope VW makes this car one day. To give all the Ferraris and Corvettes a scare. Not that a turbo VR6 is far off in performance though.

Last edited by ananthkamath : 23rd May 2007 at 06:45.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 09:08   #37
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Pawan, you're referring to the Pikes Peak special Vitara/Escudo with 2 V6 engines with close to 1000 bhp, right? Nobuhiro Tajima's own monster. That's a Suzuki to own.
yes this is the one forgot the name read about it some time back was a amazing car.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 11:46   #38
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Nothing to beat the Pug T16s and the homologation special road cars which were built for the public in the 80s. 700 bhp, AWD, under 1 tonne. Ferrari, what Ferrari?!
Hardly, the Pug T16 was only 200-odd bhp in Street form & had horrid turbo lag. Primary reason why it's not as revered as the 205 GTi.

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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Just saw this: it was Henri Toivonen in the Lancia Delta S4. Poor Mikkola, he's still very much around.
Sorry for the bungle up, like I mentioned then I could be wrong & I was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
A little off-topic, but here's an excellent video telling the short story of the Group B:

Towards the end, it gets very interesting with the sounds of the S1 quattro. Three sounds are very distinctive: that 5 cylinder howl, the backfire, and the sound of the wastegate opening (that's right, no gay BOVs here).
You should also see another video of the Audi going full-pelt with Walter Rorhl on the wheel. There is some in-car footage & his feet movements on the pedals make it look like as if he's bloody tap dancing on them!! Also showed what a huge problem crowd-control was in those days.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 19:50   #39
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Looks like the spirit of the Metro 6R4 is coming back, albeit in a VW, shame it will not be built for sale.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 22:38   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
Three sounds are very distinctive: that 5 cylinder howl, the backfire, and the sound of the wastegate opening (that's right, no gay BOVs here).

Audi doesnt have a hatchback
I can't be certain, but I think WRC cars are not allowed to use BOVs. And again, I think Audi does produce an A3.

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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Hardly, the Pug T16 was only 200-odd bhp in Street form & had horrid turbo lag. Primary reason why it's not as revered as the 205 GTi.
Ok, I'm not sure which Pug it is, but I'm sure it's 700 hp and AWD, a homologation special. Made it to the top 100 sportscars/supercars of all time, I think it was Auto, Motor und Sport's list.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 22:52   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
.... Audi doesnt have a hatchback so its only logical that the W12 is put into the GTi. I hope VW makes this car one day. To give all the Ferraris and Corvettes a scare. Not that a turbo VR6 is far off in performance though.
I really hope they do . Audi does have a hatch the A3. But I guess you mean in some other way??
Either way the Golf is more of an icon so maybe thats why they chose it!
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Old 23rd May 2007, 23:52   #42
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Ok, I'm not sure which Pug it is, but I'm sure it's 700 hp and AWD, a homologation special. Made it to the top 100 sportscars/supercars of all time, I think it was Auto, Motor und Sport's list.
A supermini Pug with 700bhp which is Road legal???? You're mad!!

I sincerely don't think any such version was ever made. Could you find the AMS list by any chance?
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Old 23rd May 2007, 23:55   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I can't be certain, but I think WRC cars are not allowed to use BOVs. And again, I think Audi does produce an A3.
audi also produces an A2 super mini. now that is one car that's truly deserving od such an engine
(i'm kidding)

Quote:
Ok, I'm not sure which Pug it is, but I'm sure it's 700 hp and AWD, a homologation special. Made it to the top 100 sportscars/supercars of all time, I think it was Auto, Motor und Sport's list.
could it possibly be the 405 T16? the one in which Ari Vatanen set the pikes peak record?

edit: nevermind, the 405s also had 200hp, with 220 on overbost.

Last edited by heelntoe : 24th May 2007 at 00:01.
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Old 24th May 2007, 02:02   #44
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Will look for it.

Ananth, Audi have themselves proclaimed the new S5 to be the spiritual successor to the S1.
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Old 24th May 2007, 02:17   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heelntoe View Post
could it possibly be the 405 T16? the one in which Ari Vatanen set the pikes peak record?

edit: nevermind, the 405s also had 200hp, with 220 on overbost.
But the 405 T16 was never launched as a road-legal car.
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