That was a long an interesting read, and like before i do agree with some of what you typed, I feel i made a mistake in how i got my point across. So, Lets Recap:-
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Day Amien, I have gone through the whole GT-R vs Corvette plenty of times and I can pretty much give you an unbiased opinion.
Nissan did a fantastic job at creating a pig that can fly, literaly, its fat and it flies through cornors like nobodies business, but people forget that its not because of the aero or awd(may be bcz of the sophisticated awd), its because of the perfect computer sitting between that great powerplant and that awesome all wheel drivetrain. 90% of what GT-R can do is not you or the car, but the computer calculating and putting the power into the right wheels at perfect time. |
Different reasons make the same performance less impressive? My argument was regarding the car, the electronics and the driver as one, obviously. Trying to measure a car without one of its best features(the electronics in this) is pointless, you might as well be suggesting a car that excells because of its low weight to take a weight penalty.
Quote:
If you think low drag co-efficiency means anything, then you need to check on your physics, like i had to, its co-effeciency of drag times the frontal area that tell you the aero story and in the case of GT-R that would be a large number.
|
I DO think it means "something" . Even though i know that drag is also proportional to things you have no control over such as air density, you're really going to believe Nissan spent 2 years in a wind tunnel working on something that "doesnt mean anything"? My point is, generating downforce in all 4 corners IS something that will, and does make a difference, If that's what you're asking....
Quote:
Nissan especially designed awesome tires to go with this beast, they threw in 7 yrs of development into the program and had the car run the nurburgring a godzillian times tweaking every little thing,
|
Yes they had awesome Bridgestone Potenza's (filled with nitrogen
), a computer, an amazing drivetrain etc working for them... more i read this line it sounds like a complaint. A car manufacture works hard on their product, is that bad? The next line answeres my question.
Quote:
thats how they ended up with a car that is so easy to drive on a track that a fool could do it.
|
Now i know what the real problem is. You want a car that is interactive, fun, (with a stick shift im assuming?)
You don't want a car that you think will credit better lap times to your cars computer rather than the skill of its driver.
You want to experience the perfect heal-toe. Basically, you want a car that you can drive rather than a car that drives you.
My suggestion, Get a Ford Model T I mean, fuel injectors are pretty "high technology", and they were a big deal once upon a time. At this point you might feel im being sarcastic, dont misunderstand for that is not my intention. Let me ask you a question, Does the GTR find the proper line for you? Does it tell you when to brake and when to get on the gas? Fact is, the better driver will still win in most cases of equal car competition. This car merely takes some of the load off you so that you can focuss on doing other things better. The way it ALWAYS has been.
Quote:
Now take for instance the time on the ring 7:38 to 7:29, this drastic drop was due to multitude of reasons, Ring was re-surfaced(which probably accounts for 3-5 secs), they used better all summer tires(non-runflats, accounting for atleast 3 sec), dry patch(1-1.5sec) and tweaked suspension(1-1.5 sec).
|
Basically, The tried to provide optimal conditions for a track which is a benchmark for performance all around the world. Asking chevy/competitors to do the same would be better than giving a breakup of where the nissan shaved off some of its seconds.
Now that i have said this, and since you mentioned the corvette(one of my all time favs), i will tell you this little fact.
Quote:
GM didnt spend 7 yrs tuning the car on the ring, they didnt make godzillian runs on the ring, they didnt find a perfect day to run the car, they ran them on the worst available tires possible for a sports car of its caliber, they never went back to retry with revised suspension, they gave the car into the hands of a pro who was going to drive the car for the first time on a track he had never known(4 laps), jonny boy(the other C6R driver said, he could do it faster) plus the car doesnt get assisted by much of the computer(as it doesnt have a sophisticated ECU in the heart of the powerplant),
|
Damn, just imagine if the chevy had perfect conditions, it'd put the Zonda to shame. Seriously, why don't they get all this right and prove their point? Apparently, not willing to give a 100% to a benchmark is a good quality, and having a sophisticated ECU is a bad one?(omg! cheating!! :P )
Quote:
given all these factors, the difference that you really point out is meaningless against the vette.
|
True. Its as meaningless as someone ranting another for making a better car and not following the same weight reduction+horsepower route.
Quote:
Just look at the plain physics when computers can't do squot, straighline acceleration times and speed, you will be amazed how left behind the poor GT-R will feel in a 0-100 or a 0-150 run, it will be left in the dry. Not that either cars are straightline only cars, but by pure dynamics GT-R is great due to 3 things, AWD, Computer & tires.
|
This last area, Unfortunately loses all credibility as far as im concerned. So you will compare a GTR in turf it was not intended to excell? Then you contradict your statement in the next line by saying that this is not a measure of true performance... (why mention it then?) why not mention 0-60 times when they mean equally nothing? And then, it's topped off with "the GTR is great due to AWD/computers and tires" Yes, We know that, Your point being?
Quote:
Now going back to the NSX, i feel it will stomp on the GT-R and will be a far rewarding car to drive, I know what i will get into as soon as I am bored of my GT-R.
|
Sure, it may(may being the key word here. But when i said "i'd put money on the GTR" did that translate into "stomp its ***"? Doubt it. Regardless, IF it does "stomp" the GTR, And i hope it does because that will make 2008 a very important year in automative history, It will most likely be on the same facts that allows the GTR to excell. Thats what these cars allow you to do, Push them to their limits every time, so much so that it gets boring, and if it does, Then i believe you bought the wrong car. You dont strenghten your core to compete in an arm wrestling match, But it can help a bit.
Quote:
As for the pricing, well it will be due to the limited quantieis of the NSX that it will be expensive, else it would have also been made in the 70-80k range. Also just wait and see, the GT-R's price is an introductory price, it will shoot in price over its lifespan twice as fast as a regular car just like the Z06 did, fully loaded Z06 in 06 was 70k, now its 82.5 in 08
|
So, the ability of Honda to be unable to manufacture a car like the NSX is mass is a good quality? Heh., I know, You're saying the price is for exclusivity, But does that really have anything to do with the final price to performance ratio? I never said the GTR was a better looking car/more fun/better lineage/higher social standing than any other car. What im saying is, The GTR is the most brutally competitive car, with a price to performance ration bar none.
The fact remains, For as much acclaim the GTR gets, Tt deserves much much more. But when someone so much as lists the reasons for this, The following happens:-
Quote:
Its good to be a fan of a particular car, but its better to be an informed fan |
When your own post seems to be biased,
Quote:
Now that i have said this, and since you mentioned the corvette(one of my all time favs), I will tell you this little fact.
|
I would say its rather unwise to accuse someone else of fanboysim, Just because they sound Pro-Nissan and have a GTR as their avatar "
"
Quote:
BTW i agree that the NSX should look different than the prototype they had shown, it should be exotic looking much like the LF-A(wow!!). Lets see how it turns out, i doubt i will be disappointed..
|
Seriously. Every guy whose in anticipation of the NSX is hoping the same thing, I really really hope Honda listens to public opinion
.
As long as you know what you're looking for, You will never be disappointed